mushy floor, lag bolt question

[astronutski]

Hi guys, I hope this is the right forum.

My '86 Regal Sebring 195 Openbow which I just recently restored enough to get in the water after 17 years of barn storage has the dreaded mushy floors. I knew this, but I had other pressing issues this spring/summer to get repaired first, ala sterndrive rebuild, sop the floor is going to be repaired this winter (God willing).

But to my question, the stock 3" SS screws that hold the seats in are not grabbing anything firm. I replaced them with 1/4" SS lags 3.5" long but still nothing. I don't want to keep doing this trial and error crap for 8 times until I either punch through the bottom of the boat or finally find some decent wood in there.
Does anyone familiar with this boat know how tall those runners/crossmembers are, and how long of bolts I could get without punching through?

I would also go thicker like 3/8" or more just to get by for another month. Like I said, this winter I plan to re-glass the whole damn floor, so that's going to be super fun (LOL) but I just need a temporary patch until then.

Thanks guys! We had our first outing in her two weekends ago, all of our first time ever and it was a blast. Worth all the time and money I put into her so far. Just need a big ass garage now to rebuild the floor over winter up here in the frozen tundra.

 

[GA_Boater]

You have back-to-back lounge seating. Are all four mounting screws into mush?

 

[astronutski]

You have back-to-back lounge seating. Are all four mounting screws into mush?

Yes and no, not really. Yes, back to back lounge type seats, and the stock setup had 3 screws in each end, for a total of 12 for both pairs of seats.

I'm working blindly (and new to this), and don't really want to start drilling like a madman, although I think that's the only option at this point. It is holding somewhat, but when we went out on maiden voyage it was kinda choppy and the seats were bouncing a lot. The passenger side more than the drivers side, of course I was in the drivers seat so that helped hold that side down. But I wouldn't call either side nice and tight like I want them.

I was hoping to understand how tall those crossbeams are since I haven't torn it apart yet, or if there's any other tricks here, like maybe toggle bolts, I was considering those, which require an insanely huge hole of course. I will be re-using the same seats so I don't really want to swiss cheese the mounting wood that's there on the seat bottoms.

Besides the obvious, do I have any other options for a bandaid fix?

 

[gm280]

Sad that it seems the mushy floor is the real problem here. You could try some butterfly bolts that open up after going through the mushy floor in hope to at least hold the seats in place 'til you refurbish it later on. They are sold in most hardware stores and you drill a hole to allow the butterfly section to fit through. Then as you tighten them up the butterfly portion opens and holds from the back side of the floor.



Or you could even try this type hardware as well.


Understand there are mainly used in very light work situations and are certainly not for any serious repair. But they may hold things together until you can address the situation with better proven materials. JMHO

 

[GA_Boater]

Short of drilling a bunch of holes to find solid wood, not much you can do. The stringers running from front to back are probably the support for the center of the deck and most likely there are no side to side under deck supports.

Live with it for another month, then rip out the deck over the winter.

 

[astronutski]

Short of drilling a bunch of holes to find solid wood, not much you can do. The stringers running from front to back are probably the support for the center of the deck and most likely there are no side to side under deck supports.

Live with it for another month, then rip out the deck over the winter.

OKay, thank you guys, sounds like a plan. Ya, I was thinking about trying the toggle bolts. I'd be pretty uneasy if there were no cross supports and the seats only hold into the plywood! And that doesn't sound right at least logically because they used 3" screws from factory, certainly way more than necessary for 1.5" of plywood, (2) x 3/4", even if allowing for the screw being longer to allow water to drip off into lower area rather than soak into the wood (like shingle nails).

I'll give the toggles a shot, can't hurt, but ya like you said, I'll just deal with it for another month until I can fix everything proper.

Thanks again!

 

[dOb]

Sounds like you have a plan. Here's a couple of things to keep in mind for future. Like GA_Boater said, the stringers are there mainly for deck support and hull strength. They won't necessarily line up with the seat mounts. On my last boat the back to back seats were just screwed to the deck. 3" screws does seem excessive, maybe not the original? Also, you wouldn't want water to drip below deck. I won't go into it all here, but hen you get to the rebuild this forum will be your best source of info. And since no one else mentioned it, I'll go ahead and throw it out there, If your deck is mushy there's a good chance that your stringers aren't in any better shape. Not trying to be Debbie Downer here, but I've yet to see a boat on this forum with a rotten deck sitting on healthy stringers and foam. Just be prepared to get rid of all the bad make it better than new. You'll be glad you did.

In the mean time, be careful with those seats. Not so much with sitting, but if someone stumbles and grabs one for support, you might have an issue.

It sounds like you've caught the bug. Stay safe, and enjoy the hobby that is about to consume every free moment of your life.

 

[astronutski]

Sounds like you have a plan. Here's a couple of things to keep in mind for future. Like GA_Boater said, the stringers are there mainly for deck support and hull strength. They won't necessarily line up with the seat mounts. On my last boat the back to back seats were just screwed to the deck. 3" screws does seem excessive, maybe not the original? Also, you wouldn't want water to drip below deck. I won't go into it all here, but hen you get to the rebuild this forum will be your best source of info. And since no one else mentioned it, I'll go ahead and throw it out there, If your deck is mushy there's a good chance that your stringers aren't in any better shape. Not trying to be Debbie Downer here, but I've yet to see a boat on this forum with a rotten deck sitting on healthy stringers and foam. Just be prepared to get rid of all the bad make it better than new. You'll be glad you did.

In the mean time, be careful with those seats. Not so much with sitting, but if someone stumbles and grabs one for support, you might have an issue.

It sounds like you've caught the bug. Stay safe, and enjoy the hobby that is about to consume every free moment of your life.

You're absolutely right on all accounts ;-)
Ya, I have followed a few guys' rebuilds here and (at this point) am eager and excited to get down to brass tacks! I'm SURE that will fade in short order though LOL. Especially when I need continuous never-ending flow of supplies as I get deeper and deeper.

Ok, I just assumed the area under the seats would drain into the central bilge area that runs the length of the boat. I would be shocked if there were only the stringers! But that's probably what I'll uncover. Ya, I wasn't expecting the stringers to be in any better shape than the decking. Wishful thinking for sure, but my motto is expect, plan on the worst but hope for the best. I made it 50 years with this mantra so far ;-) (although I don't remember much of the first 15 years LOL)

Ya for SURE this will continue to be my best/only source of incredible info. I don't know how many of y'all cross gender (read the other forums here) but I just finished a stern drive rebuild over in the Merc sterndrive subforum. Nice to see new names just as helpful as the good guys over there too ;-)

Thanks guys for all the pointers, time to get myself edumacated in fiberglassing! If it's not a sin I'd like to ask what's the difference (when to use) cloth and mat? I know hte physical difference, but when to use each is what's stumping me here. I know the cloth isn't very flexible to contours, and I do know there's a lot of different weights, but is mat better to use over super lightweight cloth? I imagine we don't really give a crap about visual being this would be stringers and possible cross members, all buried under decking and carpet. If I should start a new thread then that's no problem I'll do that. Whatever works ;-)

 

[jbcurt00]

I suspect you have much more work to do then just replacing a soft deck (floor) if a 3.5" lag couldn't find purchase in the old hole.

Stringers, deck and transom all need lots of attention, and I would probably not use it further until I KNEW what was hidden below deck.

 

[Woodonglass]

The stringers ARE the BackBone of the boat and are VERY important to it's structural integrity. If they are "Mush" the boat is NOT safe to operate. The transom is also an important structural component and it should be checked thoroughly to ensure it is sound. A spongy deck usually indicates that the stringers and transom need attention as well. I wouldn't advise using the boat until you're certain about the condition of these components. Just an Old Dumb Okie's opinion!

 

[Scott Danforth]

the floor is the last thing to rot..... its also the thing people focus on. problem is like Woodonglass indicated, the stingers and transom have long rotted prior.

 

[astronutski]

All of what you guys are saying makes sense, which is very troubling. Thanks for the enlightenment guys, I will definitely be tearing that carpet off this weekend!

Damn, expect the worst, hope for the best (or at least not the worst). One thing I do know is the steering cutout in the transom, I can see the wood up there and that is fine, at least there. I know that's not much consolation, but at least it hasn't gotten that far! Not to say it's structurally sound at this point, just an observation.

Thanks you guys, I'm glad I posted my question thinking I needed only bigger lags or toggles.

How is the carpet held down, just an adhesive spray like that 3M 77 or more like a tube glue construction adhesive?

 

[gm280]

All of what you guys are saying makes sense, which is very troubling. Thanks for the enlightenment guys, I will definitely be tearing that carpet off this weekend!

Damn, expect the worst, hope for the best (or at least not the worst). One thing I do know is the steering cutout in the transom, I can see the wood up there and that is fine, at least there. I know that's not much consolation, but at least it hasn't gotten that far! Not to say it's structurally sound at this point, just an observation.

Thanks you guys, I'm glad I posted my question thinking I needed only bigger lags or toggles.

How is the carpet held down, just an adhesive spray like that 3M 77 or more like a tube glue construction adhesive?

Sorry to enlighten you to such possible things. But we've seen tons of boat with similar situations and we all have experienced that same ourselves. It is all part of the boat industry. More then likely your carpet is glued down and will fight you to let go. But it will come off with persuasion. Even if you do have the "Worst" we are here to help you through your rebuild efforts and most folks' offering that help have done theirs already as well. So the offerings are from personal experiences. Just post what you find so we can see what you are dealing with. :thumb:

 

[JASinIL2006]

How is the carpet held down, just an adhesive spray like that 3M 77 or more like a tube glue construction adhesive?

Weldwood All Weather Outdoor Carpet Adhesive is what many use.

 

[astronutski]

Sorry to enlighten you to such possible things. But we've seen tons of boat with similar situations and we all have experienced that same ourselves. It is all part of the boat industry. More then likely your carpet is glued down and will fight you to let go. But it will come off with persuasion. Even if you do have the "Worst" we are here to help you through your rebuild efforts and most folks' offering that help have done theirs already as well. So the offerings are from personal experiences. Just post what you find so we can see what you are dealing with. :thumb:

Ya, crap happens right? I'm too much invested in her now to unload her or put her back in storage another 17 years. I get 100% of my info here in these forums so thanks for that. I love the instant answers, almost like having a technician on call 24/7. Guess it's time to learn me some fiberglassing techniques!

Weldwood All Weather Outdoor Carpet Adhesive is what many use.

Ok, thanks, I'd like to peel a bit of it back without destroying it. If it's not as bad as I worry it is then I'd like to have to option to re-adhere that section back just to finish out the season. Is it just a heat gun and big scraper kind of job or do I need to "drop the gloves"?

 

[JASinIL2006]

It's hard to say until you start working with it. When I restored my boat, it destroyed the carpet when I pulled it out. The adhesive was old and dry, and it tore up the backing of the carpet. I never found anything that softened up the adhesive. I ended up remove the adhesive with a grinder...