mechanic says it's the Trigger.

Well, the mechanic told me they tested my outboard, after I brought it in for having no/intermittent spark on cyl#2 on my 50hp Force(2cyl), and he said "looks like the trigger is bad, it failed the tests, so after we replace the trigger, we can figure out if it's being caused by anything else like the CD box, but we won't know if it is the box until we replace the trigger." He quoted me for $685 for trigger replacement. I told them leave it and am going to pick it up in the morning, yes I payed $95 for the diagnostic.
I plan to attempt to replace the trigger myself or bring it elsewhere. Does everything sound correct and make sense(the mechanic's story/am I making the right move)?
I am very mechanical & have two service manuals for this motor but haven't attempted something this in depth. I have rebuilt the carbs & lower unit but nothing electrical yet, although I do know some electrical. I called a few other mechanics & they said they'd cost around 500-600 so I guess the price is right.

Am I correct that once the trigger is on, that I have to set the timing on this machine? Can it be done with the Harbor Freight Timing Light with Advance for $30?

Re: mechanic says it's the Trigger.

most of the people on here swear by the cdi troubleshooting guide before replacing any parts so I would consider purchasing a meter and following the trouble shooting guide. You can find the guide online

Re: mechanic says it's the Trigger.

Attempt something in this depth. The service manuals should tell you how to test each and every elec. part. A mechanic that says replace this to test that isn't long lived as a mechanic.

Re: mechanic says it's the Trigger.

foodfisher said:

A mechanic that says replace this to test that isn't long lived as a mechanic.

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Do you mean it's kind of sketchy/fishy? I told them I was going to pick it up in the morning.

Re: mechanic says it's the Trigger.

If sketchy = suspect then yes. $95 diagnostic+$685 part to"maybe" fix the problem? What part will be next? Do your own diagnostics before you've paid for a new engine and have a fixed? used engine. You've apparently got the ability and this is just my opinion. PS: I don't know the distances involved but I believe JerryJerry5 is just across the isthmus from you.

Re: mechanic says it's the Trigger.

$95 to be told where the problem is seems fair if they said "the trigger tested bad but the pack tested good" not "maybe its the trigger and if its not then its the pack"
The other point is what test failed and how bad was it. It maybe the trigger but then again it may be the wire going to the trigger is damaged but you will not know until you get to it. If the mechanic finds a bad wire its getting a new trigger if you find a bad wire you have options.
It always comes down to the $$$ and what they mean compared to the work involved.

Re: mechanic says it's the Trigger.

If any mechanic suggested buying a part to test another part???
RUN!!! Fast and far.
He's just throwing parts at the unit.
You can do that yourself.
E-bay and Craigslist has Force parts and fairly cheap.
There are steps for diagnosis. Follow them.
Compression test, spark test.
Then outboard ignition . com or CDI ignition . com
Both have test procedures.

He's 3 hours away.

Change all the wire connectors.Stator and trigger, sometimes under the shrink/heat wrap the wire breaks.
It's a very TINY wire.

Re: mechanic says it's the Trigger.

jerryjerry05 said:

If any mechanic suggested buying a part to test another part???
RUN!!! Fast and far.
He's just throwing parts at the unit.
You can do that yourself.
E-bay and Craigslist has Force parts and fairly cheap.
There are steps for diagnosis. Follow them.
Compression test, spark test.
Then outboard ignition . com or CDI ignition . com
Both have test procedures.

He's 3 hours away.

Change all the wire connectors.Stator and trigger, sometimes under the shrink/heat wrap the wire breaks.
It's a very TINY wire.

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Okay, the first thing I will do is change all the wire connectors for the trigger & stator. The head does get extremely hot so I suppose it could break one of those tiny wires. It was working just fine before the last trip out which was a week prior so it seems like wtf, the trigger decided to stop working? Or the cdi box decided to just give up?
Probably is something simple like it always is. Will update late this afternoon if I can get to it

Re: mechanic says it's the Trigger.

Just wondering what year is this 50 HP engine?

Re: mechanic says it's the Trigger.

Jiggz said:

Just wondering what year is this 50 HP engine?

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1990, I can't read serial number nor could the prev owner but he was told by a mechanic that it's prob 89-91 & according to diagrams it looks like a 1990 to me.

Re: mechanic says it's the Trigger.

So, when I picked it up I asked the mechanic what test did it fail and he said that it's not putting out proper voltage on one of the wire sets. He said it was putting out .2 instead of the required .5 V. I don't have a DVA adapter to verify, I have heard that these people are good and they were very professional so I am going to take his word for it and replace the trigger. I figure worst case scenario, I replace the trigger & I'm still having the problems so I replace the CDI box & have basically a whole new electrical system. I ordered trigger from outboardignition.com because it was the cheapest - $170+$12(s&h). Should be here in a few days... will post results.

Re: mechanic says it's the Trigger.

acalabro said:

So, when I picked it up I asked the mechanic what test did it fail and he said that it's not putting out proper voltage on one of the wire sets. He said it was putting out .2 instead of the required .5 V. I don't have a DVA adapter to verify, I have heard that these people are good and they were very professional so I am going to take his word for it and replace the trigger. I figure worst case scenario, I replace the trigger & I'm still having the problems so I replace the CDI box & have basically a whole new electrical system. I ordered trigger from outboardignition.com because it was the cheapest - $170+$12(s&h). Should be here in a few days... will post results.

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And by the way, I did check the wire connectors, it looks like the mechanic slipped the sleeves back to check those as well. They look fine.

Re: mechanic says it's the Trigger.

acalabro said:

So, when I picked it up I asked the mechanic what test did it fail and he said that it's not putting out proper voltage on one of the wire sets. He said it was putting out .2 instead of the required .5 V. I don't have a DVA adapter to verify, I have heard that these people are good and they were very professional so I am going to take his word for it and replace the trigger. I figure worst case scenario, I replace the trigger & I'm still having the problems so I replace the CDI box & have basically a whole new electrical system. I ordered trigger from outboardignition.com because it was the cheapest - $170+$12(s&h). Should be here in a few days... will post results.

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You need to do the troubleshooting with the following steps while waiting for the new trigger. Since the problem is only on #2 cyl not having sparks try this one first:
1. Switch the coils first (remember the wirings stays only the coils moves. And then see if the problem moves also to #1 cyl. If so the coil on #2 cyl is bad. If the problem stays at #2 then both coils are good.

2. If both coils are good, take ohm reading on trigger ckts (wh-grn & red and wh-Yel & or) and the resistance should be around 48~52 ohms. Make sure you disconnect one wire when reading. If readings are correct, check resistance to ground for each ckt and it should be infinity. Any bad resistance reading will indicate a bad trigger especially with the ckt resistance reading. But don't jump to conclusion yet, instead remove the flywheel and inspect the wires make sure none is rubbing against ground.

3. If all resistance and ground readings are correct, there is only one component that can go bad and that is the CDM. However, if #1 cyl is firing but not #2, you can switch the wirings starting from the trigger connection up to the coil connections so that the CDM section feeding #1 cyl will now feed #2 cyl. Just make sure you take a photo so you can re-wire back to its original wire. Remember you have to follow the wire from the trigger all the way to the coils. And if the problem switches over, then the CDM is bad. For example according to the wiring schematic, the trigger wires for #2 cyl are white and red and connects to the white and red of the CDM feeding #2 cyl through the red or blue/red wire connecting to the coil for #2 cyl; to switch this over you need to connect the red and white trigger wires to the orange and green CDM wires for #1 cyl that feeds #1 coil thru orange or blue/orange wire.

For future discussion you can post a pic of the wiring boards so we can be more specific with the colors of wires. Also do you have a wiring diagram of the engine?

Re: mechanic says it's the Trigger.

Jiggz said:

You need to do the troubleshooting with the following steps while waiting for the new trigger. Since the problem is only on #2 cyl not having sparks try this one first:
1. Switch the coils first (remember the wirings stays only the coils moves. And then see if the problem moves also to #1 cyl. If so the coil on #2 cyl is bad. If the problem stays at #2 then both coils are good.

2. If both coils are good, take ohm reading on trigger ckts (wh-grn & red and wh-Yel & or) and the resistance should be around 48~52 ohms. Make sure you disconnect one wire when reading. If readings are correct, check resistance to ground for each ckt and it should be infinity. Any bad resistance reading will indicate a bad trigger especially with the ckt resistance reading. But don't jump to conclusion yet, instead remove the flywheel and inspect the wires make sure none is rubbing against ground.

3. If all resistance and ground readings are correct, there is only one component that can go bad and that is the CDM. However, if #1 cyl is firing but not #2, you can switch the wirings starting from the trigger connection up to the coil connections so that the CDM section feeding #1 cyl will now feed #2 cyl. Just make sure you take a photo so you can re-wire back to its original wire. Remember you have to follow the wire from the trigger all the way to the coils. And if the problem switches over, then the CDM is bad. For example according to the wiring schematic, the trigger wires for #2 cyl are white and red and connects to the white and red of the CDM feeding #2 cyl through the red or blue/red wire connecting to the coil for #2 cyl; to switch this over you need to connect the red and white trigger wires to the orange and green CDM wires for #1 cyl that feeds #1 coil thru orange or blue/orange wire.

For future discussion you can post a pic of the wiring boards so we can be more specific with the colors of wires. Also do you have a wiring diagram of the engine?

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Here's the wiring diagram

trigger is being fedexed so it should be here in a few days only. I've got the flywheel off, check trigger resistance between wire sets & a set failed, had 35 ohms. I will replace trigger, hopefully that does it, if not then CD box is bad. coils tested fine by the way, according to tests, I could get non-firing coil to fire when I reversed.

Re: mechanic says it's the Trigger.

So, I got the trigger in today, installed it and first few tries to start with spark checkers in line, I still had no spark on cyl2. Then I leaned back and said to myself mentally, "f*#*?" . However next try, I put in fast idle and she started. I then lowered throttle down to dead neutral and it stayed alive too! Maybe it took a move of the throttle up and down to adjust the new trigger in. But I tried it over and over in dead neutral and it started just like it should.

Only thing I'm wondering is it sounds like its idling faster than it used to, maybe the mechanic made an adjustment I called but he doesn't work on Saturday. Whatever the case, I'm taking her out tomorrow and am thoroughly relieved. Thanks for your help guys. I will update on how the whole day goes!

Re: mechanic says it's the Trigger.

So, put it in the water. Started with a few trys. I went to park the trailer & when I came back it was off. My mate who was sitting in the boat said it just went off. I couldn't get it started again.
Hooked up spark checker on both cyl & now I have no spark on either cylinder!?!?!
The rest of the day will be spent scratching my head.
Any ideas off hand?
Will call mechanic tomorrow I guess..

Re: mechanic says it's the Trigger.

unplug the big red connector that's the main boat harness then either use a piece of rope and try pull starting while your friend watch's the spark tester or if you understand the starter solenoid use a jumper and jump from the small red on the solenoid to the battery side terminal of the starter solinoid. This will make the solenoid close and the starter will spin so you can check for spark. If the engine sparks then you have a problem on the boat side. If you still have no spark the problem is on the motor side.

edit: had to add the word underlined my mistake

Re: mechanic says it's the Trigger.

glenn property of pam said:

unplug the big red connector that's the main boat harness then either use a piece of rope and try pull starting while your friend watch's the spark tester or if you understand the starter solenoid use a jumper and jump from the small red on the solenoid to the battery side terminal of the starter. This will make the solenoid close and the starter will spin so you can check for spark. If the engine sparks then you have a problem on the boat side. If you still have no spark the problem is on the motor side.

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The starter works with the key. I hooked up a spark tester to each of the two cyl & no spark on either now. Are you saying that I may have different results if I jump it?

Re: mechanic says it's the Trigger.

acalabro said:

The starter works with the key. I hooked up a spark tester to each of the two cyl & no spark on either now. Are you saying that I may have different results if I jump it?

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the big red plug also has the engine kill circuit in it. So by unplugging the big red plug you have removed the boat side of the wiring. You can also look for the black/yellow wire at the engine and remove that to disable the kill circuit if you like. The kill circuit shorts out the ignition on the motor killing the spark.

Re: mechanic says it's the Trigger.

Well, oddly enough, when I got home and got the outboard in a bucket. It started firing. It would only start and stay running if I put it in fast neutral though. I could slowly lower throttle to neutral and it stayed running with steady spark and then died after 20 seconds. Like it did at the ramp.
I'm very confused now.

On top of all this with my boat, my car broke down on the way back so I had to call aaa & a bud for the boat. Then when I got home I discovered that my snake got out of its cage. August 25 will be marked to stay home next year.