Shades of Gray - Gel Coat That Is

[CaptainKickback]

I'm having trouble getting several shades of grey gel coat for my project boat. I am hoping someone can tell me why I see blue in every shade of grey they mix.

I know there are brown based grays, green based grays, blue based grays, and black based grays. I want a black based gray. Yet I see blue in every off the shelf gray and all four mixes I've had still show blue in them. The last two were better and Mrs Kickback didn't see any blue in them. I told her it was there. Had me believing I was crazy, but I also realized my eye is not that great with color. Today, we put our roll of vinyl and some vinyl samples from a boat seat manufacturer up against our color board and the blue immediately popped out.

I had told the company mixing it I wanted a black based gray. No blue.

Does anyone have experience with mixing colors, especially medium to dark grays and can tell me, is getting the blue out is impossible?

Sea ya...

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Shades of Gray - Gel Coat That Is

Well as far as I know if you mix black and white...You get Grey. Not sure how you would get any shade or hint of blue out of Black and white.

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: Shades of Gray - Gel Coat That Is

About eight or nine months ago, I bought a quart of white gel coat and a tube of black tint. I added a ton of black tint and it barely changed the white. Seems like the white is difficult to overcome. U.S. Composites told me they start from a neutral gel coat.

But I get your point. I wander if I bought a quart of black and a quart of white, if I could mix what I want. Only thing is, is there blue in the black? (my luck).

Sea ya...

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Shades of Gray - Gel Coat That Is

I'm having trouble getting several shades of grey gel coat for my project boat. I am hoping someone can tell me why I see blue in every shade of grey they mix.

Who are 'they' ???

I'd be thinking that if you got a 'stock' gray that is close to the color that you want and then also get some white and black and mix away . . .

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: Shades of Gray - Gel Coat That Is

Hey tpenfield,

"they" is my fiberglass supplier who was reported to be really good at matching gel coat colors..

What I'm looking for is insight into the color mixing process. For example, how do they make black gel coat. Do they start with white, neutral, etc. What color tints do they use to get to black? Is one of those colors blue?

Sea ya...

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Shades of Gray - Gel Coat That Is

Our BEST Gelcoat expert is Yacht Dr Send him a PM

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Shades of Gray - Gel Coat That Is

About eight or nine months ago, I bought a quart of white gel coat and a tube of black tint. I added a ton of black tint and it barely changed the white.

You will Never be able to turn White into anything other then a pastel color. Add as much red to white as you wish .. but you will only be able to get Pink out of it ..

U.S. Composites told me they start from a neutral gel coat.

Yup..thats how you make Dark colors or even lighter darker colors. You have to use Neutral gel coat. ( Looks brown but it does not affect the pigments going into it )

But I get your point. I wander if I bought a quart of black and a quart of white, if I could mix what I want. Only thing is, is there blue in the black? (my luck).

You Might be able to .. just a little white though.

There is blue in black yes..

Put a little Yellow tint in your grey and see what happens .

YD.

PS. All you Really need in your color match kit is solid Red..solid Yellow..and solid Blue. oh..and black and Purple .

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Shades of Gray - Gel Coat That Is

I found this doing some research...
to make grey gelcoat, rather mix some black pigment to clear gelcoat, and add that mix to the white gelcoat until desired shade of grey is achieved.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Shades of Gray - Gel Coat That Is

I found this doing some research...
to make grey gelcoat, rather , mix some black pigment to clear gelcoat and add that mix to the white gelcoat until desired shade of grey is achieved.

That wont work..

Like I said..if you ADD to WHITE you will not get anything other then Light colors ( pastels ).

Washing out Black pigments with Clear will only give you a very transparent black ( good if you only want to swing your color very very softly/lightly ).

Adding pigments to Clear is only going to get you a transparent color of your add. Example: If you add red to Clear it might look red real quick .. but try to spray it and you will find you have to put on 20 coats just to cover.

Never use Clear to match Anything.. You can add Clear to your mix for reasons of pigment ratios without swinging your colors when cured..

I really should do a color match how to sticky thread ..

YD.

PS. No disrespect Woody

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Shades of Gray - Gel Coat That Is

No offense taken, Just posted what I found. I KNOW You KNOW Gelcoat. I Don't!!! Just trying to help but I'll stop.

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: Shades of Gray - Gel Coat That Is

Thanks guys. All helpful. In my limited testing, I did find white gel coat (or tint) very powerful. That is, a lite went a long way to lift color and the white base could not be overcome, as Yacht Dr said.

I'll get back with my mixing guy and have him break down what he's going to do. I'll be armed with more info this time. Thanks again.

Sea ya...

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Shades of Gray - Gel Coat That Is

If you have some gray gel thats on the blue side already..try to mix a little yellow pigment.. might need a tad of red as well. You Might be able to wash the blue out of it.

YD.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Shades of Gray - Gel Coat That Is

A true black won't have any blue in it, typically it's just carbon black pigment and neutral base. There are different grades and shades of black pigment though, plus the chemistry of the base resin will affect the color. Also if the particular black (there are many colors of black and white) used by the supplier has other pigments in it, then making a true gray may be difficult. Whites may have blue and other pigments in it too, which adds to the problem.
The other problem you run into when trying to match an item made from another substance is pigments that may work in vinyl, plastic, cloth, paint, etc, may not be compatible with polyesters, so they can't be used. This results in colors that can't be matched.

Blending black and white gel coat will give the best results when doing it on your own. You can try adding other pigments to wash out the blue, but sometimes it becomes muddy or dirty looking and you need to start over.

White tint base is really no different than white gel coat and is commonly used as is.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Shades of Gray - Gel Coat That Is

I really should do a color match how to sticky thread ..

YD.

I would read that

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Shades of Gray - Gel Coat That Is

A true black won't have any blue in it

Oh yea ? ..

Blending black and white gel coat will give the best results when doing it on your own. You can try adding other pigments to wash out the blue, but sometimes it becomes muddy or dirty looking and you need to start over.

Oh yea ?

White tint base is really no different than white gel coat and is commonly used as is.

White tint is no different then gel ?? Um.. Ok..

I think you should go back to school because its BS...

Mod this post if you want .. but your full of it .. stop posting unless you know ..

YD.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Shades of Gray - Gel Coat That Is

Oh yea ? ..



Oh yea ?



White tint is no different then gel ?? Um.. Ok..

I think you should go back to school because its BS...

Mod this post if you want .. but your full of it .. stop posting unless you know ..

YD.

White tint base is just white gel coat, typically a very white white so more colors can be matched, but you need to limit the amount of TiO2 so that when other pigments are added the loading doesn't exceed the level where pigment separation starts. Tint bases are sold as is when all that's needed is a white. It's nothing more than a white gel coat.

Blacks may or may not have other pigments in them, some have no black pigment, true blacks may only have the black pigment added.
The problem is (and this goes for every color) we are asked to match a color chip of vinyl, paint, cloth, carpet, tile, porcelain, etc, which may require other pigments to get a close match. This results in blacks that aren't a true dark black, some are on the gray side (charcoal) or something else. If the retail blender chooses to buy a black that isn't a true black other pigments may be involved.


The other issue you can run into is some types of pigments change color dramatically in different types of light. So what looks good indoors looks terrible outside, or the other way around, incandescent, florescent, halogen and others may all react differently with some pigments and give a much different look..

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: Shades of Gray - Gel Coat That Is

White tint base is just white gel coat, typically a very white white so more colors can be matched, but you need to limit the amount of TiO2 so that when other pigments are added the loading doesn't exceed the level where pigment separation starts. Tint bases are sold as is when all that's needed is a white. It's nothing more than a white gel coat.

Blacks may or may not have other pigments in them, some have no black pigment, true blacks may only have the black pigment added.
The problem is (and this goes for every color) we are asked to match a color chip of vinyl, paint, cloth, carpet, tile, porcelain, etc, which may require other pigments to get a close match. This results in blacks that aren't a true dark black, some are on the gray side (charcoal) or something else. If the retail blender chooses to buy a black that isn't a true black other pigments may be involved.


The other issue you can run into is some types of pigments change color dramatically in different types of light. So what looks good indoors looks terrible outside, or the other way around, incandescent, florescent, halogen and others may all react differently with some pigments and give a much different look..

The colors I was trying to match were from the guy's Krylon (paint) cor chart. I didn't expect an exact match, but told him I wanted black based greys, no blue, brown, or green. I do now have a vinyl swatch to match, but again, not expecting exact. I just want all my greys to be compatible.

I hear you on different types of light. I saw blue right from the start, but it shows up most in sunlight. Maybe my mixer should move his shop outside. That's where boats are used anyway. Lol

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: Shades of Gray - Gel Coat That Is

By the way Yacht Dr. I would love to see a detailed sticky on mixing gel coat colors.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Shades of Gray - Gel Coat That Is

White tint base is just white gel coat, typically a very white white so more colors can be matched, but you need to limit the amount of TiO2 so that when other pigments are added the loading doesn't exceed the level where pigment separation starts. Tint bases are sold as is when all that's needed is a white. It's nothing more than a white gel coat.

Blacks may or may not have other pigments in them, some have no black pigment, true blacks may only have the black pigment added.
The problem is (and this goes for every color) we are asked to match a color chip of vinyl, paint, cloth, carpet, tile, porcelain, etc, which may require other pigments to get a close match. This results in blacks that aren't a true dark black, some are on the gray side (charcoal) or something else. If the retail blender chooses to buy a black that isn't a true black other pigments may be involved.


The other issue you can run into is some types of pigments change color dramatically in different types of light. So what looks good indoors looks terrible outside, or the other way around, incandescent, florescent, halogen and others may all react differently with some pigments and give a much different look..

Really ?

YD.

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: Shades of Gray - Gel Coat That Is

By the way guys, on my project thread, I revisited the HF spray gun (93312) with a couple of questions. Its on page 14, post 337. If you could take a look, I would appreciate it.

Sea ya...