At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

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Hghvoltage

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Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Morebass 17 something to think about on the large compressor. I'm not sure how the come in the UK but here in the States most that size have at least a 3/4" hose connection, so you might want to take a look at what fittings you may need to adapt it for the pressure pot system.
 

oops!

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Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Listen to this guy and you Will regret .... there is NO Spray and polish LOL ...

YD.


to add to this.....

gellcoat is not like paint.....people are really confused because it comes in a can that looks like paint......you can use simelar methods to apply it.....
but that is where it ends.

this is pigmented fiberglass resin....applyed properly..it will last over 50 years......lets see rustolium do that. :D

after auto painters are done and there guns are all cleaned.....they go home.
with gellcoat....you still have lots to go.

lots of sanding and fairing.....and then the sanding starts....
after the sanding......the polishing starts.

THERE IS NO SPRAY AND POLISH METHOD.....I DONT CARE HOW MANY ADDITIVES YOU PUT IN THE GELLCOAT.
 

morebass 17

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Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

I'm not sure how the come in the UK but here in the States most that size have at least a 3/4" hose connection, so you might want to take a look at what fittings you may need to adapt it for the pressure pot system.

Yes I was thinking that too, Im sure it will come with different fittings, but I have couplings in my work that will reduce this to standard fittings. I work in a garage (i'm in the motor trade, shame I dont have a spray booth though, but everything else is readily available, I could actually use the air in my work but there is not really an ideal place that would be free from dust and I don't think the management would be too pleased with the overspray I am most likely going to get)
 

morebass 17

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Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

to add to this.....

gellcoat is not like paint.....people are really confused because it comes in a can that looks like paint......you can use simelar methods to apply it.....
but that is where it ends.

this is pigmented fiberglass resin....applyed properly..it will last over 50 years......lets see rustolium do that. :D

after auto painters are done and there guns are all cleaned.....they go home.
with gellcoat....you still have lots to go.

lots of sanding and fairing.....and then the sanding starts....
after the sanding......the polishing starts.

THERE IS NO SPRAY AND POLISH METHOD.....I DONT CARE HOW MANY ADDITIVES YOU PUT IN THE GELLCOAT.

Well put Oop's
 

nymack66

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Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

sorry nymack66 I did'nt notice your post, it got lost on the previous page, Thanks for the info & links, sounds too easy though. I am no expert like the great Yacht Dr. and Ondarve but to my understanding no matter what way gelcoat is applied there is always going to be some blood,sweat and tears sanding the gel before buffing / cutting compound process can take place. I have heard of people using HVLP setups for gelcoat but not for complete hull applications. but you did mention some great products that will be getting used.

Folks doubt me all the time here its the reason I never posted my project, Give the compound a try, be sure to post your results so others can learn as I did ..Light sanding was done with an orbital sander on the areas with Orange peel or sags the rest was buffing using the tools and products I mentioned. I did light sanding where there were sags. The rest was buff to what you see in the pictures, this was done on hull in my driveway, heat, Florida bugs and all ...
Bigger the compressor is of course better. I am not even going to mention what I used. I may be banned from this site :)
Good Luck and keep us posted, Don't ever try to apply Gel Coat with a roller or Brush thats another debate I rather not debate.
BTW..PM me your address I will ship you a new Gun exactly the model I used for free my expense use it if it fails you toss in trash..Harbor Freight is 1/4 mile from my house :)
I also have this on the shelf catching dust, It did not work for me ...
http://cgi.ebay.com/E-S-ES-100-Gel-...202?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c19f2e5b2

8.resized.jpg3.resized.jpg
 

morebass 17

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Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Folks doubt me all the time here its the reason I never posted my project, Give the compound a try, be sure to post your results so others can learn as I did ..Light sanding was done with an orbital sander on the areas with Orange peel or sags the rest was buffing using the tools and products I mentioned. I did light sanding where there were sags. The rest was buff to what you see in the pictures, this was done on hull in my driveway, heat, Florida bugs and all ...
Bigger the compressor is of course better. I am not even going to mention what I used. I may be banned from this site :)
Good Luck and keep us posted, Don't ever try to apply Gel Coat with a roller or Brush thats another debate I rather not debate.
BTW..PM me your address I will ship you a new Gun exactly the model I used for free my expense use it if it fails you toss in trash..Harbor Freight is 1/4 mile from my house :)
I also have this on the shelf catching dust, It did not work for me ...
http://cgi.ebay.com/E-S-ES-100-Gel-...202?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c19f2e5b2

View attachment 87738View attachment 87739

I don't doubt that this worked for you, just not sure it would work for everyone. I would love to see some pics of the finish you managed to get with so little work, even just to boost my confidence that I will get there eventually.

The reason I am not sure of your method is that gelcoat masters like Yacht Dr. , Ondarve, & Oop's Who have probably tried every method does not agree, And everywhere else I have looked for info on gelcoating a full hull all seem to claim it involves a load of work to get a descent finish.

The reason I was applying by brush & roller is because my fibreglass/resin supplier advised this and also I have recently learned from Ondarvr that the gelcoat is actually formulated for this method in the united kingdom. I am sure I could get a reasonable finish applying by roller & brush but I think the amount of material that would need sanding off will not make it worth while.

I will be posting every step of the way untill the full project is finished (including painting and upholstering theinterior and also I will be doing a lot of work on my outboard that i will post too.)

Thanks very much for your offer of sending a gun to me, I may take you up on that, Ive got loads more sanding / preperation though before I get to that step.

please feel free to post pics on this thread of your finished project. It will give me and others a boost knowing there is light at the end of the tunnel.
 

oops!

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Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

to be concise..

every time an additive is used in gellcoat......the product suffers
even acetone.
there are special products like patch aid, that can be used with little consenquence. but these are MADE BY THE GELLCOAT MFGRS TO BE USED WITH THIER PRODUCT.
gellcoat is a really superior product. by adding acetone over spec....mekp over spec or other.....you may not notice the difference right off the bat....but a little down the road.....crazing starts. and you are back at the same job.

i dont know how many boats from the manufacturers that i have repaired the gellcoat on.....all because the gellcoat was just a little thick in spots....and this was applied by the mfgrs! it crazed because it was a little thick.....not to mention under catylized or over catylized.....
we all want the stuff to cure quicker so we have a tendancy to "go hot" by adding more mekp than the specs say.....but inevitably........we will be back at it in the same spot in a few years.

the following is a quote from ondarvr as posted above.

"Depending on what your expectations are for the job, beware of adding anything to thin the gel coat, as you add thinners, and this includes the Duratec clear, it will reduce the weather and water resistance of the gel coat. A small amount of thinner may not have a noticeable affect, but I wouldn't go over 10% with anything if possible."

he speaks about "reducing the weather and water restance of the gellcoat"......well our boats live in a hurricane every day of thier lives, and we all know about trying to get rid of oxidasition from gellcoat !

there are many ways to skin a cat......but- we are making considerable investments in our boats....not to mention the fact that they carry very special cargo (our kids) so why try to reinvent the wheel just to save a few hours sanding?

hope these thoughts help some people
cheers
oops
 

morebass 17

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Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Again Oop's , Just what I was going to say LOL :D

There is some fantastic technical info posted so far that is going to answer so many questions. And the thread has just started.

Wonder if this one will get more views than "hull extension in progress with pics"
what do you think Oop's LOL :D
 

nymack66

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Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Here is the link for the product I used and mentioned be sure to read the MSDS folks it explains the things I can't ...
http://www.duratec1.com/Product Names & Codes.html
Hi Res time you say?
DSC_0582.jpg
 

oops!

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Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

lol.....you never know...:p
when i started my thread i had no idea that it would go anywhere near 2000 hits, never mind end up being a freeking book !:eek: :D

keep posting pics....keep asking questions....we will keep answering questions, and lets see where it goes !
 

morebass 17

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Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Here is the link for the product I used and mentioned be sure to read the MSDS folks it explains the things I can't ...
http://www.duratec1.com/Product Names & Codes.html
Hi Res time you say?
DSC_0582.jpg

well nymack66 what can I say, that seems to be a finish most people would be more than happy with. Me personally would be over the moon if my hull ended up looking like that. Couple of questions though. (or maybe 5 LOL )

1. Was this spray job done in one session ?
2. Was this a HVLP gravity gun that was used for the full spray ?
3. What size of tip ?
4. If hardly any sanding was required, am I right in saying you must have shot the gel perfectly even ?
5. What size of compressor ?


Hat off to you my friend, you pulled it off.
 

morebass 17

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Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

I only managed 2 hours on the boat there, I started sanding with 60g with an orbital sander and then cleaning with acetone and sanding again. It doesn't take long to get past the tacky layer of gel, but the squeegy put so much gel on its gonna take a good few days to get it back to were it was. Don't let this put anyone off using the squeegy technique because it is still a great idea. The reason it caused problems for me is because I used much thicker gelcoat than normal ( brushing gelcoat ) I should have thinned it down before I used in this way, oh well we learn by our mistakes.

Once I knock down the gelcoat I will have to fair it out again, I'm just glad I started below the waterline first and not the full hull. It is so annoying to be going backwards but hopefully it will be worth it in the end.

Ondarve, you mentioned before that it would be much better to prep the hull to 80 grit. Is this still the case now that I plan to spray it instead, or will this be too course ?

Stay tuned everyone hopefully there will be a happy ending to this story.
 

j_k_bisson

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Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

If you fair out the gel you put on with a squeegy while sanding, you will not have to remove/sand it all off. Just a tip. Think of it as filler or glazing putty.
 

SawDust{RM}

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

WoW the perfidies of gelcoat & it always comes back to the sanding Questions

I think I'll order me another gallon

"And The Whiskey.... Ain't To A Workin... Anymore...."
 

ondarvr

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Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Yes, 80 will work well, gel coat will easily hide scratches from grit even coarser than 80.


nymack66

The boat looks good, its a normal Duratec job. While Duratec clear makes for a much quicker respray job, it also compromises the gel coat quality, you trade water and weather resistance for ease of spraying and sanding. This is what I meant when I said "depending on your expectations".

If the boat is not kept in the water for long periods of time, and is stored indoors or completely covered, then the Duratec may not be much of an issue, it should last and look good. I can get into more detail, but I've typed it so many time here my fingers have blisters.
 

morebass 17

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Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

If you fair out the gel you put on with a squeegy while sanding, you will not have to remove/sand it all off. Just a tip. Think of it as filler or glazing putty.

Yeah im noticing that, I would prefer to leave some on anyway, so that applying the gel was not a waste of time.
 

morebass 17

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Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Yes, 80 will work well, gel coat will easily hide scratches from grit even coarser than 80.

Thanks Ondarvr, I might go with 60 grit then just to speed up the fairing process and to give the new gel a better key.
 

morebass 17

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Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

I contacted harbour freight and they do actually ship to the U.K. but I don't think I will receive the items in time, I will be spraying the gelcoat in about a week.
I cant find any cheap setups locally so I am bidding on a pressure pot setup on ebay,
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280649789720&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
The only problem is this item does not come with a gun.
What should I look out for when I try to find a gun that is compatible ?
Or if its too much hassle finding a compatible gun, should I just pay more for a full setup ?
 

Yacht Dr.

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Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Any standard gun will work with those hose fittings.

Its the tip size you need to worry about. Just ordering up without knowing what tip it has could end up being a waste of money.

1.8mm is a Binks 66 tip size.

YD.
 
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