Replacing Bayliner Capri stringers/deck with pix

rngale

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Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Hi, While u are taking up the floor you should check the stringers before going through all the effort of putting the floor back down, no need to do it twice. You should be able to do it on the trailer provide you dont need to replace large sections of the stringers at a time. The danger of changing the boats shape would come from removing the stringers, taking the deck completly off.

Keep in mind that most bayliners were cored with balsa wood. While u are in there u will want to make sure that none of the core has delaminated, if it has you will need to remove the bad core and replace and reglass. Check all through hull and through deck fixtures for an adequate seal as well. I would recommend removal of all fittings and fixtures, seal coat the holes with epoxy, reattach hardware with 3m 4200.

As for plywood, marine grade is best. If you plan to just screw it down and carpet over it, encapsulte it in epoxy, should be covered in the west system book. If glassing it in, i would reccomend polyester resin due to cost. Seal plywood witha hot coat ( a coat of resin only) then build flanges for your floor to sit on out of fiberglass bent 90 degrees. This can be accomplished with the use hot glue and plastic laminate forms. If you are going to go this route let me know and i will explain further.


I am a bout builder with 15 years in business. Everything from mold making to awl grip.

good luck with your project
 

F14CRAZY

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Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

"I see" on working on the boat while on the trailer. With stringer replacement, should I expect to replace just a section or sections, determined by cutting the fiberglass off the top of them? And, say if I have to replace the entire stringer, would I do it in sections, maybe a few feet at a time, with good drying time and all before doing another section?

By "fittings and fixtures" that includes things like the seat boxes, right? I'm a little confused on that term.

So basically, all the wood below the deck will be encapsulated in epoxy? Do I need to cover the new deck in epoxy before the carpet?

I'll look into a local source of marine plywood.

Thanks for the tips rngale, and sry for any dumb questions
 

rngale

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

First, the only dumb ? is the one not asked.
Second if replacing the strings then the boat needs better support then the trailer. It's best if you can replace the entire stringer in one shot for strength purposes. You could take a small hole saw and drill test holes int he stringers to find out how solid they are. If solid, put plugs back in holes and reglass over them. Epoxy is not needed for the repair you can use polyester resin and fiblerglass. Make wure to grind it well for bonding purposes and keep it as smooth as possible.

And yes to prevent rot from reoccurring you should seal any where a fastener goes into the boat with wood contact. Be careful not to over tighten on a cored boat as you can crush the core if spacers aren't used.

The west system book covers this to i beleive.

Dont hesitate to read before doing and have a good understanding of what your going to do before starting.

Your local lumber yard id not likely to stock marine ply.

Good luck
 

F14CRAZY

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Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

BTW I called my local Lowes and they can ship in marine plywood, takes about a week
 

F14CRAZY

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Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

but do I really, really need to use marine plywood or can I get by with pressure treated stuff? Or get bare stuff and treat it myself? I dunno
 

oops!

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Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

hi 14


you do not need to use marine.....it advantages are .....its dry.....there is less voids in it (between the ply) the glue they use is waterproof.

pressure treated wood is allways a good choice......but there are a few drawbacks.....

it cannot come in contact with aluminimum.....it will eat the alum.....it MUST be totally dried out....at least a month of drying with a fan on it in a heated area.....it tends to warp when drying.
it also has a few more void areas between the ply.....however......when done correctly....it will last a long time.....

the other alternatiive....is exterior grade plywood.....
the glue is waterproof....its allready very dry...however it still needs to be dryed......a bout a good week with heat and fans blowing over both sides.
its cheap....and will work great.....

whatever wood you choose......once its encapsulated in glass....it will outlast your want for the boat....

a good transom job will last well over 20 years.......
heck....the bayliner one lasted 20 and your job will be better than that
 

rngale

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Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Pt wood of any type in a boat is not a good Choice. The chemicals in it are toxic to start with, it prevents polyester and epoxy resin from forming a good bond and its heavy.

You can use marine ply or exterior house ply, but keep in mind house ply was never intended for the marine envoirment and the "water proof" glues are different between the to types of plywood. The marine ply is made of different wood as well, most ext ply is made of softer woods inherent to rot when constantly in a wet enviorment, It goes way beyond the void factor. in most cases, 3/4 inch ext ply consists of 5 layers of veneers, most marine plys of equal thickness have 7 or more, more = strength and stability.

If it were my boat and i needed a bunch of flat panels here is what i would do,

manufacture a lay-up table from 2x4 and 3/4 ply, laminate formica to it making sure it stays flat and level, wax with mold release wax.

gelcoat if desired, 1-2 layers of 1 1/2 oz mat, 2 layer 1805 dbm(1/2 oz mat with 18 oz double bi-axile +/-45 degrees ) cloth core layer set in corebond (most likely devincell foam core with thickness being dependant upon intneded use) 2 layers 1 1/2oz mat 2 layers 1802 dbm. Pop panel from mold and install.

I have seen pressure treated installs before many times by way of ripping it out and doing it the right way, ask any boat builder. If pt was a good choice why wasnt it put in in the first place( i think you see my point)

Good luck
 

F14CRAZY

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Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

rngale, again thanks for your informative post. I know to avoid PT wood and why...I suppose I'll order some marine stuff and being that I'm not the best woodworker, like mockup things first with cardboard (I'm a plumber and thus have access to big pieces of it, like water heater boxes) then use that as a guide...I figure I should be careful when it's THAT expensive
 

rngale

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Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

A good way to make a template is to take a sheet of 1/4 inch mdf or plywood and rip it into 3-4 inch strips. put it up agianst the peice you want to scribe it to and mark it witha block and a pencil. when the peices are all scribed get a buddy to help you and a hot glue gun and hot glue the pieces together forming the outside surface you want to cut your piece to. if you need to remove it but there isnt enough area to get the template back out aftergluing make registration marks on the areas you arent going to hot glue so you can realign the pieces on your plywood. much like putting a trap together, cut all the pieces, fir it together mark alignments for glue, glue and twist. If that doesnt make sense, let me know. Im not always real good at drawing a picture with words.
 

F14CRAZY

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Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

that makes sense to me..I'll keep that in mind.

When I go to drill holes in my stringers to see how solid they are beneath the glass, what do I use to plug them? Like a cork or something? Then if they're good I need to...oh heck I need to read the West System manual again
 

ondarvr

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Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

rngale

Sounds like you have a good deal of experience in boat repair or building, it's always good to have more expertise here.


Greenwood boat panels are PT plywood designed for the marine industry and they work very well, they use the previous type of treatment and are dry when you get them. Making foam panels can work well, the problem is it can be time consuming, very expensive, will require more expertise than most here have to do it correctly and will be beyond what's needed for this type of repair.
 

hemidoc

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Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

once you get the floor up be sure to check the motor mounts after the stringers. I don't remember what prompted me to cut mine open but I found one rotted to mulch(and I replaced it with the engine still in the boat).

The three things to keep in mind about pressure treated wood are It warps, it's hard to find a stright piece and if you do it'll warp if you look at it. I used some 1/2 pt for my project and had some parts that had to be scrapped due to warpage. I used 3/4 subfloor t&g for the deck in my BLiner and it's solid. It's a little more wieght but it's not much
 

rngale

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Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

ondarvr,

Do the greenwood panel manufacturers gaurantee that u can laminte to them without a large risk of delamination and failure? Or are they designed to be installed as is with out encapsulation?

As far as foam panels go that was just another option. The same thing can be done with balsa core, marine ply, of even ext grade if so desired. The beauty of a small layup table also allows for making hatches as well by hot glueing stips to form a lip and u can make the radius with regual modeling clay. Im not trying to confuse anyone here, but if interested in learning how its done professionaly, im more than happy to talk you guys through it.

:)
 

Mark42

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Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Pt wood of any type in a boat is not a good Choice. The chemicals in it are toxic to start with, it prevents polyester and epoxy resin from forming a good bond and its heavy....

I have to disagree with your here. Over the years many iboats member have done tests with PT vs regular ply. The PT held the poly or epoxy resin with no problems. In fact, if you search these forums, I doubt you will find one post where someone is complaining or stating that their glass work fell off or loosened from PT wood. In fact, many manufacturers have now switched to pressure treated wood in their boats where water is an issue (stringers, bulkheads, transom). As far as PT being heavy, that is most likely due to the high water content after manufacture. If you buy from indoor lumberyards, PT is usually dry. And regarding the toxic chemicals, after you install the PT wood, it is encapsulated in polyester or epoxy, so the average boater will not have bare skin contact with it anyway. If its safe enough to build deck floors and railings, and kids swingsets from, its safe for use in the floor of your boat.

I think the references you make are from years ago when people slapped resin on wet PT and it did not stick well. Now everyone knows to be sure the PT is dry before use.

It would be foolish to not consider using PT in a rebuild.

Regards,

Mark
 

Mark42

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Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

One other aspect of PT I wanted to mention...

I have read over and over that stainless fasteners should not be used on PT lumber. In 1995 I built a large deck on my house using all pt lumber and stainless steel screws. A year ago when I started reading the warnings in this forum about stainless and PT, I went out to my deck and removed a few screws to inspect them. Many were not able to budge due to the floor decking having shrunk and binding on the screws, but the few I did get out showed no signs of corrosion. Thats 12 years of exposure to the outdoors in the north. So I have to say that my own personal experience with stainless and pt lumber shows that there was no corrosion whatsoever.
 

oops!

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Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

pt ply has been known to eat alum.....other than that.....its a fine choice for boat building........the only problem is when purchased from a local home type hardware store....its really wet....hence the weight......it needs to be dryed......a long time...if you dont dry it ...it wont take resin..and it can warp when its drying.......

if you dry it well and dont warp it......it is a fantastic material and i highly recommend it for the right curcumstances.

but as any one can see....there are a lot of options and opinions as far as boat building.
what the real deal is......is from the olden times the boat manufacturers used what ever they could for wood....even old pallets....and the manufacturers proved that just about anything would work....

the truth is........that most types of wood used here on the site will far outlast the owners desire to own the boat.
even lowly exterior grade plywood.....(tashasdaddys choice.....td is a veteran of more restos than i can count and imho....sitll one of the top restorers on this site).....once encapsulated in glass properly will last over 20 years.....done right....even 40 !

so why split hairs? pick the wood that is in your budget and will work in the situation you are in......ie.....dont use pt on alum....and why use marine ply on a 14 foot glass boat you only want to keep for 2 years when your budget for the whole project is 15 bucks !

heck......i ripped open my ray and found non glassed plywood sistered to rotten stringers.....with a deck thrown over it....i rescued that boat out of a farmers feild (after sitting for at least 5 years uncovered) and ran it for 8 years with out a problem !

we...here as amatures try to do the best we can, we arent naval engineers so we just over build as best we can.....thats why the pt ply encapsulated with 72 layers of 1708 and epoxy with stainless steel bolts........and thats just the seat mounts ! :D

but we all just have to keep it all in perspective.....do we all want to restore the boat to better than factory new........or do we just wanna go fishin????
if you wanna restore the boat....great.......but if we wanna go fishin!!!!!!!.
....i can do a deck in less than 8 hrs start to finish......and the uph and carpet in less than 10 !

just somthing to think about before we all get to anal over detailes

cheers
oops
 

F14CRAZY

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Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Thanks for the insight on PT wood. I've got the boat back here at the house and I'll try to post photos of what I'm trying to do and ask some more questions along with them.
 

F14CRAZY

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Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

I've been tearing into it since this morning...

I've drilled a few holes into the stringers and they're moist...not mulch but I know they've got to be replaced.

I haven't removed any glass from them but they're 2''x4'' right? Are there "marine" 2x4s? And as mentioned when I replace them I need to support the hull...how do I go about doing that? Its on its trailer right now.

I spose I'll have to see how the transom and motor mounts are too and determine if I need to pull the motor and sterndrive
 

oops!

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Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

14 plywood is stronger on its side than dimensional lumber.

but bud....its your boat....you can do whatever you want and use what ever you want in it. no limits :)
 

F14CRAZY

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Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

Re: Replacing Bayliner cuddy flooring

hmm now that I think of it that seems right since that's why there's those laminated engineered beams or whatever you call them for building construction...

so if I did use marine plywood for the stringers, would I put a four 1/2'' strips together to make a 2x4? Will I be screwing them together?
 
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