Marine ply info.

jurgenscraft

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Nov 6, 2004
Messages
227
Can any body out there explain to me, the difference between marine ply and normal ply wood.I notice that some guys use normal ply wood on their boats and apply marine varnish,I use marine ply and apply a penetrating epoxy, these guys recon that the normal ply wood will last just as long as the marine ply as long as the varnish is ok. I don't think so, I always thought that marine ply was manafactured in such a way that it was suitable for boat building and normal ply was for uses other than marine use ,what is the difference ?<br />Kind Regards William Wright.
 

crab bait

Captain
Joined
Feb 5, 2002
Messages
3,831
Re: Marine ply info.

you keep on doin' what your doin'..!!<br />you way is the right way..<br /><br />doug-fir<br />df marine ply has no voids..<br />df marine ply is made with waterproof glue..<br />df marine ply is made with the innard layers on an opposing 45 deg angle to the other plys..<br /><br />define ' normal ply'.. <br /><br />i take normal ply an no waterproof glue an major voids..<br /><br />doug-fir exterior ply <br />is made with the same waterproof glue..<br />df ext ply has voids..<br />df ext ply has same run innard layers..<br /><br /><br />varnish has no watersealing ability at all at the molecular level.. an that's where the rot starts/begins at the water molecule level..<br /><br />where as epoxy encapsulated/soaked.. stops the rot at the molecular level..<br /><br />keep up the good work practices..
 

GaBoats

Recruit
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
1
Re: Marine ply info.

Well, first let's define our terms.<br /><br />what is marine ply and what is normal plywood?<br /><br />"marine plywood" is a term used by the American Plywood Association to describe a certain grade of exterior fir plywood. you can refer to the APA site for the specific details, but the ONLY differences in "marine" ply and regular exterior grade fir is the width of the gaps allowed in the internal plies, and the finish.<br /><br />The difference in the gaps in the internal plies is between exterior and marine 1/8". contrary to what is often posted marine plywood can and does have voids in it.<br /><br />contrary to what many will post, "marine" fir plywood is not "stronger" than non-marine fir plywood. Marine plywood is made to the same strength specifications as exterior.<br /><br />Marine ply was developed primarily to have a nice face on both sides for ease of finishing and fairing. In the marine environment the patches ("dutchmen") will print through and so it was important to minimize their number and effect. So unless you're going for a yatch finish the use of marine plywod probably is not called for. In fact most of the transoms in pleasure boats in the United States have as their core some pretty rough exterior plywood.<br /><br />Then in the category of "normal" plywood, you have southern yellow pine, which is what you get in a large part of the country for plwood. SYP is more dense than fir, and so for an equal thickness of fir, (1/4 " say) SYP will be heavier AND stronger. <br /><br />Again depending on how important ease of finishing is SYP is perfectly suitable for building a boat. There are still thousands of plywood skiffs across the south that have survived for yers with nothing but a coat of porch paint to portiect them. Right now there is some very good B/C SYP that will compare with the best fir, and some outstanding A/C SYP. Basically all SYP is exterior grade.<br /><br />the you have pressure treated SYP, which is underrated as a boat building material, and which is being used more and more by commerical boat builders. Biggest rap on PT SYP is that it is ugly as homemmade sin, but for parts that will be fiberglassed or out of sight, its the ticket. It the material that isbeing used in more and more transoms.<br /><br />Then you hve the exotics, meranti and okume being the two prime ones. While many people refer to these generically as "marine", technically they are not. These plywoods can be any thing from asiatic trash, to being manufactured to certain standards which make them suitable for marine use. Occume is not at all durable --see the Glen-L site for a good discussion. Meranti is about as durable as pine or fir. Regardless of what anyone says, the primary advantage of these outrageously expensive exotics is that they have nice, patch free faces because the manufactures are still able to use old grwoth logs, and in the case of ocume, its very light (and correspondingly weak).
 

Richard Petersen

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Messages
778
Re: Marine ply info.

One other fact. Trees that grow constantly with no winters have no growth rings. To me the more growth rings, the stronger the wood. Try sanding growth rings.
 

sincraft

Seaman
Joined
May 24, 2005
Messages
72
Re: Marine ply info.

I've never noticed the difference between marine and regular quality exterior ply with voids etc.. After all, you ARE sealing this plywood with glass all around aren't you?<br /><br />Marine wood has insecticides in the glue that kills worms and borers that are found only in saltwater sooooooooo...going in saltwater?
 

tengals123

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jan 26, 2005
Messages
860
Re: Marine ply info.

depending on your application, exterior ply sealed with a few coats of epoxy will be fine.<br /><br />Cheers
 

Fishon1

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 24, 2004
Messages
31
Re: Marine ply info.

What about using MDO for flooring in a 16' fishing boat. MDO is used to make outdoor signs and thus is waterproof. I will be carpeting it so the faces of the wood is not important.
 

Pst76

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Messages
220
Re: Marine ply info.

MDO board will cost you about as much as the Marine grade would. Used to buy it for building Signs few yrs back and it was running around $ 85.00 for a 3/4" 4x8 sheet then.
 

RubberFrog

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Messages
4,268
Re: Marine ply info.

Originally posted by sincraft:<br />Marine wood has insecticides in the glue that kills worms and borers that are found only in saltwater....
Can you show me documentation of this? I have never heard this before.
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Marine ply info.

MDO (medium density overlay) is excellent for boatbuilding. It is usually produced to state highway department specifications and is supposed to last in extreme weather conditions with no checking, with only paint for protection for as I remember fifteen years with no deterioration. It is usually pressed up with douglas fir cores and centers, with a thin face on either side of lauan then over that the MDO, which is a phenolic resin impregnated paper which is stippled to easily take and retain paint. The MDO is impossible to separate from the plywood and is the reason why highway signs last practically forever.<br /><br />The cost of MDO varies, but sometimes is pretty expensive. Years ago as a consultant working in the plywood industry, I watched a lot of plywood being laid up in the glue room, and in general MDO gets at least as much care as marine plywood, sometimes more and even better materials on occasion. The plywood, with the thin lauan faces without MDO, HDO, or veneer overlays are called "Decolam Blanks", are occasionally available, and make great boat wood if you can find it. You can tell what it is by measuring it. Usually it is slightly undersize because the MDO or veneer is missing. Most dealers don't know what they've got, and think that the "off dimension" is because it is perhaps imported, but that's not the case. Usually, it is made in 1/2", 5/8", 3/4" and sometimes 1" thicknesses.<br /><br />
http://www.boat-links.com/plyfaq.html <br /><br />In the Bruce McDugal boat restoration video, he says all he now uses MDO almost exclusively
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: Marine ply info.

Now you tell us Ralph. :p Where was this info when I started my Renov project. A year ago there were a lot of questions asked about plywood substitutes but no good answers.
 

Fishon1

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 24, 2004
Messages
31
Re: Marine ply info.

I am paying $43 per 4x8 sheet for 1/2". I thought that it would be good since it was made for outdoor use.<br /><br />At least I did something right.
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: Marine ply info.

Originally posted by Fishon1:<br /> I am paying $43 per 4x8 sheet for 1/2". I thought that it would be good since it was made for outdoor use.<br /><br />At least I did something right.
That was for MDO, Fishon?? That sounds cheap for MDO. Where you located? And I'll take this opportunity to express a pet peeve.<br /><br />FILL IN YOUR LOCATION ON YOUR SIGNATURE LINE!!!!<br /> :mad:
 

Rudderman

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Messages
283
Re: Marine ply info.

Originally posted by sincraft:<br />Marine wood has insecticides in the glue that kills worms and borers that are found only in saltwater....
I always thought that the glue used in marine plywood was the same stuff as 'exterior' plywood.<br />"Phenol formaldehyde" if I remember correctly. You can tell by the black glueline. <br />Phenol formaldehyde is fungus resistant but I've never heard of it having an insecticide in it.<br /><br />I would always use marine plywood rather than exterior for a boat because:<br /><br />1: Exterior ply DOES have voids in it, you may not be able to see them at the edges.<br />2: The outer plies on exterior plywood can be very very thin, weakening the board.<br />3: In some cases, the glue has not been applied with so much care on exterior plywood, or not been pressed properly, leading to delamination or bubbles in the ply.<br />4: The wood species used in exterior ply does not have to be classed as "durable", while it does for marine ply.<br />5: Marine ply is so much nicer to work with because it is more uniform and more stable.
 

jurgenscraft

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Nov 6, 2004
Messages
227
Re: Marine ply info.

Thank you for all the input regarding my original post regarding marine ply wood,I was able to speak to one of the technical reps at our local timber market here in Johannesburg South Africa and he went through the whole manufacturing process and explained that Marine ply out here is manufactured mainly for the boat building industry, (which because of the good weather we have out here , is a very big industry,) but he also said that plywood out here might not be the same as in the USA he also gave me a technical Data sheet expaining the structure as well as the manufacturing and testing process of marine ply , so I will use marine ply for what I have to do on boats,thank you all for all the intrest shown.King Regards William Wright
 

Fishon1

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 24, 2004
Messages
31
Re: Marine ply info.

Yes that was for MDO 4'x8" - 1/2" thick. The price was in the Midwest at Menards, a home improvement store.<br /><br />Works great with no voids.
 

MercMark

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
May 20, 2003
Messages
149
Re: Marine ply info.

The plywood I found at Rona (canadian lumber chain) was teak and CAD$206 per sheet. I used select grade douglas fir and coated it twice with epoxy.
 

sundog

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 14, 2003
Messages
138
Re: Marine ply info.

Ive heard mostly the same as Gaboats. One important thing I havent seen mentioned here concerning is the use of exterior ply. Exterior Ply is basically the same as marine (here in the states) with the exceptions of voids in internal plies. <br /><br />Regular exterior ply can be used on ANY flat surface, so long as its sealed properly, and it will have the same strength as Marine. <br /><br />Marine MUST be used in hull construction...a void in the ply while trying to spring or bend the plywood forms a weak point that can buckle under stress. that is the main difference. <br /><br />transom are a crap shoot...when mounting your engine, any holes you drill COULD hit a void in exterior ply. if that happens, you have to fill the void to avoid possible rot, and as you tighten your mounting bolts, if your over a void you could crack the exterior ply agian leaving yourself open to possible rot unless you do a good job sealing. If you dont hit any voids, and youve got a flat transom properly sealed, it works fine.
 

river37091

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Feb 21, 2004
Messages
36
Re: Marine ply info.

hi everyone,i'm going to redo my deck on a pontoon.will pt syp 3/4 be good enough?
 
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