Prop question (I think....) 211 Liberator

So first off, I searched....and I am not sure if this is even the correct place to post this....


Low WOT...(I know I know...)


Full tune up, filters and timing is good, but I am still getting low WOT...

It is a Mercruiser 260 (5.7) 1985 with Thunderbolt IV Ignition, in a Four Winns Liberator 211 (new to me)

I am only getting to 3800-4000 RPMS, which seems to be the range the most people achieve on here when they are having issues.

A buddy of mine is going to let me use his 19p (21p on it now) this weekend to see if it helps, but from all the reading I have done about this boat, I am starting to think a 21p is what came on the boat originally and would like to fix any other issues before trying a smaller prop.

Current Prop setup is a Quicksilver 48 11070 A40 21P.

Seems after doing some reading that this prop has caused other people issues before?

At 3900RPM, I am hitting 44mph (GPS), although the other day I had 3/4 tank of gas and 4 adults and 2 kids and was only hitting 39mph, which I totally understand the weight difference makes an impact. This is my first "Go-fast" boat, but all the hearsay is telling me this should easily be a 50mph boat.

Next on my list to change is the ignition sensor inside the distributor. From all the back and forth reading about them, it seems that these control the timing advance.

IF this is in the wrong section I apologize, but any help would be Appreciated!

Thanks!

Tom

Re: Prop question (I think....) 211 Liberator

Well lets assume something's....1.5 gearing 21p prop at 4600 rpm nets 55mph at a 10% slip ratio. Now that is a bit strong for that engine boat and weight combo. In general a 17 to 19 is the norm for that combo.At this point just keep drooping pitch until it hits 4600 then measure speed. Right now im working a boat very similar to your's im going to use a line of prop's called turbo's also known as Stilleto's. The t1 is a dead bet for that boat however i am going to tinker with a TXP...big Overall lift...if i can get it done before you find the correct pitch i will post the result's....By the way a 5.7 is a tad small for that lib i doubt you will see 50 with a load of people.

Re: Prop question (I think....) 211 Liberator

Ok thats what I was thinking,

I recently just called Four winns and they said the prop that came on the boat when it was new was a 14x19 so that is what I am shooting for. Had to go through this crap with my last boat....so much fun!!!

Thank you! A buddy of mine has a 19 aluminum one I am going to try hopefully tonight, will let you know the outcome...

Re: Prop question (I think....) 211 Liberator

Well I tried that 19p last night and did the same thing, stayed at 4000 RPM, not sure of speed, thought I started the app on my phone but I did not.

I am starting to think I have Timing issues. Hopefully get that sorted out tonight. Also have the original ignition sensor in the distributor, Maybe its not advancing?

I suppose this thread could probably be moved now that It will have nothing to do with props anymore...

Re: Prop question (I think....) 211 Liberator

You can check the timming with a inductive timming light, when your at wot, shoot the timming, I would think it should be in the 30's. You can hook the light up when your at idle. You may want to mark the balancer first too. Also you can take the dist cap off and check the weights and springs too. You should be able to twist the rotor, and it should pop back, as its spring loaded. At least thats the way most dist work as far as I know.

Re: Prop question (I think....) 211 Liberator

Does it have weights and springs though? It just has the sensor inside of the cap.

Will setting the timing to 8 BTDC on muffs be different from setting it on the water? From all the reading, I have gathered it should advance 30 around 2500-3000RPM, so 22ish at WOT? I know I cant test WOT in the driveway, but can I initially set it there?

Also, is there any way to test that ignition sensor before I buy one?

Getting close to completing that Low WOT list, and I am keeping my fingers crossed before I get to compression check.....

Re: Prop question (I think....) 211 Liberator

As you write this stuff I am bringing a 87 454 back to life. With that said it is a journey...so a 19 wouldn't do the job..... ok listen close to this thought.....Force it to do the job.....lower the pitch to a 17. Now if it wont wind up then check the fuel supply..these old boats have a lot of issues and fuel......l carbs ...... will be the center of attention...jeez there 20yrs old the timing is electronic it works or it doesn't that's not the problem....I think.....

Re: Prop question (I think....) 211 Liberator

Thanks, I have ruled out fuel delivery for now, even down to the hoses.

Never had a chance to do timing last night due to a bad starter, hopefully tonight I might have better luck. Sad part is I went through all this crap with my last boat. Never ending unless you are fortunate enough to own brand new...

Re: Prop question (I think....) 211 Liberator

As far as the timming issue, it would be 30 plus 8, not minus 8. Although I think thats a bit high, I would think more like 32 @ 3000 rpm. Can you move the rotor, when its not running, it should move in one direction only, and snap back from the springs.

Re: Prop question (I think....) 211 Liberator

To be honest I have not tried.

Re: Prop question (I think....) 211 Liberator

It should be a v22 module so setting it 8 give you 30 degree's when its all in. Little conservative but its a heavy duty cycle boat engine.

Re: Prop question (I think....) 211 Liberator

Hopefully I Will be able to check tonight if I can get all my other issues situated...

Re: Prop question (I think....) 211 Liberator

Have you verified that the secondaries are opening, even part way? The quadrajets have a secondary blockoff lever that will keep them from opening up in some cases, specifically when the choke is still engaged. when you hit the throttles does it go 'BuuWAAAAA'.. sort of..? there are a couple things that will keep the engine from running on the secondaries which could be your problem..

Reason I ask is when my carb was not working correctly, the secondaries would not open up and the max I could get was 3800-4100 RPM. and it took AGES to get to 4100.

I had three problems with my carb preventing it from running on the secondaries. First was the secondary block off linkage that was not pulling off because of a missing divorced choke. Next I had a miss-adjusted air valve spring, then I found a plugged secondary fuel feed tube, and last, my fuel inlet seat was the small .110 diameter. I added a divorced choke that correctly pulled open the blockoff lever, adjusted the secondary air valve spring and cam, drilled out the partially plugged secondary feed passage, and last drilled out the seat to .135. All these changes finally let me run up to 4900 RPM with no hesitation at all. the boat is a completely different animal now.

Re: Prop question (I think....) 211 Liberator

Unfortunately you are speaking a different language...Ive rebuilt many small engine carbs, but this is all new to me.

I can tell you the engine revs up no prop sitting still, the choke does not work, not sure if hooked up or not? And the secondaries are the large butterflies on top correct?

Re: Prop question (I think....) 211 Liberator

on a Merc 260, they have a quadrajet carb. since the secondaries are 'on demand' it is nearly impossible to test the operation without load. You CAN check the secondary blockoff cam without the engine running tho. I will see if I can post some pictures and instructions when I get home.

so when you are just puttering around at 1/4 to 1/2 half throttle, does the engine run and respond as you would expect?

Re: Prop question (I think....) 211 Liberator

Yes Radarman, just cruising around it is very responsive.

Last night I finally adjusted my timing, now it idles a bit high at 800RPM and cuts out when shifting into neutral...

But while I was in there, I noticed the vacuum line going from the vacuum diaphragm to the carb had a slice in it, I think I read somewhere that this is for the secondaries?

Re: Prop question (I think....) 211 Liberator

that sounds like the choke pulloff and it really is important to have all vacuum lines intact and correct. I would replace that line asap.. it could affect your performance, but as I think about it, I don't think it would cause any WOT issues, rather it would be idle issues and stuff.

800 is a bit high, so the idle adjustment screw is on the right hand side of the carb right below the throttle linkage. I believe it should be set to 650.

Re: Prop question (I think....) 211 Liberator

an example of the secondaries opening up is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15hoakR0QwA at 0.03 seconds, he nails it and you can hear the secondaries 'roar'. when you hit it in your boat you should hear the same sound.

Re: Prop question (I think....) 211 Liberator

Thats where it idled at before I adjusted the timing, I highly doubt the previous owner did anything to it other than do things to make my life harder...lol

Does the idle adjustment screw adjust the linkage or is it air/fuel adjustment?

Re: Prop question (I think....) 211 Liberator

The 211 Libby, according to the original Four Winns manual, did 52 mph with the 260HP 5.7L Mercruiser. Been on several, and that speed is correct.