marine plywood... necessity or not?

Status
Not open for further replies.

new boat guy

Seaman
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
56
i hear a lot about marine plywood but i am unsure of its betterness (couldn't think of well a rea word :) ). i do work with wood a lot so i know high quality wood. the thing with marine ply seems to be less voids? is there much of a difference between a high quality piece of non-marine ply and marine ply? (besides the cost.. :D )
 

Bob_VT

Moderator & Unofficial iBoats Historian
Staff member
Joined
May 19, 2001
Messages
26,022
Re: marine plywood... necessity or not?

Exterior plywood properly sealed will work fine.
 

tallcanadian

Captain
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
3,245
Re: marine plywood... necessity or not?

i used marine grade on mine but once wrapped in fiberglass i dont' think it would really matter the grade. i also used 3/4'' because i wanted it strong.
 

Mark42

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
9,334
Re: marine plywood... necessity or not?

CDX rated PTS (Plugged Touched and Sanded) will be minus most voids found in regular cdx, and it is still made with hot pressure exterior glue. I just used this cdx pts for making windshield frames, and it worked very well.

Then there is also pressure treated plywood. Won't rot, cheaper than marine, and it is highly recommended by the Engineered Plywood Association (APA).

Read about why the APA says:
For BEST performance of plywood in boat manufacturing, APA recommends the use of treated plywood ...

Read all about it here: http://www.glen-l.com/wood-plywood/boatbuilding-plywood.html
 

jcsercsa

Captain
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
3,401
Re: marine plywood... necessity or not?

Exterior plywood properly sealed will work fine.

Yep agreed , just make sure you seal the heck out of it , I put 3 coats of polyuerthane on mine !! John
 

PiratePast40

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
1,734
Re: marine plywood... necessity or not?

Part of it depends on price and availability. Greenwood marine ply is made close by where I live so it's only $60 a sheet for 3/4" here.
 

drewpster

Commander
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
2,059
Re: marine plywood... necessity or not?

I used to be a die hard marine everything kind of guy. I guess experience and pocketbook are the better teachers here. I have searched far and wide to find a supplier of marine ply here with no luck. I have spoken to just about every boat/ fiberglass, marine or other kind of boat shop here and have different advice from every one. Just today I took a road trip to a couple of builders and wood supply places here in town. On the way home I made one more call to a local boat repair place that has been in business for at least 25 years. The owner, who still answers the phone, had this to say, "I use AC grade exterior plywood. That's just about all your going to find here for a half way reasonable price. (laughing) Having trouble huh?" I am sure marine grade plywood is fine if you can afford to ship it from a specialty house for about $180 a sheet. Personally I am going with ACX from lowes. Good sanded faces on each side and exterior grade glue. Its the best I can muster it this point.
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
51,019
Re: marine plywood... necessity or not?

i will say it again, PT plywood does not belong in a boat.
 

erikgreen

Captain
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
3,105
Re: marine plywood... necessity or not?

I kinda agree on the PT thing. I mean, it's mostly for reassurance of the owner. If the wood gets wet it won't rot, but it will swell up hard enough to tear thin fiberglass, and the weight will still be there. Who wants a soaked boat even if it's not going to rot? Just take it out and fix it.

On the ply question, marine vs. exterior grade is kind of a religious issue for many. But, here is some info on the subject.

First, use marine grade if you're engaging in a project where the designer specifies it... marine is stronger and stiffer than exterior because of the number of plies, so if a designer calculated in that strength you'll want to make sure you use the materials he expected.

Marine is easy to work with... it's usually very smooth sanded, very flat, holds dimensions well, and looks good. Certified for marine use, it may be important to use this for insurance purposes.

Marine ply is stronger than exterior. This is because of two things. It has a larger number of plies, usually twice as many as exterior, which improves its strength tremendously. Second, it has no voids... all the plies are continuous with no air gaps inside the wood. This means you get uniform strength across the piece and no little reservoirs for water to collect.

Marine ply is NOT treated against rot. Common myth. Sometimes the wood it's made from is high quality tropical hardwood (so marine ply can be less eco-friendly than exterior) which has some rot resistance, but there's nothing special about the marine name as far as rot goes. You can get marine PT plywood, which is both marine and rot treated, but the same comment as above applies for it... who wants to have a non rotting boat that's soaked with water?

In reality most production boats are not made with marine ply. They're built using exterior of some sort, and more and more new boats have no wood at all. Using exterior on your repair or modification is a pretty safe thing to do, especially if you follow the rules for encapsulating it in glass or resin.

I use Arauco ply (from a factory in Chile) and plyfloor underlayment (baltic birch ply) for stuff right now. I can get both at Menards, both have almost no voids, the Arauco is AC (not officially X yet, but it has the same waterproofing) and usually has both sides almost AA and is renewable, being made from fast growing plantation trees instead of wild grown hardwood. Both are $20-$30 a sheet. More expensive than CDX, but much nicer to work with.

Erik
 

Mark42

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
9,334
Re: marine plywood... necessity or not?

BTW, Dean Franklin, who is a recognized authority in boats and boat building always recommends P/T ply in boat rebuilds (when not aluminum hulls). For those of you who know who Dean Franklin is, that is quite thumbs up for P/T.
 

erikgreen

Captain
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
3,105
Re: marine plywood... necessity or not?

I don't think I've heard of him... who is he?

Erik
 

Starppy

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
84
Re: marine plywood... necessity or not?

I have heard that PT should never be used in aluminum boats since it will corrode AL. I would not use CDX. That means C grade face, D grade back and undetermined quality laminates in the core (X does not mean exterior).

Boat quality plywood should be at least all BBC Exterior (Exterior refers to the adhesive used to bond the laminates). Anything less will have voids in the material that will hold water and lead to rot. MArine grades are usually at least AAB Exterior.
 

new boat guy

Seaman
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
56
Re: marine plywood... necessity or not?

does it same if it CDX or BBC on the "tag" of the wood? or do you have to ask someone what grade it is?
 

BIGcarpy50

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
268
Re: marine plywood... necessity or not?

advantec plywood (also know as Advanced Tech) is already soaked with epoxy it is used for roofing applications. the company gaurantees that it will withstand 90days uncovered. I got 3 sheets for 25 each for a lumber yard in my area. I painted it with porch and floor paint with sand in it and it looks great.
 

Gelcoat-jon

Cadet
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
23
Re: marine plywood... necessity or not?

i hear a lot about marine plywood but i am unsure of its betterness (couldn't think of well a rea word :) ). i do work with wood a lot so i know high quality wood. the thing with marine ply seems to be less voids? is there much of a difference between a high quality piece of non-marine ply and marine ply? (besides the cost.. :D )

I've been in the industry 28 years now As long as you properly seal the wood,[glass both sides] I use BC ply smooth side up.
 

drewpster

Commander
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
2,059
Re: marine plywood... necessity or not?

I guess the purpose of the ply being used is something to consider as well. I am working on a 16' tri-hull. The transom, stringer and deck cores are all being replaced. The structure of the boat will not be modified from the original design. I will be doing some improvements but the basic design will remain the same. The transom and stringers will be replaced with marine grade ply. I did find one local supplier that carries 3/4" marine ply. ($99 a pop) But they only carry 3/4", no other thickness.
The deck of the boat was built originally out of 3/8" ply covered with about 1/4" of fiberglass. The core may seem thin at 3/8" however the deck I removed was very solid but wet. Just like all the other wood. The transom had active rot was very wet. I decided to do all the cores because they were wet and when the deck was removed I found allot of lousy glass work.
I have looked everywhere and cannot find 3/8" marine ply of any kind. I have found several sources online for marine ply but I cannot afford the shipping. This is the same reason by the way that the local suppliers do not carry it. They will not order the one or two pieces I need. That is why I am going with the ACX. (found at Lowes +- $30 a sheet) A grade face one side, C grade face other side an X for exterior grade glue. Good enough for me. Considering that I am going to glass both faces of the deck sheets I think it will be fine. I considered PT ply but I do not want to wait for the sheets to dry out before the glass goes on. The PT ply I have found was warped pretty good at the store. I do not want to start out with warped wood.
 

drewpster

Commander
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
2,059
Re: marine plywood... necessity or not?

I've been in the industry 28 years now As long as you properly seal the wood,[glass both sides] I use BC ply smooth side up.

Incidentally jon's opinion has the same sentiment I have found from every professional I have spoken to. Use good grade wood and seal it well. I have found bad glass work in both my project boats that likely caused the wet wood problems I have now. I am convinced, the glass work is key.
 

danond

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
1,118
Re: marine plywood... necessity or not?

I used MDO in my transom and exterior grade for everything else. Including the 3 layers of fiberglass and 3 pieces of 1/2" MDO (7 plies each), I now have a 24-ply 2&1/8" transom. :p

It's overkill, though. Exterior grade would have produced a satisfactory result.
 

Attachments

  • 21pliesofgoodness.jpg
    21pliesofgoodness.jpg
    28.5 KB · Views: 1

F14CRAZY

Ensign
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
945
Re: marine plywood... necessity or not?

I've been using marine plywood...my local Lowes was able to order it in for about $55/sheet (1/2''). The extra strength due to the 5 plies to me is worth the extra cost. If you were talking like $100/sheet or more I wouldn't mess with it. Then again, your resin-soaking, glassing-over, and tabbing is going to improve the strength of the deck anyway.

As I've thought about it it makes sense. It doesn't much matter what wood you use in your boat IF its going to get wet. Basically ANY type of plywood is ruined if its allowed to get wet, only difference is the length of time it takes for it to get really bad. Pressure treated plywood is going to last longer if its wet, but the goal is to forever keep the wood from getting wet :)
 

erikgreen

Captain
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
3,105
Re: marine plywood... necessity or not?

Good glassing is key. Keep the wood dry.

Marine will give you extra strength by weight, but you probably don't need it. If you want more strength and less rot than marine, go with a honeycomb type panel instead of wood.

Use a good grade of exterior ply and seal it thoroughly.

Advantech panels look ok, they're basically a resin and wood fiber composite, but they're probably too stiff to bend at all, so keep that in mind. For the uses listed they're probably ok. They're probably heavier than regular ply.

PT ply is ok, but doesn't generally buy you much. It'll resist rot longer than exterior or most marine, but if the wood is wet enough to rot it needs to come out anyway. It also needs to be dried out before use and can corrode certain metal types placed on it.

Erik
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top