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  1. #1
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    Default Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    I have this beautiful 1983 (year build) Bayliner Capri 1950 (boat length) I bought new with a Volvo AQ225D (short block Chevy 305 V8) and 270 stern drive that I love. It sucked a valve five years ago, and I am just now getting to an engine restoration. I have read the "money hole" posts and nonetheless am going for it desptie the warnings. The drive is probably fine, will have to drain the fuel and clean gunk, replace engine with long block, rebuild carb and do all the hoses. I can live with that and am handy and I think I can do all the work myself and have something to do this winter. But, now as I start to shop around for the engine, too many options, not enough answers. The original engine is Chevy 305 with Holly carb, normal point type ignition.Since I am starting from scratch, why not get a a 350 instead of 305 as the remanufactured price is not much more? A 350 is just a 305 with internal bore/stroke differences that shold not matter to the drive except for excessive horpower overload. Well I need to know if it will just bolt up? So far after many nights searching on the internet I found out the following differences to the chevy short block over the last 20 years.Chevy 305 after 1983 changed the bolt pattern on the valve covers. Okay I can live with that, get Pep Boys valve covers so what if they don't say Volvo on them.Dip stick moves from starboard to port on engines built after 1985. I can't see a big deal I have room on both sides. Am I missing anything here? No big problem right? Rear main seal was two piece and changed to one piece . Uhhhh, the outdrive should not care how the oil is sealed.The flywheel changed from 12.75 inches to I think 14. Now I get worried as I do not know all the problems about hitching engine to drive. My shop manual is not here yet and may not even answer this. I think maybe so what I still have my old flywheel just take off the 14 and put on the 12, is it that easy? Who knows?Also around 1987 intake manifold changed bolt angle. This problem can be solved with new manifold, maybe aluminum high rise or something fancy. Money (a few hundred bucks) will solve this or no?So now, worried I am hunkering down and saying "Just buy the same 1983 replacement block and don't try and take 20 years off your boat". Then another voice in my head (maybe the devil) says hey get the 350, get EFI and don't waste time rebuilding the Holly, go hi-rise manifold and put some better parts (except the one with flame problems like starter alernator).One friend says go to a car dealership and buy a brand new Goodwrench 350 crated engine for about $1200 and don't worry about the marine cam just live with the cam, bolt up the new engine and go. I do not see any information on the intenet of anyone who ever did this. I have read all the posts here about car engines will work except for cam and parts that make sparks, but did these posters consider these flywheel seal, dipstick, differences?I can go to these guys and get the 1983 Volvo Marine remanufactured long block for about the same $1200 and have no problems of any kind. They guarantee all original parts will fit and bolt up and guarantee one year for defects. http://www.rebuilt-auto-engines.com/ They have best price/spin on a reman at about $1,200 and I want to add titanium valves and a few extras.(If anyone has bad news, good news about this source I would appreciate it, and if anyone has a better source also I would appreciate the advice)But my big question for those of you who have much experience, is...What can I bolt up to my Volvo 270 without a big headache? Any Chevy small block? or do I have to get an old one with identical dip stick, flywheel, and oil seal. Is there any chart or matrix on what will and will not just bolt up? Should I just play it safe and buy just the identical year for year 305 and just forget about upgrading to something more current.It just seems anti-climactic to buy a 20 year old reman long block when there is no core charge and the remanufacturer will just give me my pick of anything off the list. I just don't know what to pick.Also if I pick this old block, and then find my drive is in need of repair, then I have to stay with an old drive to match the old engine. Catch 22.So before I chicken out and just get the 1983 long block, or take a stab in the dark and pick a newer 350 I thought it would be wise to hear from this group. What engine should I pick off their list? Looking forward to what anyone knows.Thanks.

  2. #2
    Honorary Moderator Emeritus Don S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    A 350 will replace a 305 with no problem, but changing to a newer style block with the larger flywheel will be a problem.When using the newer style engine, you would need to replace the bellhousing assembly to the newer style (and size).The easiest and least expensive way to go is to use the old style block like you have.If you start shopping for engine blocks by price only you are going to end up with junk. Many of the remanned engines are bored to .060 and about 2/3's of the ones that people have bought them like that don't get 10 hours on the engine, and the warranty is a joke. Do some research, and find a good MARINE long block to directly replace what you have, and you will have a dependable boat you can enjoy.Remember, you can't just walk home when your boat engine blows up.
    Don S.


    Please, no PM's (Private Messages) regarding boat/engine problems.
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    Only forum/moderator issues will be answered in PM's.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    no message

  4. #4
    Admiral KaGee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    Okay I can live with that, get Pep Boys valve covers so what if they don't say Volvo on them.
    OMG! The Cardinal Sin! Buying parts from an AUTOSTORE for your BOAT engine! You're going to Hell for sure!.... (snick)
    If it were easy, any Caveman could do it.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    Originally posted by MURX: Forget the rebuit @$1200.00Go to a large Volume GM crate Engine DealerI buy them From Connell Chevrolet in Costa mesaLast one I bought 4 bolt main 350 7/04 1170.00 in the crateThis engine is new (Not Rebuilt) and it's the Early style 1972 thru 1986 perimiter style rockercover bolts the Cam grind is standard Chevy Truckheadgaskets are stainless and they have brass freeze plugs 249 HP pushes a skipjack 24 flyFine, in Fact top speed went up 6mph over the worn out 305

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    Great, this is very good advice. I called Connell today and they quoted $1440 including a $100 core. My local dealer here in Thousand Oaks, CA quoted $1399 no core, and both have huge quantities on hand. This is a no brainer, I am going with this new engine. There are many posts here that say there are little differences between the light truck cam and a "marine" cam and I will not let this cam difference change my mind.Did you put it in yourself? It does not seem like a big deal to me.Also when I asked the dealer if this engine had brass freeze plugs and stainless head gaskets he did not know. How did you know that. Both dealers knew about the pre 1985 dip stick, bolt pattern and oil seal differences. I am amazed they still sell huge quantities of this "older" but new engine and both dealers said they sell them all the time. There is no warranty from GM if this is put in a boat, but who cares. The guy from Connell said he sells them for boats all the time with no problems. The GM part number for this engine is 10067353 and I wonder if this is the same one you got if you still have the number around.I have always been nervous with remanufactured anything, you never know what they put in. So I am going for this new one based upon your and my friends advice.I assume no problem pulling and replacing if one has done this before with a car. I have done cars since I was 16 years old (42 years ago) and if this is no more complicated than a car I am on my way. There is far more room to work on my Bayliner than on the Camaro I worked on once.Thanks for the advice.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    MURX, was that for a short block or did it have the intake, oil pan, carb, etc?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice


  9. #9
    Admiral KaGee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    Where was this post a month ago! But I needed an '82 V-6. Doubt they would have it anyway.
    If it were easy, any Caveman could do it.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    Buy the old style block, it'll be fine. If it's FWC, don't worry about SS gaskets or Brass plugs, they're only needed with RWC motors...

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    are they aluminum or cast?

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    No intake Ralph,

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    ok that makes more sense... Marine remanufactured short blocks (not rebuilts) run around $1,100 delivered and with tin and dyno sheets around $1,400

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    Ralph among other things short blocks don't come with heads. A motor w/ intake exhaust etc is considered a complete motor. Correct me if I'm wrong

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    The short blocks I am talking about come with heads. Just no tin and no intake. I purchased 2 Marine Reman 350s for my Formula. They come with Special Torque Cam Shaft, 4 Bolt Mains, Fel-Pro Marine Gasket Sets, Brass Freeze Plugs, Hypereutectic Marine Pistons and Double Roller Cam Drives and a 2 year warranty. Then you have short with tin (timing cover, marine oil pan, valve covers) which run like $300 more and include dyno sheets.then you have marine crate motors which are drop in and go ($4.5K for a Crusader with 4 BBL Holley marine carburetor with electric choke, Bronze-lined intake manifold, mech fuel pump, Mallory marine distributor, flywheel, marine spark plugs, marine plug wires, marine water pump, and harmonic balancer rated at 325hp)

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    I should refrain from getting involved in thesediscussions, Sorry for interfering guys

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    Ok so I bought marine "longblocks" for around $1,100 delivered and had to swap tin, intake, etc.. which is around the same price as the truck engine.

  18. #18
    Admiral tommays's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    GM (Delco remy) Starters bolt to the block not the bellhousing, impossible to install on a boatdam on my gm marine motor those starter bolts go right into the block and there hard as hell to get to i wish they went into the bellhouseingand if i was dum enough an auto starter would bolt right in a few long islanders have managed to blow there boats up with car starterstommays
    If a dirty bottom slows you down what do think it does to your BOAT

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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    edit

  20. #20
    Admiral KaGee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    Originally posted by tylerin: Ralph among other things short blocks don't come with heads. A motor w/ intake exhaust etc is considered a complete motor. Correct me if I'm wrong
    Is always how they do it around here.Shortblock is a complete block, minus tin.Longblock adds heads, rocckers, push rods, lifters and no tin.Either case you still need your old manifolds... exhaust and intake.
    If it were easy, any Caveman could do it.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    Yup I clearly got my terms mixed up. Short block, long block, small block, big block, block head Anyway, I was trying to figure out if these truck engines came with intakes and tin, etc. so that I could compare it to what I paid for Loooong block, small block chevy 350 marine remans from Marine Engines Inc, ... So, what I paid is around the same price which makes me happy

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    [quote]Originally posted by Ralph:[QB] Yup I clearly got my terms mixed up. Short block, long block, small block, big block, block head

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    The Chevy crate motor I am about to buy for $1,399 at my nearby Chevy dealer is a "long block" (heads, timing chain included) plus tin (pan and timing cover and valve cover) all included and painted black. They call this a "long block plus tin" as most remanufactured long blocks do not include tin, you just replace your own.I am still researching, and I can replace the camshaft while the engine is out with the "correct" marine cam from Sierra parts, # 18-1484 camshaft for about $152 is as best I can tell the exact marine camshaft instead of the "truck is almost the same" camshaft and this is according to posts elsewhere here the one described in Dennis Moores small Chevy block for boats book (which I ordered from Amazon but seems to be now out of print). So the new Chevy crate plus this cam, plus a double check on freeze plugs to make sure they are brass will get me almost there with "new" for about $1,550.Now, what to do with distributor and intake manifold? My original manifold seems servicable, a little rust on the bottom, looks like it can be cleaned up if I bring it out and get it tanked. But, that will be say $50 bucks or so, so now I just swept the catalogues and an hunting up a manifold with many choices for about $150. Only problem seems to be one that will fit the pre 1986 bolt pattern. Seems complex because many of these have to match a camshaft configuration and so on, so I am probably just going to tank and then re-use my old manifold just for simplicity.My Rochester carb, found a volv-penta rebuild kit for about $27 from Boatfix.com. Old carb looks pretty clean to me, but will rebuild anyway. I do not want to buy a rebuild because I want all the exact little parts to fit all the exact little hoses and linkages that are in my boat. I feel more comfortable with just the same exact Rochester on the same exact manifold.Getting the distributor? Many choices for about $150. No decision yet but will probably go for an HSI electronic and see what happens, and keep my old one around just in case. All the hoses and gaskets seem to be at boatfix.com under Volvo-Penta. Also found a kit of all stainless steel bolts for the 350 engine for about $77. This is made by ARP and is kit 534-9601 and is described at www.arp-bolts.com and sold at boatfix.com. So probably not every single bolt, but probably 80 or 90% of them, and I will clean up the old ones for the few that are not in this kit.Bolt my old starter, alternator, fuel pump back up and if any of them have problems buy marine replacements from boatfix.com. So far $0 estimate they worked fine when the valve blew.Ahh, the raw water pump is actually the Chevy equivalent, and don't read any posts on this. Hard to tell what condition it is in because water pumps wear out bearings. So, I plan to replace the pump with a reman auto pump, and the other pump is marine and all I need to do with this is the new impeller that just slides in. None of the boat part sites list the raw pump just the second pump parts so I guess the auto equivalent will do the trick. Anyone have any worries about what raw water pump to get?So now this plan is up to about $1900 in parts. I am waiting to get my Seloc repair manual from Amazon and am praying they can find a copy of Moores Small Block Chevy Marine book before I actually buy all this just to make sure, but the above combination seems to do the trick. I want to read what Moore says I can get away with for marine use in terms of performance, but if I cannot get his book, replacing the cam with the exact marine cam for $150 seems to put me 99% of the way back to Volvo for half the price of a new Volvo.Distributor is only remaining real question, and suggestions would be helpful.My son owns an automobile cherry picker (Harbor Freight) and I went out to measure the geometry yesterday, and I will just make it or miss getting the engine over the transom by a hair. If I miss by a hair I plan to video tape the experience and will sell the DVD rights for a reality TV show that focuses on comedy, tragedy, with swear words and danger thrown in. The money I get from this DVD will be used to buy a brand new boat, and I will at that point just drop the engine through the bottom of the boat for a finale and have the whole mess hauled off to the dump.All the feedback on this site helps alot with all these decisions and this winter rebuild will be quite fun.

  24. #24
    Admiral KaGee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    I paid $1150 for my reman v-6 3.8 "longblock" w/brass plugs and supposedly a "marine" cam from RAPIDO MARINE in Miami. Everyone around here wanted twice that. Never heard anyone say anything about "crate" motors. Doubt mine would be available anyway.PS... IN OVER HEAD...I built an A frame out of 4x4s and 2x8s... cost around $70 in lumber and hardware. Bought a chain pull from Harbour Freight for $50.
    If it were easy, any Caveman could do it.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

    From Dennis Moore's book.GM has only made 2 marine cams for the stock performance small block chev. One is for where regular lifters are used(chev part # 340284, Mercrusier part# 431-5943), the other is for the roller lifters(GM# N/A, Mercrusier#431-811658)

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