Johnson Seahorse 35HP '78 - timing probs??

Sarah Hampshire

Recruit
Joined
Jul 15, 2003
Messages
4
Hi All<br /><br />I'm very new to all this boating lark, so I hope you can understand my terminology!<br /><br />I've got a Johnson Seahorse 35hp 1978 e/start which when pootling, runs splendidly. When I start to speed up, I get a "kick" on the engine which gets louder and harder as I increase the revs. Also, should it be using nearly 20 litres of fuel on an hours slow cruising?<br /><br />Many thanks to anyone that can help!<br /><br />Sarah ***
 

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Re: Johnson Seahorse 35HP '78 - timing probs??

Sarah.... Unless the flywheel key is sheared, the engine is in time. If that "kicking" gives the sensation of hitting something, the engine is jumping out of and back into gear. If, on the other hand, it is more of a spitting sound at the carburetor area (sounds like a mild backfire), the carburetor is either fouled or is set lean, or both. Information on both scenarios follows.<br /><br />I'm not too keen on conversions, but I think 20 litres is roughly 5 US gallons?, (somebody clue me in on that). That's quite a bit to use in an hour.<br /><br />------<br /><br />(Jumping Out Of Gear - Manual Type)<br /> <br />This pertains to lower units on all OMC manual shift outboard engines, or any OMC engine with lower units defined as a Shift Assist or a Hydro Electric Shift unit which incorporates a "Shifter Clutch Dog".<br /> <br />Within the lower unit, splined to the prop shaft is what is most often referred to as a clutch dog, hereafter simply called dog. The dog has at least two lobes protruding from it on both ends, facing both forward and reverse gear. The forward and reverse gears also have lobes built into them near their center area. When the engine is running, in neutral, the gears are spinning constantly via the driveshaft being connected directly to the powerhead crankshaft, but the propeller does not turn due to the fact that the dog is centered between the two gears, and the dog lobes are not touching either of the gear lobes.<br /> <br />When the unit is put into either gear, shift linkages force the dog (and its lobes of course) to engage the lobes of the the gear. The lobes of the spinning gear grab the lobes of the dog, and since the dog is splined to the prop shaft, the propeller turns.<br /><br />The lobes of the dog and gears are percisely machined, most with right angled edges that could be installed in either direction, and some with angles slightly varied that must be installed in one direction only (one end only must face the propeller). Dogs that can be installed in one direction only, if reversed, even if the dog and both gears were new.... would jump out of gear almost immediately. Keep in mind that the lobes are percisely machined with sharp angles!<br /> <br />Due to improper adjustment or worn shift linkages, but usually due to improper slow shifting, those percisely machined sharp edges of the lobes become slightly rounded. Now, with those lobes rounded, as the rpms increase, the pressure of the gear lobes upon the dog lobes increases to a point whereas they are forced apart (jumping out of gear), and due (usually) to the shift cable keeping tension on the engines shift linkages..... the unit is forced back into gear giving one the sensation that the engine has hit something, and the cycle continues.<br /> <br />Some boaters have the mistaken belief that shifting slowly is taking it easy on all of the shifting components..... Wrong! Shifting slowly allows those percisely machined sharp edges of the dog and gears to click, clank, bang, slam against each other many times before they are finally forced into alignment with each other..... and this is what rounds those edges off! The proper way to shift is to snap the unit into gear as quickly as possible.<br /><br />------<br /><br />(Carburetor Adjustments - Two Adjustable N/Vs) <br /><br />Initial settings are: Bottom high speed = seat gently, then open 1 turn out. Top slow speed = seat gently, then open 1-1/2 turns. <br /><br />Setting the high and low needle valves properly: <br /><br />NOTE: For engines that DO NOT have a shift selection, obviously there is no NEUTRAL position. Simply lower the rpms to the lowest setting to obtain the low speed needle valve adjustment.<br /><br />(High Speed) Start engine (it will run pretty rough), shift into forward gear, take up to full throttle. In segments of 1/8 turn, waiting for the engine to respond between turns, start turning in the bottom high speed needle valve. You'll reach a point whereas the engine will either start to die out or spit back (sounds like a mild backfire). At that point, back out the needle valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4 turn, you'll find the smoothest setting. <br /><br />(Low Speed) Slow the engine down to where it just stays running. Shift into neutral. Again in segments of 1/8 turns, start to turn the top needle valve in. Wait a few seconds for the engine to respond. As you turn the valve in, the rpms will increase. Lower the rpms again to where the engine will just stay running. Eventually you'll hit the point where the engine wants to die out or it will spit back. Again, at that point, back out the valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4 turn, you'll find the smoothest slow speed setting. <br /><br />When you have finished the above adjustments, you will have no reason to move them again unless the carburetor fouls/gums up from sitting, in which case you would be required to remove, clean, and rebuild the carburetor anyway.
 

Sarah Hampshire

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Joined
Jul 15, 2003
Messages
4
Re: Johnson Seahorse 35HP '78 - timing probs??

Thanks very much for that, Joe. From your description it sounds more like the gear-jumping problem. This is beyond my meagre talents as a mechanic - is it the sort of job that is easy/cheap to do, or is it a "dump the outboard and get one that works" scenario? Perhaps you could recommend which size hammer I need to hit it with!!!!<br />Sarah ***
 

Hooty

Rear Admiral
Joined
Oct 2, 2001
Messages
4,496
Re: Johnson Seahorse 35HP '78 - timing probs??

..."pootling"?<br /><br />c/6<br /><br />Hooty
 

Xcusme

Commander
Joined
Apr 21, 2003
Messages
2,888
Re: Johnson Seahorse 35HP '78 - timing probs??

Ya gotta love the Brits.....<br /><br />Words like 'bonnet' as in automobile hoods or 'boots' for the trunks. (I think!)<br />'Dual carriage way' for 2 lane highways etc.<br /><br /> Pootling
 

Sarah Hampshire

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Joined
Jul 15, 2003
Messages
4
Re: Johnson Seahorse 35HP '78 - timing probs??

Well, Pardon my Englishness!!!!<br />"pootling" means bumbling along slowly, without a care in the world.
 

songdog

Seaman
Joined
Aug 8, 2002
Messages
50
Re: Johnson Seahorse 35HP '78 - timing probs??

Sarah- your english is just fine, I spent some time in Portsmouth near the Isle of white. I have experienced the carriage way, bangers and mash I even spead through the tubes of london. It took me a while to figure out what a windscreen was. I hope the outboard settles down ounce you work out the bits and pieces.
 

Hooty

Rear Admiral
Joined
Oct 2, 2001
Messages
4,496
Re: Johnson Seahorse 35HP '78 - timing probs??

I got it. Pootling's kinda like moseying.<br /><br />Thx. & c/6<br /><br />Hooty
 

Xcusme

Commander
Joined
Apr 21, 2003
Messages
2,888
Re: Johnson Seahorse 35HP '78 - timing probs??

Sara,<br />I hope you didn't take my last post the wrong way. Please forgive me if you were offended. I ment what I said in only the best possible way. Let us know how things work out with your motor, Good Luck.
 

Sarah Hampshire

Recruit
Joined
Jul 15, 2003
Messages
4
Re: Johnson Seahorse 35HP '78 - timing probs??

Songdog - I'm hope you enjoyed England, I live not 30 miles from there........<br /><br />Hootey - I have no idea what moseying means, but it sounds just right!<br /><br />Xcuseme - I'm not offended at all - one word I've never understood is "faucet" for tap!<br /><br />I'll let you know how the saga turns out!<br /><br />Sarah ***
 
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