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  • I just realized something . . . If I use the pump buckets that Scott suggested, and considering that the mold will be fully enclosed in plastic, there will be little, if any fumes in the air.

    This could become an eco-friendly project
    Best regards, Ted . . . . Cape Cod, MA

    Current Boats: Formula 330 Sun Sport, O'Day Mariner Sail #3224, Sunfish
    Past Boats: Catalina 22 Sail #10531, Formula 242 Sun Sport
    Twin Mercruiser 7.4 LX MPI (0F802036, 039), Bravo 3's (0F806198, 199), Mercury 7.5 HP (1969), Johnson 4.5 HP (1980)

    My Boating Web Pages: http://www.tpenfield.com

    Comment


    • Originally posted by fishrdan View Post
      Been lurking on your progress from the beginning, heck of a project! I'm not an expert on vacuum bagging, never done it, but a couple of thoughts.

      What are you using as a source of vacuum? I see a shop vac in the back ground, is that it? I would think you'll need a better source for vacuum, a real vacuum pump. I've borrowed one from the local chain auto parts store for car AC work, though not sure it would have the capacity for the platform, and I wouldn't tell them you're using it for polyresin vacuum bagging...

      Infusion and vacuum at the same time, I think that would be a disaster, unless you have some way to accurately control to pressure and cut it off when needed. Again, never done bagging, but that's just my perception.

      Using the wrong viscosity of resin might be a stumbling block. Any option to return what you haven't used and get a thinner resin?
      I am using a shop vac for the vacuum. It seems to work fine . . . I take the vacuum tube and insert into the hose of the vacuum, so the shop vacuum is pulling external air as well. I can regulate the pressure by how far I put the vacuum tube into the hose of the shop vac.

      I supposed I could get a vacuum gauge to see what the internal pressure drop is. I figure if I get down to about 1/2 an atmosphere (7 psi) it should be good. I won't be doing the platform mold for a couple of weeks, so I can do some testing and check out some options.

      A bigger challenge with pieces of this size is ensuring no air leaks in the bagging material and related seal.

      The only other vacuum bagging project that I have done was the fiberglass pram dinghy that I made back in 2011. I tend to go through a few shop vacs


      Best regards, Ted . . . . Cape Cod, MA

      Current Boats: Formula 330 Sun Sport, O'Day Mariner Sail #3224, Sunfish
      Past Boats: Catalina 22 Sail #10531, Formula 242 Sun Sport
      Twin Mercruiser 7.4 LX MPI (0F802036, 039), Bravo 3's (0F806198, 199), Mercury 7.5 HP (1969), Johnson 4.5 HP (1980)

      My Boating Web Pages: http://www.tpenfield.com

      Comment


      • thin resin i bet problem will be solved,

        I have also come to realize that gel coats need at least 2% catalyst, otherwise it sits there and laughs at you.
        ^^ true story! i watched Gel coat for a day once cause i was worried about heat and went 1% now i don't even bother going under 2% and still it takes off when it decides too lol.
        project:https://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat-...r-2159-hardtop
        Previous project https://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat...rint-bass-boat
        Previous previous project/conversion https://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat...rsion-splashed

        Comment


        • I found a vacuum pump that has very good ratings and seems to pull about 25-30 Hg according to the reviews. It seems to fall within the spec's recommended on the fiberglass web sites, in terms of capacity, etc. for this size of job.

          Click image for larger version  Name:	vacuumpump.jpg Views:	1 Size:	35.4 KB ID:	10704801

          I have this pump, some extra oil, and a gauge on order for around $110 . So, it seems worth it to get this for the project.

          This should be a lot better vacuum, and give the shop vac a rest

          Thanks fishrdan for the suggestion.
          Best regards, Ted . . . . Cape Cod, MA

          Current Boats: Formula 330 Sun Sport, O'Day Mariner Sail #3224, Sunfish
          Past Boats: Catalina 22 Sail #10531, Formula 242 Sun Sport
          Twin Mercruiser 7.4 LX MPI (0F802036, 039), Bravo 3's (0F806198, 199), Mercury 7.5 HP (1969), Johnson 4.5 HP (1980)

          My Boating Web Pages: http://www.tpenfield.com

          Comment


          • Originally posted by mickyryan View Post
            thin resin i bet problem will be solved,

            I have also come to realize that gel coats need at least 2% catalyst, otherwise it sits there and laughs at you.
            ^^ true story! i watched Gel coat for a day once cause i was worried about heat and went 1% now i don't even bother going under 2% and still it takes off when it decides too lol.
            Yes, one of the bottles of catalyst that I have states. . . " 1.5% for polyester and VE resins, 2% for gelcoats "
            Best regards, Ted . . . . Cape Cod, MA

            Current Boats: Formula 330 Sun Sport, O'Day Mariner Sail #3224, Sunfish
            Past Boats: Catalina 22 Sail #10531, Formula 242 Sun Sport
            Twin Mercruiser 7.4 LX MPI (0F802036, 039), Bravo 3's (0F806198, 199), Mercury 7.5 HP (1969), Johnson 4.5 HP (1980)

            My Boating Web Pages: http://www.tpenfield.com

            Comment


            • I also ordered a viscosity measuring cup and a pint of styrene resin thinner. You can't really thin the resin much without adverse effects, but maybe 3-5% would be the limit. I also understand that the VE resin is thinner than poly resin . . . we shall see. From what I have been able to research, these resins have about 35% styrene content.

              The credit card is getting a work-out and is becoming exhausted.
              Best regards, Ted . . . . Cape Cod, MA

              Current Boats: Formula 330 Sun Sport, O'Day Mariner Sail #3224, Sunfish
              Past Boats: Catalina 22 Sail #10531, Formula 242 Sun Sport
              Twin Mercruiser 7.4 LX MPI (0F802036, 039), Bravo 3's (0F806198, 199), Mercury 7.5 HP (1969), Johnson 4.5 HP (1980)

              My Boating Web Pages: http://www.tpenfield.com

              Comment


              • Ted,

                one of these rubber caps fits perfectly over the hose from a shop vac. then drill a few holes in it and you can have multiple vacuum tubes.

                https://www.homedepot.com/p/2-in-PVC...-102/100372303



                A shop vac is good for an initial high-volume evacuation of air, however will be limited in how low of a vacuum it can pull before the fan stalls. the vac pump will draw down significantly more
                Cheesehead boating the Gulf Coast of FLA 27.51° N, 82.53° W

                1988 Cruisers Rogue 2420 -VP 290 DP now powered by custom 468 - https://forums.iboats.com/forum/owner...988-rogue-2420

                Past Boats
                1970 Wooster Hellion - Merc 9.8
                2002 SeaRay 190BR - 5.0 - A1G2 - "Cheeseheads in Paradise"
                1984 Avanti 170DLI -3.0 stringer- "Ship Happens"

                What’s behind you doesn’t matter.Enzo Ferrari

                Comment


                • Originally posted by tpenfield View Post
                  I found a vacuum pump that has very good ratings and seems to pull about 25-30 Hg according to the reviews. It seems to fall within the spec's recommended on the fiberglass web sites, in terms of capacity, etc. for this size of job.

                  [ATTACH=JSON]{"alt":"Click image for larger version Name:\tvacuumpump.jpg Views:\t1 Size:\t35.4 KB ID:\t10704801","data-align":"none","data-attachmentid":"10704801","data-size":"full"**[/ATTACH]

                  I have this pump, some extra oil, and a gauge on order for around $110 . So, it seems worth it to get this for the project.

                  This should be a lot better vacuum, and give the shop vac a rest

                  Thanks fishrdan for the suggestion.
                  I have a similar vac pump, not to expensive either. They work well. I wouldn't even think about using a shop vac for infusion. I've tested a few runs with it on a small scale, it worked well.
                  If ya can't fix it with a hammer,ya got yourself an electrical problem.

                  Comment


                  • The idea of pressurizing the resin to force it into the vacuum bag/mold has got me thinking . . . Under vacuum, one of the things that works against the resin flow, is the compression of the fibers as a result of the vacuum. So the resin flows only at the rate at which the cloth/mat can absorb it.

                    I am wondering how a process modification would work, where the vacuum is reduced or nearly eliminated for a couple of minutes, while the resin is pumped under pressure into the mold, then once the resin has been injected, the vacuum is re-applied to force the resin throughout the mold area. Not sure if that will work . . . perhaps I can do some research to see if anyone has tried variations of the common vacuum/infusion theme.

                    Just thinking out load . . . I could always try it on the ladder hatches to see if it will work.
                    Best regards, Ted . . . . Cape Cod, MA

                    Current Boats: Formula 330 Sun Sport, O'Day Mariner Sail #3224, Sunfish
                    Past Boats: Catalina 22 Sail #10531, Formula 242 Sun Sport
                    Twin Mercruiser 7.4 LX MPI (0F802036, 039), Bravo 3's (0F806198, 199), Mercury 7.5 HP (1969), Johnson 4.5 HP (1980)

                    My Boating Web Pages: http://www.tpenfield.com

                    Comment


                    • I have one of these - twin 4" inlets that will suck the wings off an eagle lol

                      Click image for larger version

Name:	dust collector.jpg
Views:	1
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ID:	10704872
                      - Eric

                      Somers, WI

                      Old enough to know better - but crazy enough to try anyway

                      Comment


                      • Nice, I could have used a vacuum of that sort with all the sanding I have done. . . dust is everywhere Did I mention that I hate sanding . . . I also put grinding (fiberglass) in that category too.

                        I found an article pertaining to my latest thought process . . . it is called "Dynamic Pressure Control in VARTM" .

                        I'm not able to access the complete article, but the intro talks about reducing the vacuum pressure during resin infusion to speed up the flow of resin into the fiber. Then once the resin is injected, resume the high levels of vacuum to saturate the part. Resin infusion times are cut in half and there are improvements to the resulting part. I'm all in, if that be the case.

                        I'm going to see if I can get access to the full article.

                        Best regards, Ted . . . . Cape Cod, MA

                        Current Boats: Formula 330 Sun Sport, O'Day Mariner Sail #3224, Sunfish
                        Past Boats: Catalina 22 Sail #10531, Formula 242 Sun Sport
                        Twin Mercruiser 7.4 LX MPI (0F802036, 039), Bravo 3's (0F806198, 199), Mercury 7.5 HP (1969), Johnson 4.5 HP (1980)

                        My Boating Web Pages: http://www.tpenfield.com

                        Comment


                        • http://www.advancedprocess.com/vartm...nsfer-molding/
                          Most times I'm wrong, Most times I stand corrected..But...Sometimes I'm right.
                          1983 SportCraft Deep V OSFF 222 Cuddy Rehab
                          https://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat-...ddy-walkaround
                          https://forums.iboats.com/forum/engin...-new-fuel-pump
                          www.flotationfoamsolutions.com

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by oldrem View Post
                            I have one of these - twin 4" inlets that will suck the wings off an eagle lol

                            [ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"medium","data-attachmentid":10704872**[/ATTACH]
                            reminds me of a a gal i once knew her problem was she chased too many eagles
                            project:https://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat-...r-2159-hardtop
                            Previous project https://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat...rint-bass-boat
                            Previous previous project/conversion https://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat...rsion-splashed

                            Comment




                            • Ted, I had no idea you were using a shop vac as a vacuum source... When I first read the post, I thought you were joking lol. A shop vac isn't going to pull nearly enough vacuum to pull resin through the mold.

                              A job like this is going to require an actual vacuum pump or the alternative would be a vacuum generator (This is what I use for my vacuum press for wood veneering). It uses your air compressor to create a vacuum, I know, sounds like black magic lol. Its basically a big venturi valve and as long as you have a respectable size compressor, it will pull nearly the same amount of vacuum as a pump. I can get down to 27 or 28 inHg. They can be had on ebay for like 30 bucks.
                              1996 Bayliner Capri 2050 40th Anniv Edition - 5.7 Merc - UNDER CONSTRUCTION

                              Check out my Youtube channel for a documentation of my 96 Bayliner restoration:
                              https://www.youtube.com/user/jross82785

                              How to rebuild a 2 barrel Mercarb:
                              https://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...ructions-video

                              Comment


                              • Sign up today
                                Yes. . . Guilty as charged

                                I figured for the small parts, like the hatches, a partial vacuum would be OK, and it was. For the main platform, I have a vacuum pump on order.

                                I'm thinking of using my compressor to give the resin pots a little 'boost' during the infusion.
                                Best regards, Ted . . . . Cape Cod, MA

                                Current Boats: Formula 330 Sun Sport, O'Day Mariner Sail #3224, Sunfish
                                Past Boats: Catalina 22 Sail #10531, Formula 242 Sun Sport
                                Twin Mercruiser 7.4 LX MPI (0F802036, 039), Bravo 3's (0F806198, 199), Mercury 7.5 HP (1969), Johnson 4.5 HP (1980)

                                My Boating Web Pages: http://www.tpenfield.com

                                Comment

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