It's LEAKING - and I can't find where

USS Neversail

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 8, 2002
Messages
117
I have an older aluminum Tracker (1983) that has a leak somewhere. I am taking on water to the tune of about 3" an hour. <br />Last night, I put a 500 watt light inside the boat, hoping I could see light coming from a leak - No such luck. <br />Any suggestions on how to find it? Bailing water from the boat REALLY interferes with fishing. :eek: ;) <br /><br />Thanks,<br />Jason
 

Quintin66

Cadet
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
23
Re: It's LEAKING - and I can't find where

Put 'er on the trailer and fill her full of water with a hose, then check the bottom to see where she springs a leak.
 

USS Neversail

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 8, 2002
Messages
117
Re: It's LEAKING - and I can't find where

HA! Good idea. I've been so busy thinking of how to get water OUT of the boat, I didn't even think of putting water IN the boat.<br /><br />Thanks!<br /><br />Jason
 

KCLOST

Commander
Joined
Jun 22, 2002
Messages
2,095
Re: It's LEAKING - and I can't find where

USS,<br /><br />Hey, you almost have the exact boat I have (1984 bass tracker 2). Anyway, I had the same problem except it is a much smaller leak. Filled the boat up with water Sunday as a matter of fact and found two small leaks around the weld for the livewell drain tubes that exit the boat on the sides. <br />Make sure you have your boat as level as possible when you add water so you get coverage all across the bottom. With that heavy of a leak you should find it easily. <br />Clean the location well (I used some aluminum hull cleaner (acid like stuff) and sealed the leaks with JB weld. Piece of cake....<br />What model boat and motor do you have?
 

FlyBoyMark

Ensign
Joined
Apr 14, 2002
Messages
934
Re: It's LEAKING - and I can't find where

If it is a split weld...go have it welded with 5356 filler ONLY!.....DO NOT GLUE.....This never last and looks like **** when its done and when you do weld it the weldor will charge you more for cleaning the crud off. From one of my earlier post if its a rivet:<br />DO NOT WELD!(and this is coming from a weldor that fixes alum. boats) Use S.S. TRUSS HEAD phillips screws with flat washer and nylon locking nut on the back side. Drop of 5200 sealant around the screw head before inserting so that it squishes thru jus' a bit when ya push the screw in. Wipe of exterior with lacquer thinner soon as you tighten the screw. Use #10-24 X 1/2" size screw and drill out rivet with 3/16" drill bit. IMPORTANT! Remove all filings, champher all holes with large 3/8" or 1/2" drill bit. USE STAINLESS STEEL TRUSS HEAD PHILLIPS screws. Box of 50 ea. should cost about 4.50, nuts 4.50, washers 2.50. You could literaly dissassemble your whole boat and put it back together this way with different size screw for different size rivets. I do repairs and restorations this way.
 

KCLOST

Commander
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Jun 22, 2002
Messages
2,095
Re: It's LEAKING - and I can't find where

FlyboyMark,<br /><br />Let me tell you that the JB Weld works awesome on aluminum that has been cleaned properly and if the substance is applied properly. Something like 4000psi Tensile to fix a slight split at a minor location... Perfect for filling or repairing a broken weld (and I'm talking about minor stuff here), and the most important thing a **** of a lot cheaper... <br />Now rivets are a different story and I would recommend your method....<br /><br />A little info on JB Weld...<br />a) We call our resin epoxy steel because it contains fine particles of ironand steel. This is one of the reasons for the immense strength of theadhesive and high temperature it can resist. Many other competitive brandscontain putty like fillers such as polyester which cannot be machined etc orprovide permanent repairs. Nor do they withstand long term vibration.<br /><br />b) Adhesiveweld has a tensile strength of 278.4kg/cm2. A strength of over 70kg/cm2 is considered structural by industry. The end-user can therefore use Adhesiveweld instead of using other bonding and repair methods such as soldering, heat welding and mechanical systems. Much expense and time is saved.<br /><br />c) Adhesiveweld resists temperatures of 300oC and often higher. This feature benefits end users who wish to make repairs in and around vehicle engines, for example. But it also gives everyone the confidence to make permanent repairs in and around the home or garden where there are, for example, hot pipes, or if in the garden there are diverse climatic changes.<br /><br />Must commonly available competition products can only resist temperatures lessthan 100oC.<br /><br />d) Adhesiveweld does not shrink while it cures. Shrinkage is common in many other products and is a severe draw back in applications where precision is vital.<br /><br />e) Because the cured Adhesiveweld can be treated like metal and drilled,tapped, machined, polished and painted it can be used for a whole variety of applications.<br /><br />f) When cured Adhesiveweld is completely resistant to water, oil, petrol,diesel and most aggressive chemicals such as battery acid. It is also non corrosive and non conductive. This means you can use it as a circuit-breaker or where corrosive chemicals are present or in a hard climatic environment.
 

USS Neversail

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 8, 2002
Messages
117
Re: It's LEAKING - and I can't find where

OK, I took it out and ran it for a while tonight. Let it get a good amount of water in it, loaded it up, took it home, lowered the front end, and . . . nothing. :mad: <br />Got frustrated :mad: while waiting for the leak to show and raised the front end back up. Took one last look - there it was. :D Someone had tried to fix it with a kind of silver caulking (have no idea what this is :confused: ). Looked a little farther and found 4 rivets leaking (very slowly - about a drip a minute or less, even). Not going to worry about the rivets for now. The primary is toward the stern. Guess I gotta clean the crud off. Looks like it is right near the keel. I'll keep you posted on the progress. Probably won't mess with it till the weekend. <br />Thanks for all the good info. Also, any clues on what the silver calking is? Just curious.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Jason :cool:
 

FlyBoyMark

Ensign
Joined
Apr 14, 2002
Messages
934
Re: It's LEAKING - and I can't find where

KCLOST....Hmmmmmm....I wonder why I have to clean off all that "JB" stuff all the time when people come to me to fix thier boats.....as do all my other associates in the welding business.<br /> Great stuff for patching some fiberglass and TEMPORARY aluminum repairs though....
 

KCLOST

Commander
Joined
Jun 22, 2002
Messages
2,095
Re: It's LEAKING - and I can't find where

Well, I guess the joke is on me....<br /><br />BUT, that may not be JB Weld he's seeing!!!!! <br />Jason, when you say "silver" is it actually silver or a medium to dark grey color. Is it hard to the touch or pliable like a silicone?<br /><br />All I know is, I've had great results with it so far....<br /><br />FlyBoy, when you were talking about welding with 5356 filler, what do you mean by that?<br />I don't know much about actually welding aluminum, is it a material used in actual torch welding or something like a JB Weld material...
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: It's LEAKING - and I can't find where

USS NEversail,<br /><br />If you can access the the areas inside the boat where the leaks are, I would recommend-"Gluv It". It works magic on leaking rivets. It would also work on the keel seam as long as there are no splits or tears in the aluminum.<br /><br />It is available at West Marine. <br /><br />www.westmarine.com
 

USS Neversail

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 8, 2002
Messages
117
Re: It's LEAKING - and I can't find where

It is pretty close to the color of the boat. But a little darker grey. It's not silvery, though. And it is pliable and soft. Don't feel bad if it is JB Weld, because it held for probably 3-5 years. That's not bad for a "temporary" fix. <br /><br />Thanks for the tip, djohns19. I still have to pull the gunk off thats on it to find out what kind of problem it is. I'll check it out anyway, though, as I have a few rivets leaking slowly.<br /><br />Jason
 

KCLOST

Commander
Joined
Jun 22, 2002
Messages
2,095
Re: It's LEAKING - and I can't find where

USS,<br /><br />Well, if it's pliable or soft, it isn't JB Weld!<br />That stuff is as hard as rock if it was mixed right...<br /><br />Take that FlyBoy!!!! just kiddin ya...
 

Quintin66

Cadet
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
23
Re: It's LEAKING - and I can't find where

KCLOST, I have to agree with FLYBOY. I don't mean to be down on your product, but........ I have a hard time beleiving any has enough iron or steel in it to give it strength, yet doesn't conduct electricity. When it's all said and done, it's just glue. It might be strong glue, but still glue. Don't get me wrong, I've used JB WELD on a few things, I'm a maintenance tech for a major casket manufacturer, and they can come up with some pretty resourceful ways of fixin' things around here. Bottom Line....Fix it right the first time, that way, your great grandson will be doin' the next repair.
 

KCLOST

Commander
Joined
Jun 22, 2002
Messages
2,095
Re: It's LEAKING - and I can't find where

Quint,<br /><br />No problem with your point of view... And I furthermore agree with it.. Fixing it right the first time is always the best way to go...<br /><br />I don't want this to turn into an arguement on sealants, and I'm sorry if I took it too far...<br /><br />But, I feel that USS Neversail is probably in the same boat as me... First, he actually has almost the same boat, same year, same hp, and got the boat almost in the same manner. I'm just trying to help him get it in working condition (safely) based on my experience.... I've had success with the JB, if you follow the directions and use it in applications that it was designed for, especially on my boat... Granted, I don't leave my boat in the water all the time so that may make a difference....<br /><br />It's all good...We all differ in opinions. But some of us can't afford to spend mucho bucks on a $2000 or less hand-me-down.... I was just suggesting the cheap route.
 

FlyBoyMark

Ensign
Joined
Apr 14, 2002
Messages
934
Re: It's LEAKING - and I can't find where

Like I said, JB is great on glass or epoxy and very good for temps on any metal......5356 T.I.G. filler is a higher copper filler alloy than 4043 which is almost pure aluminum. 4043 tends to crack VERY easily under any kind of stress. MOST T.I.G. weldors use 4043 because it is a universal filler that works on all aluminum because its PURE aluminum almost and makes very pretty welds that are not structuraly sound. But not neccessarily the best as in boats. MOST reweld jobs I do are from weldors that use 4043 filler. 5356 is a little harder to work on thin aluminum but a GOOD weldor knows how to do it.<br /> For what the tube of goo cost why can't you guys use the truss head stainless screws and do it rite? Glue does not help the integrity of the boat. Thus it will work other rivets loose because the sheet metal is not supported properly and leak again. The proper size screws match the rivet almost exactly except for the phillips slot and NEVER leak.<br />Truss head screws have a large diameter, low profile head like the rivet.
 

USS Neversail

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 8, 2002
Messages
117
Re: It's LEAKING - and I can't find where

One of the reasons I am looking to JB weld is that to replace those rivets, I'll have to remove the decking and I'll have to remove the bouyancy foam inside some spaces on my boat. I'd love to do it right, but I just don't have the time. I'd be working on this boat until Jan. 2010 (winter, of course)! Also, the rivets that I have seen leak VERY little. <br /><br />So maybe another time, or maybe next time I'll do all that work, but for now JB Weld. And you are actually right, FlyboyMark, it should be done right the first time. BUT, no time, no expertise and running low on patience right now. I have spent well over 80 hrs. restoring this boat (probably because I am a rookie - a pro could've done it in a quarter of the time). I am ready to be done with fixing major stuff. I am ready to FISH ! ! ! :D :eek: :D <br /><br />I don't leave my boat in the water, so I don't think that'll be a factor. <br /><br />Just to let everyone know, I will keep you posted on the results. The JB Weld goes on this weekend. As soon as I see the first drop of leakage after that, I'll add it to this post . . . keep an eye out! :eek: <br /><br />Jason
 

KCLOST

Commander
Joined
Jun 22, 2002
Messages
2,095
Re: It's LEAKING - and I can't find where

USS,<br /><br />Prep the repair area well, get it clean by removing all the old gunk, use acid cleaner if you can get some to remove any lime deposits, or use some fine grain sand paper. The sanding will help prep the area for the JB (which is recommended in the instructions). But get it good and clean before application. <br />If you need to work the JB into some very small cracks, splits/spaces, heating up the JB tubes in hot water will thin it down more. But work quickly after mixing because it will harden up a little faster...<br /><br />Good luck...
 

FlyBoyMark

Ensign
Joined
Apr 14, 2002
Messages
934
Re: It's LEAKING - and I can't find where

When you "do" get a chance to open the boat up completely, you will need to remove the foam down to the bare aluminum. You will find that there will be a considerable amount of electrolisis with the foam bonded to the hull if water has been allowed to accumulate there and cleaning, alumiprep, alodine and zinc chromate paint proccess will be needed. Replace with POLYETHELENE foam(the colorful stuff that Walmart sells called water noodles that kids use in the pool) sheets when you do the overhual.
 

USS Neversail

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 8, 2002
Messages
117
Re: It's LEAKING - and I can't find where

Flyboymark, <br /><br />Can I just steal a few of my kids water noodles? She's got a dozen of em. <br />Thanks for the info on cleaning that foam out. I think that will probably be my winter project. <br /><br />KC, thanks for your info as well. I am afraid to thin it out too much, as I will be under it when I apply it. Don't want it dripping in my eye or belly button or anything lower. :eek: LOL!<br /><br />Also, have you guys heard of Alumiweld? Acts like welding, but done with a propane torch. Has a tensile strength of 47,000 lbs/sq. inch?!?!? and withstands heat to 7-800 degrees? <br />Alumiloy is another name I have heard. <br /> :confused: :confused: <br />Please let me know if you have heard of anything like these.<br /><br />Thanks!<br />Jason :cool:
 

KCLOST

Commander
Joined
Jun 22, 2002
Messages
2,095
Re: It's LEAKING - and I can't find where

USS,<br /><br />Can't say I have heard about that Alumiweld, But if you think you can do it I would.... It's got to be better than JB with that kind of tensile ....<br /><br />If you don't have foam or wood around your leak, go for it.. Let me know how it goes...
 
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