A Little Glassing Info Please

[Thompy_04]

Ok here's the case. I got ahold of my fathers 1978 Bayliner Santiago 2200, and it hasn't been used since 1997. I took a little look found the floor to be a little soft in a couple spots ripped it all out, completely and started rebuilding the stringers/deck componets. I have all the deck and stringers mocked up ready to be epoxied and glassed in. The transom was fine, as I have seen previous threads and checked that as well. Someone had done a resoration on this boat before my father picked it up, but he picked this boat up used in 1988 from my grandfathers boat shop and by the looks of the work they did use alot of glass but neglected a couple of areas and they boat was left uncovered.

My question is when I get ready to apply epoxy what type of epoxy should I use to coat the wood, how long do I let it set, and what type of glass should I use to mate it all together? I know there are many types of fiberglass, mat, chopped strands, etc. but I'm clueless on what to do here, never worked with fiberglass before. Since I haven't worked with fiberglass or epoxy resin, whats a good temperature to work at? I'm in southern Ohio and have no way to use a heated garage. I'm concerned about flotation as well, I did take out some foam just not as much as thought was going to be there. Whats a general rule for pouring expandable foam? Is there a trick to not "blow out" my work?

Sorry so long but I think thats the extent of my questions, thanks in advance.

 

[rebuilt]

Re: A Little Glassing Info Please

Man, I hate to do this, cuz it sounds like you're raring to go. 1st off, there is more than one kind of resin. Epoxy is just one type, polyester is another, vinylester still another. Each one has is merits for a given application. I believe a good book or two is what's in order here. From where you're at to where you need to go is much more than a couple of quick posts will do. I'm gonna recommend two books I've found very valuable. One I got from Amazon, the other is available here at Iboats, or Amazon. The 1st is an easy, informative read. It's called "Fiberglass repair-Polyester or Epoxy". By David and Zora Aiken. ISBN # 978-0-87033-567-9. The other is a more technically oriented book, more in depth, and a longer read. It's called "The Fiberglass Boat Repair Manual" by Allan H. Vaitses. ISBN # 0-07-156914-6. Between these two publications is an absolute wealth of information. I'll tell ya up front, preparation is EVERYTHING. In my experience, foreknowledge is a type of preparation in itself. Forewarned is forearmed. It's a learning curve, to be sure. Good luck. KR

 

[Thompy_04]

Re: A Little Glassing Info Please

Thats why I did my homework. I've been reading for about 2 months, and trying to get a handle on what I'm doing. I've got things together litterally ready to be put in, but I need some info on resin (whether epoxy resin or polyester) and fiberglassing but I know I can get some kind of clue on here. I've spent alot, manuals, wood, etc... so I'm looking for some info I thought this was gonna be easy LOL!

 

[rebuilt]

Re: A Little Glassing Info Please

Long post.Ok.... some pics would be helpful. I can give ya what I've learned. I drove 18 wheeler for awhile, and know for a fact the Buckeye can get pretty cold. That being said, I don't know what your budget can stand. Epoxy is a lot more temp tolerant than poly. If you have to work outside, you may be forced to buy epoxy. It costs a lot more than poly, but offers a better mechanical bond to whatever you're glassing to. That being said, your hull is made of polyester resin. So poly will do nicely. The stringers don't have to be pre-coated, some choose to precoat the underside of the decking ply. When you go to glass the topside of the deck in, thinned poly can be used to seal the pores of the plywood, so it doesn't drink up the resin and pull it from the glass.I've read up to 10% thinner. Poly thinned with acetone is what a lot of guys use. I like to keep the mekp ratio right at 1%. I'm using plain old Elmers and Bondo polyester resin from Lowe's and Autozone. The stuff goes off pretty quick at 2%, not much pot life. Mat is nice for strength, but is doesn't shape real well in tight corners or a small radius. It tends to come apart the more you work it. The adhesive used to hold it together is made to dissolve in poly resin. If I'm not mistaken, mat is not recommended for epoxy. Cloth is nice for a smooth finish, and roving is nice for fast build or bulk strength..Proper prep work is the key. This goes in the for what it's worth column. I don't have any hard scientific data to back it up. Just my own observations. I personally believe that this whole poly-mechanical bond thing is completely overhyped. Properly prepped, seriously scuffed and acetoned cured poly will bond with new virgin poly just fine. When a new cured hull comes down the assembly line, its this much maligned mechanical bond that ties all of the new inner glass work to the hull. They don't slam a new deck into a sticky-"green" hull. As I was tearing down a 30 yr old boat, the deck was a royal pain to get free from the hull. It had been glassed with a chopper gun on the underside in places to the inside of the hull. A large prybar wouldn't break the bond. It had to be cut out. In the process of grinding the old stuff out, I could see the original scuff job that allowed the bond. It was very, very, course.I would love to see some sheer strength breakage data comparing epoxy to poly, with the same type of glass used for both.. I am of the opinion its a lab thing. Guys have been fixing boats with poly for years. As far as the two part pourable foam, it is definetely temp sensitive. If I remember right, 60 is the minimum, 80 is recomended. The colder it is, the less it expands. US Composites is where I got mine. Google it. It comes right up. The guys name is Mark, and he was very helpful. There is a site that gives the formula for how much to use, but I lost the link. 2 lb pourable is all the Coast Guard requires. In optimum conditions, 2lb is supposed to expand up to 25 times by volume. Higher densities do not offer more flotation, as I once thought, they are just denser, more firm, offer more structural support and are heavier per cubic foot of expanded foam. They are also incrementally more expensive. 4 lb is about twice as much as 2 pound. And so on. 1 square foot of 2 lb expanded offers roughly 60lbs of flotation. I'm going to augment mine with pink closed cell builders foam. I don't see how you can "blow out" your project. But you may have to wait for warmer weather if you go with poly. There have been a lot of posts, with the change in weather, on temp limitations of poly. I've read a minimum of 50 degrees more than once, but I had it cure just fine at 40 one night. I don't think I'd go less than that. You can get into over catylizing and that whole deal. I know this one got kinda wordy. I apologize for that. You touched on a number of different topics. It takes a little to go into each one. Plus my own soapboxing. Take a look at the pics in the links below. It may give you some ideas. After what I cut up, or screwed up, or had to repair, I'm absolutely confident that anyone can work with poly. I am still amazed at the stuff. There is nothing you can do that can't be fixed, ground out, and redone. Short of cutting your boat in half amidships. Even then, I think that could be repaired. I'm no expert. But she's come a long way. Some of the stuff I've told you is just parroted. Some is learned the hard way. Good luck. KR