1961 Johnson 3 hp will not fire

Bill kubiak · Feb 1, 2004

I have completly torn down and just about rebuilt or changed everything on this engine. It will not start, not even try to start new rings, rebuilt carb, new points and condensers new water pump, compression is 60 when spinning with a drill, 100 if I add oil to cylinder. read manual several times and still it will not fire even with starting fluid it will not fire. Had coils checked at a mower repair shop and told they were OK Help

rickdb1boat · Feb 1, 2004

Re: 1961 Johnson 3 hp will not fire

Do you have spark at the plugs??

rolmops · Feb 1, 2004

Re: 1961 Johnson 3 hp will not fire

Hello. You say even with starting fluid it won't start.Do not try that one again because if it does start,chances are you ruin the engine. Do you have any spark at all? I am not quite sure how they checked the coils,but I presume they checked for spark. Make sure everything is hooked on the right coil and to the right cylinder.Check the plug wires and check if the points are set right at 0.020".Did you replace the plugs with champion J4C at 0.030"? It may sound like this is shoooting from the hip,but you will have to go by trial and deduction to find the source of your problem.To make sure whether ignition related or whether your carburator or reeds are the culprit.Go by trial and error and write us about the results.Maybe we can take it from there.

JB · Feb 1, 2004

Re: 1961 Johnson 3 hp will not fire

Hi, Bill. Go to FAQ and follow the troubleshooting steps outlined in "Outboard Wont Start". When you know which system your trouble is in, let us know what you have found and we can guide you to a running engine from there. Good luck.

Bill kubiak · Feb 1, 2004

Re: 1961 Johnson 3 hp will not fire

I have spark at the plugs and the spark will jump a 1/2 gap from the wire to the plug hole. I am wondering if the wires or coils can be so bad that there is no spark when the plugs are screwed in the head. The only parts I have not changed is the plug wires or the coils There is compression and the reeds look perfect

rickdb1boat · Feb 1, 2004

Re: 1961 Johnson 3 hp will not fire

Remove the plugs and spray or pour a little PRE-MIX, NOT starting fluid, in the spark plug holes. Put the plugs back in and try it again. On a side note, What did the plugs look like after you spun it before?(Wet or Dry?) Is the carb throttle flap opening? Is the choke working? 50:1 Mix, by the way. 2.5 ounces of TCW-3 oil to 1 Gallon of gas.

Paul Moir · Feb 1, 2004

Re: 1961 Johnson 3 hp will not fire

RB - Don't you mean 24:1 for that engine? Sparkplug leads backwards?

rickdb1boat · Feb 1, 2004

Re: 1961 Johnson 3 hp will not fire

1961 was close on the mix. Maybe 32:1 would be closer. Depends on the bearings they used in it. Close enough to get running...

Paul Moir · Feb 1, 2004

Re: 1961 Johnson 3 hp will not fire

Gotcha. By the way, they used babitt bearings in the 3/4hp engine until it got replaced by the new 4hp in the early 80's. A couple (advanced) members here recommend running all them with 24:1, reporting those run at 50:1 sometimes let go. I've got to say, there seems to be a lot of the pre-'63 3hp engines still around. If my memory serves me, there's no real crankcase seals in it either. I'll see if I can find that post. EDIT: Here it is. I guess my memory isn't great - the recommendation is 32 or 40:1.

JB · Feb 1, 2004

Re: 1961 Johnson 3 hp will not fire

The mix should be 24:1. Sleeves are not close to needles.

rickdb1boat · Feb 1, 2004

Re: 1961 Johnson 3 hp will not fire

OK. When he gets it running, he can use 24:1. There have been many experienced members who have run these engines a long time on 32:1 and even 50:1 with no problems. I'm just going by their experiences. Bill, my mistake, use the 24:1 mixture. 1 quart of TCW-3 oil to 6 Gallons of gas. 50:1 is too lean on oil on these motors...

Bill kubiak · Feb 2, 2004

Re: 1961 Johnson 3 hp will not fire

I set the oil mix at 40-1 from a prior recommendation. Last night in the pitch dark at halftime I spun it to see if there was any errent spark flying around. (Nothing).. Is there a visable spark at the points when they open and close. I am asking because there are two openings in the flywheeel and I could not see any spark at the points in the dark. Removed one plug and spun it and the spark was pretty bright in the dark. I also have an old one cylinder 2hp Johnson that runs great and I was wondering if both of these engines use the identical coils. Thinking about switching coils around to see if I can run the 2hp with the 3 hp coil.

rickdb1boat · Feb 2, 2004

Re: 1961 Johnson 3 hp will not fire

Yes, you should see a small sparking at the point contacts when you spin it over.I assume you only have one set of points on that motor?? If it's got spark and fuel, it should at least attempt to start. Do you have spark at both spark plug wire leads? Did you try the fuel in the spark plug holes and see what happens? Make REAL sure the points are set at .020, as this controls your timing and could be the problem.

Bill kubiak · Feb 2, 2004

Re: 1961 Johnson 3 hp will not fire

The points are set at .020 I put some gas in the spark plug holes, the spark plugs spark when out of the cylinder. I saw no spark at the points when I spun it in the dark last night, Still will not fire

alcan · Feb 2, 2004

Re: 1961 Johnson 3 hp will not fire

Hi Bill If your see arcing (sparks) at the points,this maens your condencers are not working properly. If you say you have had the coils tested and they passed and you have spark to the plugs then that is good enough. Your compression readings seem to be a little off to me. Since you just installed new rings things may not be seated just yet. Any way I think you should still get the motor to pop, especialy when hand primed through the spark holes. My guess is that you have the spark wires crossed. You may have the wire labled #1 in the top hole, but maybe you put that coil in the #2 place on the stator plate. Try just switching wires. Does this motor seem to have good vaccume? If you cover the carb with your hand will it suck? Just some ideas. Any new motor, any overhauled motor should use 24:1 mix on initial fire-up and break-in period. This extra oil will help seal things up a bit. This you have already proven with your compression tests.

Bill kubiak · Feb 2, 2004

Re: 1961 Johnson 3 hp will not fire

yes I have switched the plug wires and it did not work. It seems to have very little suction at the carb throat though. I will add a little more oil to the gas. This engine has bronze bushings and no needle bearings at all

Chinewalker · Feb 2, 2004

Re: 1961 Johnson 3 hp will not fire

Hi Bill, A couple of things... First, front coil fires the top cylinder - good rule of thumb for all old OMC 2-cylinders with magneto ignitions. Second, did you re-install the carb airhorn AND the screen intake that goes over the carb opening? Those motors actually need that screen in place - someone once expalined the theory to me, but I can't recall the details. Anyway, my experience has shown it to be true. How were the bushings in the crankcase when you had it apart? What did you use for sealant on the crankcase faces? What was the condition of the reeds? Sounds as if you've got a crankcase compression issue. Did that motor ever have a fuel pump? If so, is the bleeder hole plugged? What are your needle valve settings? Top should be about 1.5 turns from closed, bottom about 1-full turn from closed. Float should be dead-on level with the carb body when the carb is inverted. Did you re-use the old cylinder head gasket or replace with a new one? Are the head bolts properly torqued as per the manual? - Scott

Xcusme · Feb 2, 2004

Re: 1961 Johnson 3 hp will not fire

Bill, Could you have the pistons rotated 180 degrees (backwards)?? The ramped side of the piston crown should be closest to the intake side of the powerhead....just a thought...

Bill kubiak · Feb 2, 2004

Re: 1961 Johnson 3 hp will not fire

All new gaskets, float adjusted properly, carb adjusted just about as you said, bought the red case sealer from my johnson dealer in alittle tube, everything torqued down to specs, front coil wire to top cylinder, I do not have that screen you are talking about. I am suspicious about the coils, one is red and the other is green, I rememeber when the shop tested them they said they are not shorted and should be ok because coils do not fail unless they are cracked.

Bill kubiak · Feb 2, 2004

Re: 1961 Johnson 3 hp will not fire

The pistons were the first thing I thought about and I pulled the head to check they are in correctly

1961 Johnson 3 hp will not fire

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