1987 Searay Seville Cuddy Restoration - stringer and engine mounts

[Broaters]

Hello

I've been reading a lot of posts on the forum so I think it's now good time to start our own.

a bit of background on this new thread: we purchased the boat in oct 2016 with the trailer and 2 engines (one V6 and one V8). The look was fairly good, the hull looks sound and the trailer looks solid so we decided to give it a try altough we had little knowledge about boats in general.




The boat was equipped with a Merc 4.3 V6 which was out of order (ruined crank) and a spare Merc 5.7 V8 that the previous owner purchased as a replacement but never installed.
The V8 was seized from improper storage but looked ok, we will later discover that it was not...

So far we focussed on rebuilding the engine, it tooks us a bit of time but it's now running fine and waiting for its installation into the hull (I'll try to cover the 5.7 rebuild into one other post). That's what brings me to this thread.

While looking on the boat how to adapt/install new engine mounts, we found rotted wood (how strange !) so we are now looking at rebuilding the boat itself.

Bare with me if the post/picture format is not optimal yet, I'm new to this too.

rotted wood pics and questions to come soon

 

[tpenfield]

:welcome: . . . to the dry dock.

We have a few boat rebuilds finishing up, so there is plenty of 'space' for the next few to come along Lots of threads to read through, which I'm sure you have done or are doing. Looking forward to the pictures and tagging along.

 

[Broaters]

a few more general pics of the boat

 

[chevymaher]

Good looking boat. I had moral support. A buddy did a 1966 Chriscraft and he assures me it is well worth the time and effort.

I was told my engine needed work when I got it. Turned out the engine is fine it was the boat that needed it.

 

[Broaters]

Ok on to the rotten wood:

this is the bilge area when we picked up the boat:



about 3" of water sitting in there. It may have alert us but ... it doesn't

We drained it, degreased it and hot pressure washed all the gunk
We removed the fuel tanks to get in cleaned from the old fuel too and started to investigate on how to move the engine mount fwd for the new engine.
that's when we discovered the soft spots in the corner between the stringer and the transom.

after a few digging behind the fiberglass it was clear that the stringer were shot



we also removed a small section of the deck to have a better view of the damage, here is how it looks like with the wood removed



and a view from the top



What you can see left from the original stringers is only fiberglass. the plywood is completely gone but it appears that it was very thin, maybe 1/4".

what is also strange is that the inner glassing is not joining the hull all the way as you can see some foam on the rear bottom corner, and this is the same on the other side.
however the fiberglass does a kind of step before joining the deck level where it extends maybe 10" over the foam and the stops. there was another piece of plywood (about 1" thick) in the step, some kind of clatter I believe.

I cannot understand how they build that in factory, how can it be glassed to the deck and to the stringer/hull at the same time? there is no access once the deck is on. or maybe they build the deck and stringer as one piece upside down, glassed and then glue it to the hull and only after glassed the outer side of the stringer to the hull?

anyway, our plan is to do a quick fix for the end of the boating season and be able to install the engine and run the boat this summer. (or what is left of it). Once the season is over, we will remove the engine again and replace the stringer / deck and transom properly.

here is a last view of the partial demolition work after we left: V6 mounts are removed as well as the original L4 mount and the fuel tank bulkhead


Oh did I mention that the wiring is also a mess ?

did someone already performed this kind of quick fix? any advices?

 

[kcassells]

If you take anyone out on the boat make sure you don't like them. Beef up your insurance too. Looks like alot of structural problems that may hurt someone. Other than that Cool project boat.

 

[Broaters]

Hello everyone,

After discovering the rot last summer, we decided to go for a full rebuild rather than a quick fix on this. by lack of time and because we still had to complete the engine rebuild, the hull was leftover for about 3 weeks from now

we finally managed to resume the work on the Searay.
The boat is now located in a friend garage and we are able to work more freely.

So far we have removed the transom which was more than half way rotted:


black and mushy wood all around.

I'll keep posting images later on today.

 

[oldrem]

At least you'll know following the guidance from so many great folks on this site, you should end up with a finished boat much better than factory.

 

[Broaters]

ok we finished opening up the fiber on the transom : the sides are shot too the only good point is that is was quite easy to remove
Sea Ray factory used a lot of steel nails to glue the different plywood sheets together so it makes the removal a bit more time consuming. It also shot my new wood chisel .

here is how it looks with all the transom wood removed:


we also removed the rear part of the deck. plywood was dead but the foam is surpisingly dry.

We did some investigation on the stringers:
the stbd one is ok from a couple of inches ahead of the engine bay


the port one is damaged up to the front of the fuel tank compartment


more to come soon

 

[Broaters]

Question for the experienced rebuilders:

how are the stringers, deck built by the factory??

the following pics are a piece of deck/stringer


one can see that the stringer, cleat and deck are glassed from the inside with a very little to none glass on the bottom part of the stringer.
The stringer was not touching the hull, there was some foam in between them, also the glassing on the outer part of the stringer is very thin and not reaching the top of the wood.

this is what is left of the glass once the plywood and foam are peeled off.

any idea of how they do it?

 

[Broaters]

more curiosities



This is a view of the compartment between the fuel tank and the front cabin with the foam removed.

on the picture you can see that the stringer were not even glassed to the hull in this section. the foam can be seen betwenn the hull and the stringer.

another thing is the drain pipe which is not continuous up to the bulkhead. the foam there was a bit wet and dirty , you can still see the black mark on the hull. besides that the foam was not completely water logged

am I supposed to rebuild it like that? I would guess not.
anyone already seen this?

 

[tpenfield]

Unusual to find that sort of construction, particularly in a Sea Ray. Not sure if they were trying out a new construction method, or if the crew was having a bad day.

It looks like the stringer and decking section were glassed at the cleat/right angle before installing into the hull. Based on the scarcity of tabbing, the foam is holding the structure together.

Now that you have cut into the stringers, what is 'the plan' to repair? Are you going to cut the rest of it out and rebuild, since the construction is suspect?

 

[kcassells]

Unusual to find that sort of construction, particularly in a Sea Ray. Not sure if they were trying out a new construction method, or if the crew was having a bad day.

It looks like the stringer and decking section were glassed at the cleat/right angle before installing into the hull. Based on the scarcity of tabbing, the foam is holding the structure together.

Now that you have cut into the stringers, what is 'the plan' to repair? Are you going to cut the rest of it out and rebuild, since the construction is suspect?

I agree with Ted. My best estimate is to remove everyhting and make the boat safe. It'll be better than factory cause mass production is what killed the best builders. Sales, speed and again sales. No real quality control.Now that you see it as it was made now you can figure out the better ways to make this boat float for a long long time.
KC

 

[Broaters]

Currently my plan is to look for the good plan

about the poor glassing i ran across other sea ray rebuild threads showing same type of pictures. For example kabookey with a 86 sea ray (i borrowed him the pic) strange though that a "high end brand" take these shortcuts. Altough we do not have the full history of the boat i'm pretty convinced this is still the original construction.

for the rebuild my first idea was to make new stringers from the transom up to the existing one where they are in good shape. They would be bedded and glassed as per the techniques widely used here on the forum for example friscoboater or woodonglaas and manymany more (sorry for not naming you all )
​​​​​​​what concerns me a bit is that it would be different length for the port and the starboard one. Not sure how it would behave in use.

 

[chevymaher]

I am new and don't want to tell you what to do but. On mine i had my mind made up. If anything was wrong it was all coming out and getting all new. I wont ever get rid of mine. I just wanted to know it is all in good condition. And will last me as long as I need it to.

You already got the hard part out of the way. There isn't much left.

Just think of it. All new wood and glass. Assembled in a way that is 1000X superior to what the factory did. Then you actually take care of it and keep it dry. Biggest issue you will have is keeping it shiny.

Go out on your new boat knowing it is new. That is piece of mind.

It is a good looking boat I could see keeping it a very long time myself.

 

[Woodonglass]

I agree with the Total Gut and rebuild.The MFG is not always concerned about "Doing Right" but getting it out the door. If you follow the advice from all the Experienced restoration experts here, She'll definetly be better than new. These links might be informative...


WOG Material List.docx

Fabricating Decks, Stringers, and Transoms
Paint Your Boat with Tractor Paint...Say What!!!

 

[Scott Danforth]

strange though that a "high end brand" take these shortcuts. Altough we do not have the full history of the boat i'm pretty convinced this is still the original construction..

The boat was designed for a 15-20 year life. it met its design and build goals.

 

[Broaters]

real quick question about bedding the stringer.

most construction on the forums use PL glue or peannut butter to attach stringer to the hull.
It's also often recommended to use spacer to avoid contact and therefore hard spots between the stringer and the hull.

Once the PL or PB has cured, it also creates a "hard" contact between the hull and the plywood isn't it?
what is the difference then? is it because the "hard" contact is spread along the entire stringer length rather than a small spot?

 

[chevymaher]

PL is actually quite rubbery when hard. Comparatively speaking.

 

[NatedoggAZ]

Broaters - do you have any more pics of the inside of your boat with the decking wood taken out? I have almost the same boat (mine is bow rider) and I'm a little confused on how the seat risers work. I don't plan on taking them out - just need to replace my own decking and I think the decking is cut and just goes around the seat risers?

Thanks!