Bought boat with title but no bill of sale, what now

templetxboater · Sep 4, 2013

so first off this was my first boat purchase so please dont egg me about such a stupid mistake.I live in texas, i bought a non running boat from a guy on cl a week ago for 500. when we went to look at it he showed me the blue title and its clean. i checked with texas parks and wildlife and its not stolen so i purchased it. he said he needed a day to get the bos together but i could have the title and take the boat with me, so i agreed. next day i called him and he said his printer was broken and needed the weekend to get it working and he'd get back to me on monday. I started looking at the title and saw that it was signed by his father on the seller line in september 2011, the purchaser line was left blank. so he obviously never registered/titled it in his name. So Monday comes along and he is not answering my calls. i drive over to his house and it looks like he may have moved. tpwd says i need him to transfer the title to his name, and then he can transfer it to me. BUT i cant get ahold of him to even fill out a bill of sale. Advise? sorry about the long post.

phatslim · Sep 4, 2013

Re: Bought boat with title but no bill of sale, what now

Sounds like a huge mess. I think you'll have better luck with TPW or even an attorney. But, from what I can gather above, it doesn't even sound like he had the right to sell the boat. I'll bet this can be resolved (or at least put in the proper motion) with a phone call and an explanation of what transpired.

rockyrude · Sep 4, 2013

Re: Bought boat with title but no bill of sale, what now

If the purchaser line was left blank, couldn't it be treated as if he bought from the guys father?

templetxboater · Sep 4, 2013

Re: Bought boat with title but no bill of sale, what now

rockyrude said:
If the purchaser line was left blank, couldn't it be treated as if he bought from the guys father?

thats kinda the way i was thinking i could go about it, but i need to take in the PWD 143, basically a bill of sale, with the fathers signature and have absolutley no idea how to get ahold of him short of paying for a person search ie intellius. and the father dated the signature on the back of the title sept 1 2011

Peter Eikenberry · Sep 4, 2013

Re: Bought boat with title but no bill of sale, what now

You may need a little assistance from law enforcement. call your state Boating Law Administrator. He may be able to locate this person for you a nugde him into sending you a Bill Of Sale

Boating Law Administrator
Cody Jones
4200 Smith School Rd.
Austin, TX 78744

Phone: 512.389.4624

Home Cookin' · Sep 4, 2013

Re: Bought boat with title but no bill of sale, what now

each state is different but here you need a title and not a bill of sale. For a $500 deal and no easy solution, I'd treat it like you bought it from the father and sign your name as buyer--and go back to a different office to register it. Worst case, he stole it from his dad!

But if your state requires a bill of sale, too, you may need to be creative.

templetxboater · Sep 4, 2013

Re: Bought boat with title but no bill of sale, what now

well wink wink i thought of something strictly hypothetical, of course, but i do have the fathers signature on the title, somehow it may make it to a bos......

crazyinkc · Sep 5, 2013

Re: Bought boat with title but no bill of sale, what now

Thats never happened before..............:0

Texasmark · Sep 5, 2013

Re: Bought boat with title but no bill of sale, what now

I live in TX. obviously and have bought and sold many items over the years. The on road vehicle registratio (local tax assessor/collectors office) and TPWD don't give a flip about anything but a valid title signed by the owner....person whose name is on the front. You don't even have to have it notarized any more. Most of the time the "sold to" box is left blank and you fill in your name or whomever bought the whatever.

You can get title change forms online just Google TPWD. On road vehicles there is a 10 day window as I recall to have the title changed. After that I think the fine is $10. Do not know of fine on boats and boat engines.

So, you don't have a problem. Go for it.

Mark

fletcher123 · Sep 5, 2013

Re: Bought boat with title but no bill of sale, what now

Texasmark said:
I live in TX. obviously and have bought and sold many items over the years. The on road vehicle registratio (local tax assessor/collectors office) and TPWD don't give a flip about anything but a valid title signed by the owner....person whose name is on the front. You don't even have to have it notarized any more. Most of the time the "sold to" box is left blank and you fill in your name or whomever bought the whatever.

You can get title change forms online just Google TPWD. On road vehicles there is a 10 day window as I recall to have the title changed. After that I think the fine is $10. Do not know of fine on boats and boat engines.

So, you don't have a problem. Go for it.

Mark

I'm in mn but I never got fined for waiting to transfer a boat. Was almost a yr when I did. Also what they do here is if you know name of boat owner then you can write a letter or acknowledge of how you got the boat and they will review it and generate a bill of sale or whatever they call it. Basically stating the events of sale. I currently have multiple titles in previous owners name and it has crossed my mind what to do If i want to sell any of them. Here it takes 3 months for a title transfer so technically couldn't sell for 3 mths from time of transfer or when getting title back in mail. Maybe it was this same fact that he bought from his father then never transferred due to still having current tabs etc and then needed money so sold it.

templetxboater · Sep 5, 2013

Re: Bought boat with title but no bill of sale, what now

my biggest worry about it is if i just sign my name on the title and everything goes fine, does the tpwd send the original owner a notice that there has been a transaction or do they just not send anything?

sublauxation · Sep 5, 2013

Re: Bought boat with title but no bill of sale, what now

I highly doubt they'll send anything as notification to the previous owner. At least here in MN they don't. If you really want a bill of sale make up your own and sign it yourself. I doubt anybody will look twice at it.

tpenfield · Sep 5, 2013

Re: Bought boat with title but no bill of sale, what now

Yea, I'd say do what you gotta do to make it like you purchased from the father. . . . might raise a question about him signing off in 2011. . . . you could just say the boat was in restoration for the past 2 years or something like that.

jayhanig · Sep 5, 2013

Re: Bought boat with title but no bill of sale, what now

tpenfield said:
Yea, I'd say do what you gotta do to make it like you purchased from the father. . . . might raise a question about him signing off in 2011. . . . you could just say the boat was in restoration for the past 2 years or something like that.

That's what I would do. Tell them (if they ask) that the boat was not seaworthy when you bought it and you didn't want to register it until you were sure it could be restored. One thing I've learned from hard experience: the least you say in a government office, the fewer problems you will have. So don't offer any extraneous information; only answer questions.

They're not going to write the father. Think about it: when you sell a car in Texas, do you ever hear another word about it from the state? Only the buyer gets correspondence if there's any to be sent.

frantically relaxing · Sep 5, 2013

Re: Bought boat with title but no bill of sale, what now

is "fathers" signature notarized? If so, the boat belongs to whoever holds the title. No bill of sale? Just say there was no sale, that you were paid $10 to take it. Even if the sig on the title isn't notarized, the signature indicates the PO agreed to part with the boat. Here in Utah, a signed title is ok as a bill of sale.

FWIW, the authorities are more than familiar with vehicles and titles changing hands over several 'owners' and years before someone actually re-titles the vehicle. The fact the title was signed 2 years ago shouldn't even raise an eyebrow--

Worst case as I see it, you call your local police and tell them you need a vehicle inspection. You can probably haul the boat to the DMV and they'll do it right there in the parking lot (they do here!) -- an officer will inspect the boat, serial numbers, etc, call in for a stolen vehicle report, if it's clean, they sign a paper saying so, then you take it and the title in and done deal.

spdracr39 · Sep 6, 2013

Re: Bought boat with title but no bill of sale, what now

Nobody cares about any history or info as long as they get the correct signatures and paperwork. I have had my local DMV tell me to go outside get it signed and come back in. She didn't say to do it myself but she knew I was alone.

Texasmark · Sep 6, 2013

Re: Bought boat with title but no bill of sale, what now

templetxboater said:
my biggest worry about it is if i just sign my name on the title and everything goes fine, does the tpwd send the original owner a notice that there has been a transaction or do they just not send anything?

Nothing. You just sign or print your name....read on the title. One thing you have to do when you sell something is to send notification to the appropriate agency that you sold something to John Doe on such and such a date so that they will have a record of the transaction if there becomes a problem later on where you as the seller might be liable. Because, asin this case, you have no control nor have no way of knowing when the purchaser will "pay the sales tax" and registration fee and get legal.

Mark

Texasmark · Sep 6, 2013

Re: Bought boat with title but no bill of sale, what now

Frantically Relaxing said:
is "fathers" signature notarized? If so, the boat belongs to whoever holds the title. No bill of sale? Just say there was no sale, that you were paid $10 to take it. Even if the sig on the title isn't notarized, the signature indicates the PO agreed to part with the boat. Here in Utah, a signed title is ok as a bill of sale.

FWIW, the authorities are more than familiar with vehicles and titles changing hands over several 'owners' and years before someone actually re-titles the vehicle. The fact the title was signed 2 years ago shouldn't even raise an eyebrow--

Worst case as I see it, you call your local police and tell them you need a vehicle inspection. You can probably haul the boat to the DMV and they'll do it right there in the parking lot (they do here!) -- an officer will inspect the boat, serial numbers, etc, call in for a stolen vehicle report, if it's clean, they sign a paper saying so, then you take it and the title in and done deal.

These people aren't stupid. If they suspect fraud they can cause you problems. They warn you about falsifying official documents.

He is good to go. He has a title with the buyer's blank ready for him to insert his name. He has the clear title with the signature of the person to whom the title was issued in the seller's block on the back (assuming this to be true). That's all he needs with the proper form off the www from Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (TPWD) properly filled out and the transfer fee mailed to the address on the form.

Mark

Bought boat with title but no bill of sale, what now

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