79 johnson 140 hp problem

bree

Cadet
Joined
Apr 10, 2002
Messages
8
Hi, I have a 77 140hp johnson which was just rebuilt and all electricals replaced. When it starts it - hard to start - I have to choke it to get to run in gear. Sometimes it would shut off anyway. When it gets going, no problem. Notice gas always overflowing from carbs. Carbs were rebuilt also. Is there any mixture adjustment on this, or is something else causing the problem.<br />Thanks in advance for any assistance.<br />Bree.
 

Cricket Too

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
May 14, 2003
Messages
1,732
Re: 79 johnson 140 hp problem

bree....Are all the carbs overflowing or just one? I don't really think a mixture adjustment beig off would cause this. Sounds to me like a needle stuck open or a float not adjusted properly. Try lightly tapping on the carb or carbs that are overflowing with something and see if it stops if so you know a needle was stuck open. I'm assuming when you say overflowing you mean you can see it coming out of the front of the carb, when you choke it the choke butterflies close off the carb throat and create a higher vaccume and therefore the overflowing fuel is being sucked in, I'm actually suprised this doesn't cause it to stall, maybe other carbs are running a little lean. Good Luck.
 

DHPMARINE

Captain
Joined
Dec 16, 2003
Messages
3,688
Re: 79 johnson 140 hp problem

Bree,I agree with the stuck needle,but if both carbs are leaking....cheap parts or improper rebuild.Are the carbs spraying gas out when running or cranking?If so I'd suspect a reed plate problem.<br />Just my 2 cents worth.<br />DHP
 

walleyehed

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Jun 29, 2003
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6,767
Re: 79 johnson 140 hp problem

I would suggest looking into a linkage sync. sounds to me like the throttle is advancing (Or not closing)and the timing is not advancing quick enough.<br />There is a roller made of nylon that rides on the throttle cam....advance the throttle, and then pull it back into neutral-check to see if nylon roller is contacting the cam....It SHOULD NOT. also, with the throttle linkage unhooked, the butterflys should be fully closed...If not, a "SYNC-N-LINK" needs to be done. A manual is a must for this. Although it may be simple to do, you must have the manual to perform the task in the order stated to work properly.
 

bree

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Joined
Apr 10, 2002
Messages
8
Re: 79 johnson 140 hp problem

Thanks everyone for your invaluable feedback. I believe Kennyb may have something with the link-sync. I just bought 2 new cables and will install them this weekend and let you know what (if any) progress was made. Also will try to get more specific info on the problem.<br />Thanks,<br />Bree.
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
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Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: 79 johnson 140 hp problem

There may be 2, possibly more, issues here. Obviously the overflowing carb has to be addressed first. Once done --as suggested -- the sync & link needs to be done. Keep in mind that its not unusual to have to rejet the idle circuit on those type motors for todays fuel. <br /><br />You mentioned that it was just rebuilt. Find out the specs. What was it bored to (a specific size, not just ".020 over")? Find out what pistons were used (again specific part numbers).<br /><br />Good luck!
 

bree

Cadet
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Apr 10, 2002
Messages
8
Re: 79 johnson 140 hp problem

I installed the new cables this weekend and it seems to be working better, except for the gas leaking out of the carbs. Should there be springs anywhere on the choke or anywhere else? The manual mentions springs but does not show any in the picture or diagram. Thanks.
 

jim dozier

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Jan 8, 2003
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Re: 79 johnson 140 hp problem

I think the guys above are right on about the carbs. I would have another look at the float valves and float settings. Something there isn't working right. You or whoever did the carbs wouldn't be the first to have to go back in and do them again. Use new float valves if you didn't before and set the float height by the book. Then take a look at the idle quality and go from there. Carbs are supposed to carefully meter fuel into the air not just dump it in there.
 

Hooty

Rear Admiral
Joined
Oct 2, 2001
Messages
4,496
Re: 79 johnson 140 hp problem

I don't think there's a return spring on the choke linkage. It relies on the weight of the linkage and choke solenoid plunger to open the butterflies. Are they coming full open after choking?<br /><br />c/6<br />Hooty
 

walleyehed

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Jun 29, 2003
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Re: 79 johnson 140 hp problem

There is a spring on the choke solenoid that is between plunger and linkage....<br />and, I'd still like to hear some answers to Dhadley's questions....It just dawned on me what he's looking for..<br />Info on rebuild..do you have some specifics????
 

Hooty

Rear Admiral
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Re: 79 johnson 140 hp problem

site1090.jpg
<br /><br />c/6<br />Hooty
 

walleyehed

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Jun 29, 2003
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6,767
Re: 79 johnson 140 hp problem

#42, Hooty.....thats the spring that opens the chokeplates when the key is released, via the linkage.
 

steviecops

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Messages
585
Re: 79 johnson 140 hp problem

Well that's very interesting.<br /><br />I recently took off my choke solenoid to clean it up because the chokes were not opening when the key was released. (1980 Johnson 55)<br /><br />There wasn't any spring,(42 in schematic), under the solenoid plunger, but after cleaning the plunger up, the chokes now open when key is released.<br /><br />Is the missing spring a special part, or would any suitable spring be alright to use? Or should I continue to go without the spring?<br /><br />Thanks<br />Steve
 

Joe Reeves

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Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Re: 79 johnson 140 hp problem

Bree... Powerheads do not fail by themselves, something caused the failure. It sounds like whatever caused the failure has not been corrected. As Dhadley has requested, tell us about the rebuilding... who did it, what size was what numbered cylinder(s) rebored, etc.<br /><br />What is the present compression (actual psi numbers) on each numbered cylinder? The spark, with the s/plugs removed, should jump a 7/16" gap on all cylinders with a strong blue lightning like flame (a wide sharp strong snap!).... Does it?<br /><br />The carburetors have not been rebuilt properly. There are no adjustments available to the fuel/air mixture other than changing or drilling out the fixed jets.<br /><br />The proper jets should be: High Speed = .065 - numbers imprinted on H/S jet would be 65C. Slow Speed = .030 - number imprinted on jet would simply be 30. Note that many of these engines run and start better if the slow speed jets are drilled out to .031.<br /><br />Hopefully complete carburetor kits were used in rebuilding the carburetors. The last superceeded number that I have on the carburetor kit is #439076 which would still be available at any Evinrude/Johnson dealership, NAPA, and no doubt other sources. The float should be set as follows.<br /><br />(Carburetor Float Setting)<br />With the carburetor body held upside down, the float being viewed from the side, adjust the float so that the free end of the float (the end opposite the hinge pin) is ever so slightly higher (off level) than the other end. And when viewed from the end, make sure it is not cocked.<br /><br />(Synchronization) - Loosen the set screw on the throttle cam roller and back it away from the scribed cam that operates it. Adjust the throttle linkage between the carburetors so that the throttles open and close at the same time. You want both throttle butterflies closed at idle. Now, set the carburetor throttle cam roller so that the it just starts to open the throttle butterflies when the center of the roller aligns with the scribe mark on the cam.<br /><br />The timer base under the flywheel should move smoothly through it's entire range from idle to the full spark advance position (up against the rubber stop of the spark advance stop screw). <br /><br />To check the timer base for sticking (Engine Not Running), spin the prop to align the shifter dog with forward gear and while doing so, put the engine into forward gear. The reason for spinning the prop follows.<br /><br />(Shifting When Out Of Gear)<br />Pertaining to the manual shift models, when shifting into gear with the engine NOT RUNNING, the prop must be spun so as not to possibly have the dog and gear lobes run directly into each other.<br /><br />To grasp this scenario, with your left hand form a "C" with your thumb and forefinger. Now, with your right hand, form a backwards "C" with your thumb and forefinger. Your fingers will represent the dog and gear lobes.<br /><br />Slide the finger and thumb of your right hand alongside the thumb and finger of your left hand so that they overlap. This is the position of the dog and gear lobes when properly in gear.<br /><br />Seperate that position, then butt the tips of the finger and thumb of your right hand up against the finger and thumb tips of your left hand. This represents having the gear and dog lobes directly facing each other. Should you atempt to force the engine into gear with this condition existing, damage to the shift mechanism will surely ocurr.<br /><br />Now, while watching the timer base, slowly apply throttle clear up to full throttle. The timer base should move smoothly all the way up against the black rubber cap that is atached to the end of the full advance spark setting screw. If the timer base sticks, find out why and correct that problem.<br /><br />Keep us informed.
 

Knightgang

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Oct 6, 2003
Messages
1,428
Re: 79 johnson 140 hp problem

Looking at the part schematic above, that choke silinoid looks like it is electrically activated. I have a Suzuki with the same type of choke. The way the choke works is that the siliniod is an electromagnet and the plunger is sucked into the silinoid by a magnetic force when the electric current is put to the sileniod. The spring that would be sure the choke is open when not engaged will be on the carb linkages. If the inside of the silinoid and the plunger are dirty (from fuel or oil) they could become sticky and that could be why it does not open all the way when not engaged. Try cheaning the choke plunger and inside the silinoid and see if it works better, it did not mine. Also check the linkage on the choke plunger. If it is not set right, it may not close the butterflies all the way.<br /><br />knightgang
 

walleyehed

Admiral
Joined
Jun 29, 2003
Messages
6,767
Re: 79 johnson 140 hp problem

The choke plunger has nothing holding it in other than the length of the linkage. If it's ever been out, I can tell you first-hand, it's easy to loose the spring.......<br />The choke adjustment is made by moving the solenoid fore and aft in the clamp-style bracket.<br />It's not rocket science, but it must be correct.
 
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