Mysterious hoses clamped off 1961 40hp lark III - low fuel in sediment bowl.

I am trying to get my 1961 evinrude 40hp lark III running.
New coils, new condensers, properly gaped points, new fuel lines, rebuilt carb.
I set the top screw in the carb to 1-1/2 out and the bottom to 1 turns out.
It started right away and ran nice for about 1 minute until it sputters and died.
Moneyed up the settings trying to get it going again and will need to start over but in the mean time.

There are 2 rubber lines/hoses that are capped off with bolts inserted in the ends with clamps.
The hoses run to the front of the motor ( carb end ). See the attached photos.
One originates just behind the head and the other is below the crankcase.

Do I need these for anything or can I simply replace them with shorter newer caped off lines?

Thanks

Re: Mysterious hoses clamped off 1961 40hp lark III - low fuel in sediment bowl.

I believe those are water lines for the "infamous" hot water choke on that model motor. The first picture appears to be the "spent water" line that dumps the used water into the exhaust housing. The second picture looks like the hot water "supply" line from the cylinder head. That choke can be operated manually without the hot water activating the choke. You might want to verify what choke you have. If it were my motor, I would be looking for a brass plug to replace the cylinder head fitting to prevent a cooling water leak in the event of a split hose. Good luck with that great old motor!

Re: Mysterious hoses clamped off 1961 40hp lark III - low fuel in sediment bowl.

Ah... I see.

This motor has a working electric choke on the bottom side of the carb. Just a solenoid with a linkage. I will need to add an extra wire to the whip if I want to use it.

The water lines are flimsy and probably 50+ years old so I am going to take your advice to remove them and plug the holes.

Today I put a larger barrel under the back so I can run it in gear in an attempt to get starting settings for the carb before we put it in the water.

This "great old motor" came as part of a package including a 16' 1961 lyman. Both need some attention but I really like to tinker so it's all good.

Re: Mysterious hoses clamped off 1961 40hp lark III - low fuel in sediment bowl.

The electric choke did not come with the motor. Somebody swapped carburetors. That's why they capped the hoses. The hot water choke never did work worth a hoot.

You have your HS needle open too far. 5/8 to 3/4 would be more like it. You CANNOT adjust it in a barrel, so don't even try.

You mentioned the low fuel in the bowl. That's normal. They just plain don't ever run full. Don't try to figure it out.

Re: Mysterious hoses clamped off 1961 40hp lark III - low fuel in sediment bowl.

Thanks for clarifying the question about the fuel level in the bowl.

I am confused about what people call the different settings on the carburetor.
I was using the settings I found on this forum.
*******
(Carburetor Adjustments - Two Adjustable N/Vs)
(J. Reeves)

Initial settings are: Bottom high speed = seat gently, then open 1 turn out. Top slow speed = seat gently, then open 1-1/2 turns.

Setting the high and low needle valves properly:

NOTE: For engines that DO NOT have a shift selection, obviously there is no NEUTRAL position. Simply lower the rpms to the lowest setting to obtain the low speed needle valve adjustment.

(High Speed) Start engine (it will run pretty rough), shift into forward gear, take up to full throttle. In segments of 1/8 turn, waiting for the engine to respond between turns, start turning in the bottom high speed needle valve. You'll reach a point whereas the engine will either start to die out or spit back (sounds like a mild backfire). At that point, back out the needle valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4 turn, you'll find the smoothest setting.

(Low Speed) Slow the engine down to where it just stays running. Shift into neutral. Again in segments of 1/8 turns, start to turn the top needle valve in. Wait a few seconds for the engine to respond. As you turn the valve in, the rpms will increase. Lower the rpms again to where the engine will just stay running. Eventually you'll hit the point where the engine wants to die out or it will spit back. Again, at that point, back out the valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4 turn, you'll find the smoothest slow speed setting.

When you have finished the above adjustments, you will have no reason to move them again unless the carburetor fouls/gums up from sitting, in which case you would be required to remove, clean, and rebuild the carburetor anyway.


*******





The carburetor on my motor has 2 needle valves.
One above the intake and one below.
I assumed that the lower needle was the mixture and the one above was the slow idle.
Is there a definitive answer to which is which and what settings to use as a baseline after a carb overhaul?
Thanks

Re: Mysterious hoses clamped off 1961 40hp lark III - low fuel in sediment bowl.

Joe's instructions are generic, for just about any motor that comes along. My suggested setting is more model-specific. Joe's will get it running, but will be way rich....which is what you are going to remedy when you dial it in on the lake.

Re: Mysterious hoses clamped off 1961 40hp lark III - low fuel in sediment bowl.

Thanks for that clarification.
I went to Lowes and picked up some little 1/8" brass plugs and wound them in with a little pipe dope for good measure.
Anyway I just detected water in the gear case so I probably will be dealing with that first.
I was hoping for at least a few weeks on the water.
Here's hoping.

Re: Mysterious hoses clamped off 1961 40hp lark III - low fuel in sediment bowl.

tommr said:

I was hoping for at least a few weeks on the water.

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Since F_R is posting in your thread, I am hesitant to offer advice but my old geezer brain just cannot help it. If it were me in your location trying to get a few outings in before cold weather begins, I would change the gearcase lube after each outing and tear into the lower unit only when it is too cold to go boating. My two cents. Good luck!

Re: Mysterious hoses clamped off 1961 40hp lark III - low fuel in sediment bowl.

Thanks for the thought Willy but the fact that there was water in the gear housing after just a bit of tinkering where the motor only ran for 30 seconds continuous means to me there is the chance that a lot of water could get in if I ran it for longer, and I would not be able to enjoy my self if I was constantly worrying about it.

I suspect the shift rod O ring since it was really sloppy when I was inspecting the impeller.
Anyway I feel guilty for not changing the impeller and I can get thought this in a few hours and to tell the truth I get as much fun out of breathing new life into old motors as I do running them.
I found a kit right for here for about $20.00 and it looks to contain all the seals, o rings and gaskets.
I have a tool I made from a old screw driver that I bent slightly and ground flat then tempered that I use to drive out the shift rod bushing and other than the drive shaft seals, that is the part that takes me the longest.
Come to think of it I vaguely remember taping the bushing and pulling it out with a bolt running through a block of hard wood.
Anyway I am headed to my OMC guy in a few minutes and if he can't help me out I will be ordering the kit tomorrow.

In reference to the original topic, I eliminated about a mile of useless hose by plugging those two holes.
In the process I found an other hose coming out of the front of the motor beside the carb. Well actually two. One smaller one goes around to some "who knows what" that has some wires attached on the side that is not the fuel pump, and another larger hose that was capped off.
Since it was a barb evidently pressed in I could not take it out so I replaced the older longer hose with 3 inches of heavy duty fuel line, capped the end by screwing a bolt into it and then cinching it off with a stainless steel clamp and tucked it out of the way along side the carb next to the starter where it can cause any trouble.
I left the smaller hose running to the "thing" on the other side of the motor until I learn what it is and why it is there.

Thanks again for the well intentioned suggestions and help.

I might have called my good friend Billy Bond, and I would have if this was Mercury, but you you never know what could happen if you utter the words Evinrude, Johnson or OMC around him.

Re: Mysterious hoses clamped off 1961 40hp lark III - low fuel in sediment bowl.

tommr said:

...and to tell the truth I get as much fun out of breathing new life into old motors as I do running them.

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Totally agree! It sounds like you are on top of the situation. How about posting a picture of the "new hoses" you found so maybe someone can help you figure it out. Do you need a manual?

Re: Mysterious hoses clamped off 1961 40hp lark III - low fuel in sediment bowl.

tommr said:

This "great old motor" came as part of a package including a 16' 1961 lyman.

Click to expand...

Love the old wooden lapstrake boats from that era. Hope you can save it also!

Re: Mysterious hoses clamped off 1961 40hp lark III - low fuel in sediment bowl.

tommr said:

In the process I found an other hose coming out of the front of the motor beside the carb. Well actually two. One smaller one goes around to some "who knows what" that has some wires attached on the side that is not the fuel pump, and another larger hose that was capped off.
Since it was a barb evidently pressed in I could not take it out so I replaced the older longer hose with 3 inches of heavy duty fuel line, capped the end by screwing a bolt into it and then cinching it off with a stainless steel clamp and tucked it out of the way along side the carb next to the starter where it can cause any trouble.
I left the smaller hose running to the "thing" on the other side of the motor until I learn what it is and why it is there.

Click to expand...

Regarding these other two hoses, I want to share some thoughts based on my complete overhaul of a 1959 Johnson RDSL-21 which is 35HP but basically the same motor as yours. The "pressed-in barb" at the front of the motor sounds very much like the early model Big Twin intake manifold that used a nipple in that location for the vacuum/pressure crankcase pulses to the fuel pump. Your 1961 should have the pulse hose to the fuel pump connected to the exhaust bypass cover on the side of the cylinder block. F_R's call about the wrong carb being swapped to your motor is cause to believe some PO swapped an early model intake manifold as well. You plugged the pulse hose and that should be okay. The wrong manifold, carb, reed valves, etc. may cause some performance problems but we will need an expert like F_R to keep both of us straight on that.

I believe the smaller hose may be the oil line that connects the bottom of the crankcase to upper crankshaft bearing. The leaf valve at the bottom of the front crankcase half allows excess oil collecting in that area to be pumped to the upper crankshaft bearing by crankcase pressure pulses and it closes to prevent vacuum pulses from suctioning it out. Make sure the hose is good and clear considering its importance to the life of the engine. You might want to take a look at the leaf valve also since there is no other way to know what else some PO may have done. Once again, I sure hope F_R continues to post in your thread. He is the best!

Re: Mysterious hoses clamped off 1961 40hp lark III - low fuel in sediment bowl.

I just got back from the OMC parts place and it looks like a 100 dollar bill for all gear case bushings and O rings. Since I do not know if this is apples to apples and if the bronze shift rod bearing is included I will need to wait till tomorrow to check and see exactly what the $20.00 kit includes.

As for the swapped out carb... This is beginning to make more sense the further in I go. The barb on the fuel pump is larger than the one on the carb, meaning I have to squish the hose to fit, and for some odd reason that bothers me. The original carb probably had the matching size. I am going to see if I can locate some type of adapter or barbed fitting so I can use proper sizes with out the trouble of squeezing the fuel line with a stainless steel clamp.

I took a photo of the right hand side of the carb showing the embarrassingly squished fuel line. You can also see the electric choke that evidently was never connected. I tested it and it works so I will be hijacking one of the 2 unused wires in the wiring harness to for that.

I could not get a good picture of the left hand side of the engine as the starter and carb block the 2 barbs but the smaller of the 2 goes to the sensor with the wires shown in the photo. The wires go back to the wiring whip and I am wondering if that is not an engine overheat sensor. The vacuum line to the fuel pump is shown below the mystery sensor. I will be replacing that line as well.

Re: Mysterious hoses clamped off 1961 40hp lark III - low fuel in sediment bowl.

tommr said:

I could not get a good picture of the left hand side of the engine as the starter and carb block the 2 barbs but the smaller of the 2 goes to the sensor with the wires shown in the photo. The wires go back to the wiring whip and I am wondering if that is not an engine overheat sensor. The vacuum line to the fuel pump is shown below the mystery sensor. I will be replacing that line as wellView attachment 211077

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The intake manifold may not be from an earlier model as previously suggested because your model should also have a hose nipple to serve as the source of vacuum for the overspeed/cutout sensor, not "overheat sensor". Sorry for any confusion I may have created but it has been many years since I owned a Big Twin. Just trying to help. Still hoping for F_R to jump in here again.

Re: Mysterious hoses clamped off 1961 40hp lark III - low fuel in sediment bowl.

Update on gear case overhaul.
After much cursing and consternation I was able to safely remove the drive shaft oil seal with no damage to the housing.
After working on the shift bushing for about an hour with my "special bent screwdriver" I went in search of a puller I once put together for that purpose.
While looking I found a forgotten box of drill bits and extensions and I vaguely remember reading something somewhere about using a bit extension to drive the bushing out.
I carefully slid it into the shift rod channel and gave it a tap and out it came.
I was flabbergasted to say the least.

Now all I need to do is find a safe way to remove the prop shaft seal.

The races did look a little blue in a spot and there was evidence of some heat but everything seems to mesh well, no slop and the gears were whole.
I have high hopes that fresh oil and no water will be enough.

Re: Mysterious hoses clamped off 1961 40hp lark III - low fuel in sediment bowl.

tommr said:

I vaguely remember reading something somewhere about using a bit extension to drive the bushing out.

Click to expand...

Good info. Glad to hear you are still making progress with that beauty. Good luck!

Re: Mysterious hoses clamped off 1961 40hp lark III - low fuel in sediment bowl.

Well I did it. While trying to remove the rear prop seal and using care clamping it in a work mate I managed to break a small piece off the thin outside of the seal carrier where the O ring goes.
Sad day for sure.

Oh yeah. The good news is I think the 2 funny little holes are there to help in removing the seal.
Maybe a place for a punch to push it out.

Anyway new new 112.00 and used for about 25 bucks.
Of course I will be faced with the same task of removing the propeller shaft seal if I buy one used.

Could be worse.

Re: Mysterious hoses clamped off 1961 40hp lark III - low fuel in sediment bowl.

Some days are diamonds and some days are coal. Hang in there!