Why not pressure treated plywood?

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ezmobee

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Re: Why not pressure treated plywood?

I don't understand this thread. The OP should not use pressure treated because it will corrode the aluminum in his boat. End of story.
:confused:
 

jasoutside

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Re: Why not pressure treated plywood?

Don't take this the wrong way guys, but I feel the original posters questions have been taken care of and we don't want this to turn into another heated plywood debate. ;) ;)


^^^^^:)
 

NSBCraig

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Re: Why not pressure treated plywood?

I use PT marine ply, as do most fiberglass boat builders these days.

You've said this before but yet I've never managed to locate one of these most, could it be cause it's not true? That's cool you use marine specific PT, but if most were using it the people making the non PT marine plywoods would be out of business now wouldn't they? Seriously I know of many high end manufactures that don't use it, so who does? We already know it's not most, so really I'd like to know who the some you know of are. You know cause that's what you must have meant to say some, not most.

Oh and by the way everybody PT rots! It's treated to slow it not stop it. Sealing it will slow it further just like any other wood but it will still rot.
 

109jb

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Re: Why not pressure treated plywood?

I don't understand this thread. The OP should not use pressure treated because it will corrode the aluminum in his boat. End of story.
:confused:

But that isn't entirely true.

He can use CCA treated plywood without any problems or special preparation

He can use ACQ treated plywood, but he has to insulate between the ply and the aluminum.

Then there is the new MCQ pressure treated wood that is supposed to be OK for use in contact with aluminum flashing. I guess an aluminum boat would be OK too.
 

halfmoa

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Re: Why not pressure treated plywood?

^^^^^^
Not to mention that the OP (ME) approves of the current direction in which this thread is headed. This has been an intelligent discussion of marine construction materials. How many threads have you seen that say, "Hey guys, I was wondering if it was OK to do xxxxxx," with 2 replies stating, "No, that won't work. Good luck with that,". Hundreds, if not thousands of threads are answered and terminated in four replies or less. Wanna hijack this thread and turn it into a thread about polishing compound? Go ahead! At this rate it's gonna be a sticky about how to properly ask and answer a readily debatable subject in an ethical manner. I feel like I'm back in law classes...

Keep it up fellas! Intelligent debate ahoy!



Just don't mention transom savers, ethanol, or empty/full tank storage...
 

bbodin

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Re: Why not pressure treated plywood?

I don't understand this thread. The OP should not use pressure treated because it will corrode the aluminum in his boat. End of story.
:confused:

Yep, but I think the idea of the thread was to cause a ruckus. He wanted a scientific answer but asked it on a web site chat room. Well moa you knew what you would get when you asked this question, and you also knew the real answer too.
In short, if you want a fool proof scientific answer goe elsewhere. If you want opinions, ask here.
You stated that you run into this on other chat rooms but this is what chat rooms are for. Just have the common sense to know what to believe. I'll bet if I searched other chat rooms for your threads there would be many like this.
I am not trying to be a jerk but this is obvious.
 

ondarvr

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11,527
Re: Why not pressure treated plywood?

You've said this before but yet I've never managed to locate one of these most, could it be cause it's not true? That's cool you use marine specific PT, but if most were using it the people making the non PT marine plywoods would be out of business now wouldn't they? Seriously I know of many high end manufactures that don't use it, so who does? We already know it's not most, so really I'd like to know who the some you know of are. You know cause that's what you must have meant to say some, not most.

Oh and by the way everybody PT rots! It's treated to slow it not stop it. Sealing it will slow it further just like any other wood but it will still rot.


I have posted this stuff several times.

I visit boat builders every week and have done tech service and sales of resin and gel coat for just about every major boat builder in North America, so I get to see exactly what is used.

When builders first started using these products they advertised it, after a while it was so common they didn't say much about it. I only had one very large customer on the West Coast that didn't use PT, but they packed up and moved east.


http://greenwoodproducts.com/store/marine-plywood/plydek.html

http://www.overtons.com/modperl/pro...=Greenwood_PlyDek_XL_Plywood_Panel_4_x_8_each

http://www.millenniumpowerboats.com...ent&task=category&sectionid=4&id=23&Itemid=44

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...l8437l0l9500l12l12l0l4l4l0l391l1641l2-2.3l5l0

http://www.bluewaveboats.com/media/pdf/220SuperT.pdf

http://marine-plywood.us/douglas fir.htm#BC_Pressure

http://www.affiliatedresources.net/....net/downloads/Aqua_Ply_Plus.pdfTIOENGINEERED
Marine Panels
AQUA PLY PLUS?
DESCRIPTION
AQUA PLY PLUS? is a specialty plywood panel that has been pressure-treated with AQUA SEAL? copper oxide formulated waterborne preservative and kiln-dried to a uniformly low moisture content. The AQUA SEAL preservative treatment is fixed into the cellular structure of the wood panel to prevent fungal decay and attack by termites. Every AQUA PLY PLUS panel is graded and certified for strength, stability and flatness.

They offer a 25 year warranty on this product.
 

halfmoa

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Re: Why not pressure treated plywood?

Yep, but I think the idea of the thread was to cause a ruckus. He wanted a scientific answer but asked it on a web site chat room. Well moa you knew what you would get when you asked this question, and you also knew the real answer too.
In short, if you want a fool proof scientific answer goe elsewhere. If you want opinions, ask here.
You stated that you run into this on other chat rooms but this is what chat rooms are for. Just have the common sense to know what to believe. I'll bet if I searched other chat rooms for your threads there would be many like this.
I am not trying to be a jerk but this is obvious.
As previously stated the idea of this thread was to get several differing opinions backed with fact. I did not know the answer before this thread started. As a matter of fact, I couldn't think of a single reason why I couldn't place a piece of pressure treated wood on aluminum. Now I know thanks to the contributors of this forum. The previous problems I had on another forum was this: Will the Audrino controller work for xxxx application? I received over 100 answers, every one of which stated, more or less, "of course it will, why wouldn't it, that's what it's for. What, are you trying to cause problems or ar you just an idiot?" In fact, the Audrino controller wouldn't even remotely fit my application (no reason to bore you with specifics). I never asked for a fool proof answer, just scientific facts to support opinions.

I'm really not quite sure why everyone is getting bent out of shape about me asking for facts to back up opinion...that is, unless they're not sure themselves.

Thanks again,
halfmoa
 

kelly p

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Re: Why not pressure treated plywood?

This has been interesting; Just got to jump in. I work for a world wide producer of equipment used in the marine and oil production field in off shore enviroments. A very large percentage of failures is from corrosion.
Halfmoa, all the answers you are seeking are here, just stated differently. If you are looking for scientific explanations to galvanic corrosion due to electrolysis between dissimilar metals it would take a 100+ page document. Think of a big battery, any form of copper touching aluminum with any form of electrolite (in this instance water) will create an electrical path creating corrosion. The superior metal will corrode (eat up ) the less superior metal. In this case the aluminum. That is why we have sacrificial zincs on our outboards or in the case of an inboard attached to the hull of the vessel.
For this reason you do not want any form of copper to be in direct contact with aluminum.

As far as the plywood is concerened. The first 2 letters refer to the grade of the exterior sheets, ie: AA AB BB CD. AA= no voids, splits, patches, etc. CD can have up to 2" holes, splits, loose knots, etc. The "X" is exterior grade glue, it is the same glue used in all exterior grade plywood. The difference between Marine grade plywood and regular Lowe's plywood is in the materials and manufacturing process of the plywood. CDX can have up to 2" holes in the interior plys, the interior plys can have up to 2" distance between ajoining plys, and can have overlaping plys in the interior. Thus the voids found in the edges and when a sheet is being cut. Also the interior plys can be of any type wood, ie: pine, spruce, hemlock, it does not matter.
Marine plywood, I used Douglas Fir because that is what is availiable, grade AB, can not have any holes or voids in the exterior plys or in the interior plys. The interior plys can have no more than a 1/8" gap between adjoining plys, and all the plys interior and exterior will be Douglas fir.
Thus Marine plywood is stronger and more rot resistant. Marine plywood is not treated ( as I have heard before ) with any kind of water proofing, water resistant treatments, or any preservatives. It is just a higher quality plywood manufactured to a stricter tolerance and quality control. It still MUST BE PROTECTED from moisture!!
I am in the process of restoring a 1969 LoneStar Cruiseliner 111, I use Marine plywood protected with unwaxed epoxy resin, not polyester resin. To me the boat is worth the extra trouble and expense and I want my Grandkids to enjoy the boat as much as I do. When I removed the original wood from the transom I found the wood 60% rotted away and major corrosion and pitting in the aluminum. Will take lots of work and money to repair but I really don't want to be in the middle of the lake and the engines headed deep 6!!

Sorry for being so long winded and I want to say KUDOS to everyone on this site. They have save me much money, time and headach.
 

jimbo_jwc

Ship Happens
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Messages
633
Re: Why not pressure treated plywood?

Just goes to show you most people don't understand a battery and that water is conductive by its mineral content . I just guess they didn't see or make one in grade school w/potato or orange . Virginia Beach Docks learned the hard way w/ deck screws at enormous cost. Not Science at 101 levels . Experiment at electric fences at different moisture conditions .
 

ondarvr

Supreme Mariner
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Re: Why not pressure treated plywood?

Here is an old article on PT marine ply.
This isn't to say it's better or worse in any particular application, only that it has been a round for a long time and has been used by many different manufactures.

From April 2002 Boating mag, written by Sr. Tech Editor, Lenny Rudow (unedited)
"Felling the myth that wood's no good"
Go to any boat show and you'll hear it a hundred times: "Our boat is 100 percent wood-free, so you'll never have to worry about rot." Is this claim true? Absolutely. Is it the whole truth? Not by a long shot. There's an industry-wide accepted assumption that wood is no good?and that's just not accurate.
We all remember the days when owning a boat meant countless hours of labor replacing rotten wood. Every spring you'd identify and fix new rot, and a month later you'd find a new spot?or two or three. Some boat salespeople may manipulate these fears and use the wood-free claim to insinuate that their boats require less maintenance and last longer than those built with wood. What they don't tell you is that today's wood is a heck of a lot better than that of yesteryear. XL Brand plywood sold by Greenwood Forest Products, for example, is pressure and chemical treated to resist rot. In fact, Greenwood is so sure its ply won't decay that the company offers a transferable lifetime guarantee. That's why boatbuilding icons such as Grady-White and Pursuit use Greenwood or similar plies. Remember, too, that wood is most commonly used as a core material, so it doesn't stand on its own but, rather, is encapsulated in, and protected by, fiberglass.
Since today's builders use composites that end the rot-or-no-rot debate, why bother with wood at all? Because wood is often the best material for the job. Other core materials, such as closed-cell foam, don't offer as much strength or stiffness. Wood has better sound-deadening properties. Screws get a better bite in wood than in fiberglass, so components are held together more securely. Wood has superior memory, meaning a wood-based structure will retain its shape longer under heavy loading.
Economically, composites can cost more than three times as much as wood coring, making the final product?your boat?more expensive. Sure, some composites weigh less than wood, but lighter is not always better. For instance, in similar offshore fishboats, the one with heavier wood-based stringers tends to ride better in a chop.
So, why does the assumption that wood is bad still exist? Because there's plenty out there that's low quality or used improperly. Today's wood horror stories are most often a direct result of poor workmanship or substandard materials. But if high-grade rot-resistant plywood is used correctly in a fiberglass boat, you have little to worry about. In fact, a boat built with wood may well outperform and outlive the wood-free version.

From the Grady website.

Stringer Systems
Stringer systems of no-rot plywood are precision cut by a computerized router then glassed in while the hull is still in the mold. This means the SeaV2 hull will retain the correct shape. Our tried and proven stringer systems are consistently strong, light, and phenomenally durable. Our no-rot plywood systems carry a limited lifetime warranty. Plus, in a Grady-White, sprayed-in foam between the stringers acts as spreaders between the structural beams for added strength.
 

Yacht Dr.

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5,581
Re: Why not pressure treated plywood?

by the way dave......

not to hijack. (since we are going down the materials road).... i know you have to use what materials the owner of the shop gives you to use...(its what they buy, sometimes you might get a different product if a new salesman gives a good deal to head office).

i am referring specifically in this case to 3m polishing compounds. as you know, i use farecla. however, i have heard of a product called "the stick". out side of this laymans name, i dont know anything about it. other than great reviews.
have you heard of it or used it?

thanks
ward

I think this was intended for a PM to someone and not a part of this thread..

^^^^^^
Not to mention that the OP (ME) approves of the current direction in which this thread is headed. This has been an intelligent discussion of marine construction materials. How many threads have you seen that say, "Hey guys, I was wondering if it was OK to do xxxxxx," with 2 replies stating, "No, that won't work. Good luck with that,". Hundreds, if not thousands of threads are answered and terminated in four replies or less.

Glad to see you approve of the direction of the thread..

I have been that replier stating "Don't do it" .. because It will not work" and I/We dont have to explain it when the question has been hashed over and over in the open Forum.

Wanna hijack this thread and turn it into a thread about polishing compound? Go ahead!

I do not think he wants to jack the thread LOL .. Its a miss post ( at least I think it was because it had Nothing to do with your thread ).

At this rate it's gonna be a sticky about how to properly ask and answer a readily debatable subject in an ethical manner. I feel like I'm back in law classes...

Sticky has already been done at the top of the forum as far as Properly asked questions .. " Get the best out of Iboats "

As far as a "Sticky" on HOW TO properly Debate a subject .. good luck with that :) .


In short, if you want a fool proof scientific answer goe elsewhere. If you want opinions, ask here.

Thats Not entirely true .. ;) ..

As previously stated the idea of this thread was to get several differing opinions backed with fact. I did not know the answer before this thread started. Now I know thanks to the contributors of this forum.

Glad we could help :) ..

If there are any other questions ( specific or not ) just post away ...

YD + Iboats members

PS. This thread should be locked now that all the questions have been answered here as suggested by the OP.
 
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