Help needed to bring back the Shine!

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zul

Petty Officer 1st Class
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So many different methods and products.

My boat is a 1994 and it may have never seen a coat of wax. I've had this boat for 2 years and it's got some dull color all around and some oxidation stains on the water line. I am a total novice at this and the research is head spinning. I have decided that I would like to NOT go through coumpounds or wet sanding. I am a handy DIY sorta person but wet sanding could go very wrong.

From my online forum searching, it seems that there are old products and old ways to bring back the shine and then there are new 'all in one' products that seem too good to be true.

So, the current plan:

1. Soap and clean the boat
2. Acetone rag and rub
3. 3M Marine Cleaner & Wax #09009

https://www.amazon.com/3M-09009-Mar...=UTF8&qid=1544215366&sr=8-2&keywords=3m+09009

And then I'm done? Does that 3M product allow for me to skip the final wax job? What about Polishing?
Other product suggestions?

Oh yeah, I've got a small chip/gouge in the fiberglass that I'd like to take a shot at fixing. All's I've got for that is the real basic Bondo Glass from HomeDepot, which seems like the right product? -- got any suggestions on that? Or is the fiberglass fill/fix harder than it looks?

Thanks Crew!!

zul
 

chevymaher

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LOL it is gel coat. Sand it. It takes alot of effort to get it to come off. And you got warning. It starts getting thin you got another half hour before you go through.

Get a sponge block sander. Wet sand with 600, Sand a little then take a squeegee to it. It dries even a darker color go to 1000 grit then 3000 and use meguires ultra cut to buff. Then wax.

Been there done that. Believe me gel coat is tough and it isn't coming off without a long long fight. No easy way out either. No magic tonics or potions. It takes elbow grease and hard work.

Color stripe on this boat took me a week a side to get it looking like new. Not counting all the white which was another story.

You can do it. Find a little hidden spot and practice. PM me call I aint afraid to talk. Hell you can't shut me up. I will post pictures of the supplies needed. Tools needed. Whatever I can do to help.

Just remember once you do get the gel coat straightened out it takes very little to keep it that way. Ardex Ocean Polymer is very easy to put on and shine up once it is done. It is a UV Protectant. Awsome stuff. Need to get more myself I am putting it on my trucks and chevelle and van. Love the stuff.
 

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sphelps

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Yeah just depends on how bad it’s oxidated .. Might get away with just the compound and wax ..
 

harringtondav

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chevymaher speaks truth. Gel coat is tough and deep enough to take sanding And old oxide chalking takes sanding. I recommend Abralon foam backed pads on a dual action sander. Keep them wet. You can find a 500-3000 grit assortment on eBay. If your pockets are deep enough I believe they have 4000 grit pads.

If you don't have a DA sander/polisher you can start with 600 grit wet paper and work your way up to 1500 grit. Then go with Meguiars Unigrit wet paper and work from 1500 -2000-3000. I finish with 3M 'Perfect It' machine polish with my DA Porter Cable 6" sander/polisher. Then top it off with an hand applied coat of Liquid Glass Ultimate Auto Polish.

My 22 yr old boat has lived outdoors, and with touch ups with the Meguiars 3000 and the rest, it looks factory fresh. I did some gelcoat patch work. Started with 150-200 to break down the orange peel, and went with the above program. Seamless gloss.
 

tpenfield

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Be careful with the Acetone . . .it will soften / dissolve the gelcoat.

I am not a big believer in sanding gelcoat, because the more you sand, the less you got. If you want a lazy man's approach, you can try PoliGlow (prep and glow) to give the boat a shine. For a Poor man's approach to that, you can also use ZEP Wet Look floor wax instead of PoliGlow. It will last for a few years, and if you don't like it, you can use the floor wax stripper to get rid of it.

For the chip in the fiberglass (gelcoat) you want a gelcoat patch kit . . . (not Bondo Glass)
 

gm280

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So you want a great shiny finish, but don't want to sand or polish. Wow, that limits your choices really bad. I personally don't know of anything that could possible make it look great without elbow grease. If there were such a process, everybody would be doing it and it would be the number one fix all promoted everywhere. Fact is, you get out of the finish what you are willing to put in. The dull finish is the sun's UV deteriorating the Gel Coat. And if you don't remove that first, it will look faded and never like it once was. JMHO
 

harringtondav

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The dull finish is the sun's UV deteriorating the Gel Coat. And if you don't remove that first, it will look faded and never like it once was. JMHO

Yes. The oxide/chalking layer is only a few .001" deep. I'd guess .003" max. But gel coat is tough. You'll grow old trying to cut through with a rubbing compound. That's why I recommend wet sanding. Factory gel coat is around .020" thick min. So once you cut through the neglect and restore gloss you can maintain it with occasional polishing compound followed by wax, or use a polishing wax. That process may remove a few .0001".

A coarser grit cuts through fast, but you want to end at 2000 grit min, 3000 grit is better. (Meguiars Unigrit). You have to resand with following passes of a finer grit to remove the sanding marks. I'd pick a test area, start with 1500 grit wet/dry just long enough to see original color. Then resand with finer grits with as small an change in grit size as you can find. Rinse with clean water between passes. Keystone or other auto body stores have a selection. You won't be removing much glass, just the peaks of the previous sanding. When you reach 2000-3000 grit apply the polishing compound or polishing wax. If you don't like the gloss keep on sanding with finer grits.
 

zul

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Aug 24, 2015
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Alright, with all the great suggestions, I am getting closer to understanding the different processes. I am still reluctant to wet sand so I'm going to start with a compound. If the compound doesn't work well enough, can I start over and wet sand?

I'm skipping the Acetone, seems unnecessary and could create a problem if I overdue it. So a good basic soap wash and onto the compound.

Compound: I've got a recommendation on 'Reel Shine Restructure' but it's $47 for 32oz. Can someone suggest a less expensive compound? 3M has some products for a bit less, anyone know how the products compare? And I'm still clueless on what pad(s) to buy for the compound? Boat is only 18 ft long, so one pad gets this done?

Do I need to buy a separate Polish and polishing pad? (Fine Polishing Pad by 3M #05733)

I don't have a buffer/sander yet -- and once again -- so many different types, models and features. What features do I need in a dual action sander? Is there a low cost 'do it all'? I'm willing to spend up if there's a 'best product'.

I'm getting on track for the fiberglass repair (Thanks @tpenfield) and I know that I will have to wet sand to get that job done. What grit/range wet sand paper should I get for this? With 2 small patches to do, I'll be doing this with a sponge block by hand.

For the final wax job, I'm going with Meguiars Flagship Premium Marine Wax. Once again, will I need a new/different pad for this?

I'm willing to put in the work. And I know it'll look showroom shine once I'm done. Maybe I'll put up a 'before' photo later today? Next step is to buy all this sh!t and do a test spot.

Thanks again for all the advice and suggestions!!
 

chevymaher

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Yes you can start over and wet sand. Find a small place that is hidden to practice on. I went under the swim deck. I wouldnt use a sander on it. Hand sand with a sponge block.

I did mine with 1000 and 3000 and buffed. well that left lettering and sticker ghost. So I redid the entire side.

Harbor freight has 3 of 4 items shown. ardex is off of e bay. Spnge sanding block and sandpaper is at a auto paint supply,. My 1500 and 3000 were actually sponges. I can go down and get pictures but it seems your going a different direction.

And that is fine. Let me know if you want to see the products i used.
 

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harringtondav

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Do I need to buy a separate Polish and polishing pad? (Fine Polishing Pad by 3M #05733)

I don't have a buffer/sander yet -- and once again -- so many different types, models and features. What features do I need in a dual action sander? Is there a low cost 'do it all'? I'm willing to spend up if there's a 'best product'.

I'm getting on track for the fiberglass repair (Thanks @tpenfield) and I know that I will have to wet sand to get that job done. What grit/range wet sand paper should I get for this?

For the final wax job, I'm going with Meguiars Flagship Premium Marine Wax. Once again, will I need a new/different pad for this?

1. I use three different "stiffness" pads. Cutting, polishing, finessing. I don't want to cross contaminate a fine pass with residue from a coarser pad.

2. I use a 6" hook and loop variable speed DA sander polisher. Any will work fine. The $$ price will determine how long it lasts. Mine: https://www.amazon.com/PORTER-CABLE...&sr=8-4&keywords=porter+cable+sander+polisher

Less expensive an probably good enough: https://www.harborfreight.com/6-in-57-amp-heavy-duty-dual-action-variable-speed-polisher-69924.html

3. Gel coat doesn't 'self level' like paint. The surface will be rough. I start with 150 grit until the surface is level and free of voids. Then baby-step up through the finer grits.

4. See #1 above. I hand apply and hand buff off the wax. I may be loopy, but I believe I get a better finish this way.
 

gm280

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Polishing anything, whether a boat, a vehicle or even wood, takes starting from course sandpaper to get everything to one level of finish. Then once you get it there and the imperfections are removed, then you go up in the grit number and remove the previous grit marks. And then go up again and remove those grit marks and so on 'til you start to see a shine come on. Then switch to a polish system and basically do the same. A shine comes from finer and finer grit until it is beyond swirl marks. And then you have to apply something to keep that new shine from fading as fast. It will fade again, because that is how things work. The sun doesn't care how much work you applied, it starts UV fade the minute to expose it to the sunlight. Covering and keeping the boat out of direct sunlight helps a ton. JMHO I realize you don't want to put in a lot of elbow grease. But I can tell you, once you start seeing the results, you will want to continue for that pride of seeing it shine like new. It is addictive indeed. And a bonus is the value of your boat will certainly go up!
 

Panoguy

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I sanded with 800, then 1500, then used a product called Aqua-Buff with a random orbital polisher. I brushed-on the Aqua-buff, and squirted it with H2O when it started to dry. Results are amazing!!
 

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zul

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I am going through this learning and buying process, not only for the boat but for the new truck as well. Now, after buying a new truck, cash is tighter than normal, so I'm trying to save a few bucks and not use the wrong stuff here ...

Can I use the Meguiars auto polish and wax on the boat? Or is it "boat products for the boat" and "auto products for the truck" ??

It looks like I will start on the boat with Meguiar's Ultra Cut Compound (not to be used on the car, it has abrasives!)

So, I am buying a Dual Action (aka Random Orbital Sander) and all of the chemicals and pads on a budget, it will cost me about $175 to do the boat (cutting compound, polish and wax).

This will leave me with several new and unused pads. Gets the truck done for an extra $40.
 

chevymaher

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I used meguiars ultra cut. After sanding. I can't imagine it looking like anything if you dont color sand. Sticker ghost and fade isnt coming out unless you buff for a week in one spot. Trust me I tried it isn't happening. All boat detailing instruction videos say to sand it.

I got my buffer and meguiars from harbor freight. Like you i got other things going on in life and am on a budget.
 

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dingbat

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These guys came to one of our SportFishng club meetings last year. Their talk and demonstration on the restoration and care of gel coat was very informative and eye opening.

Most enlightening was the need for variable speed rotary buffer. An orbital sander doesn’t cut it....litterly.

Went out and bought a variable speed buffer from Harbor Freight for $70. Works like a charm.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PJLXFNmGy60

https://www.smoovewax.com/product-page/pro-cut-1000-professional-polishing-compound
 

zul

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I am confused. Wet sanding is the top method. Next in line, which is it? An orbital sander or random orbital? Which provides the next best result? I'm just not sure?? Random or straight spin?

Does one provide better results? Is one easier and safer than the other???

thx.
 

chevymaher

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Doing this there is no easier and safer. Got to do the job.

As you see mine was hammered to the Nth degree. Depends on how yours is.

Worse it is the more material you got to take off to return it to new looking. Secret is a good UV Protectant wax once it is straightened out. I use Ardex Ocean Polymer. Expensive but is the best.

Variable speed buffer is best. Spinning type.

From simplest cant mess it up to most material off in order.

Vibrating sander with ultra cut. This is fiberglass not paint nothing practically is coming off. It will be shineyer but any fade is still there. Impossible practically to mess it up.

Variable speed buffer spin type cuts more off faster. It is hard to do but it could burn the surface if you go to fast and overheat it to long. This is the method to use every few years with rubbing compound. Just quickly go over the boat to take off oxidation then re wax it. Simple maintenance if it has been cared for immaculately.

Now once you move into hammered territory like I was. Previous owner never waxed it let it sit in the sun with no cover for 20 years. You got to sand first. I would block sand with a sponge sanding block and squeegie it off and watch it dry. It instantly dries evenly the same color it is ready to move on to the next paper of higher number. Wet it should be the correct color.

It is safe to wet sand starting with 1000 grit. Again this isnt paint it is actual fiberglass with a pigment in it. It isnt coming off fast or easy just be cafeful you be fine. Look on You Tube for Gel Coat Restorations. When you find the guy with the powder blue fuggly boat you hit pay dirt. He shows you to start with coarse and move down when they are that bad.

On mine i sanded and buffed the color stripe 1000 1500 3000 buff. It left ghost where the call letters and numbers were. I went to 600 then repeated the steps to re buff. Start easy then if it needs more by then you are getting the hang of it.

It all depends on how well it been cared for. What you are happy with. To how much work you need. If the faded color just shiney as heck is good for you buff it out and wax it call it a day. But to remove ghost of stickers and rid the faded color your going to sand. One side of mine took a week sanding and buffing just the wine color. If you buff only it literally would take years and thousands in rubbing compound to get it to where it is in the second pic. LOL you be buying buffers like we do grinders doing the hull.
 

zul

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Bought all my products and realized I got the wrong orbital polisher. It is the random orbital instead of the direct spin model that I was hoping for. I understand that the direct spin will produce more cutting into the gel coat. And some forum posts say the random orbital "won't cut it" (haha)

So, I've got a batch of sandpaper but still too chicken little to go whole hog on that method.

So, should I return the random orbital and purchase a direct drive? Or go with what I've got??

((I also purchased separate product for auto. Will be also polishing 2 old cars and 1 new truck.))

?? Thanks ??
 
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I would recommend a compounding with “ Super-Cut heavy duty compound “. I would then wash the boat, then apply Restructure Marine nanotechnology Product to the entire boat, “ hull, all smooth fiberglass areas on topsides, windows, chrome, etc…”
This is a Rinker that we did just that to a few years back. Owner was completely satisfied and came back each year to get errr done the same exact way!
Much luck to you👍
 

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dingbat

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Imagine the look of horror on the owner’s face when he looks out and sees “Harry Legs” heading out to detail his yacht with a sanding block and a jar of Vaseline….lol

Unless the gel is completely trashed, I’d suggest using any of the marine/gel specific compounds and a 7”- variable speed polisher with the appropriate pad.

Would also recommend using a good quality marine wax when you done. I’ve tried them all but keep going back to good old Collinite Fleetwax. Nothing looks better or holds up better than Fleetwax
 
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