E140TLCO, Flywheel timing marks off.

BuncesPassBoater · Aug 1, 2013

Greeting Everyone,
I just bought a 1985 Evinrude 140 V4. When I bought the motor it was running great on muffs and thought I purchased a good motor. However, I've had problems with it since I brought it home. I'll spare the details on some of the stupid things I did trying to run/test it and get right to the immediate problem...

I wanted to check the timing and when I tried to confirm TDC on # 1 piston discovered that it is off by about 135 degrees. (pic attached)

What should I do?

I've been soaking flywheel nut with breakfree thinking I'm going to have to pull the flywheel and and just re-install correctly. My question is will that affect the alignment of the flywheel magnets, charge coil, sensor coil and stator assembly? Any advice/input is greatly appreciated.

I've read so much and picked up alot of info already from this forum that has been very helpful. You guys are great and I'm impressed by how much time and effort you put in to help out guys like me. I'm mechanically inclined and pretty intuitive but have just enough experience to make things worse and get my self into trouble. Thanks in advance.

boobie · Aug 1, 2013

Re: E140TLCO, Flywheel timing marks off.

Does the mtr run now and how does it run ??

HenryB · Aug 1, 2013

Re: E140TLCO, Flywheel timing marks off.

Viewing the motor from the rear is the #1 cylinder that you are using the top left one, or the top right one?

BuncesPassBoater · Aug 1, 2013

Re: E140TLCO, Flywheel timing marks off.

boobie said:
Does the mtr run now and how does it run ??

I did get it to run with alot of cranking and manual choking and throttle wide open to start.
I couldn't keep it running on regular idle and power was up and down throught the throttle.
It died and I couldn't restart it.
Thanks for your help.

BuncesPassBoater · Aug 1, 2013

Re: E140TLCO, Flywheel timing marks off.

HenryB said:
Viewing the motor from the rear is the #1 cylinder that you are using the top left one, or the top right one?

Deleted incorrect posting.

glenn property of pam · Aug 1, 2013

Re: E140TLCO, Flywheel timing marks off.

you located tdc by pulling the plug or is this where the timing light says that number one is firing?

boobie · Aug 1, 2013

Re: E140TLCO, Flywheel timing marks off.

You have #3 and #4 reversed. Check the flywheel key.

Bosunsmate · Aug 1, 2013

Re: E140TLCO, Flywheel timing marks off.

Make sure you put nice strong high tensile flywheel bolts on and dont thread them down too deep as you can screw into something that is very expensive if its being holed.
Try and measure how deep you can get the bolts in before you screw them as you will want a lot of thread in there too.
Yes changing the flywheel position will affect timing. It must line up with the woodruff key. The groove in top of crankshaft where key sits must slot through slot in flywheel - an easy system!

BuncesPassBoater · Aug 1, 2013

Re: E140TLCO, Flywheel timing marks off.

BuncesPassBoater said:
From the rear. (starboard side) Top/Right #1, Bottom Right #4
From the rear. (port side) Top/Left #2, Bottom Left #3

Thanks for your help.

Sorry, mis-stated:

Right/Starboard =
Top = #1
Botton= #3

Left/Port =
Top = #2
Bottom = #4

Thanks again.

Faztbullet · Aug 1, 2013

Re: E140TLCO, Flywheel timing marks off.

thinking I'm going to have to pull the flywheel and and just re-install correctly.

If the flywheel key is not sheared then start hunting for a flywheel as hub magnet has broken loose which is common with the looper engines.

BuncesPassBoater · Aug 2, 2013

Re: E140TLCO, Flywheel timing marks off.

glenn property of pam said:
you located tdc by pulling the plug or is this where the timing light says that number one is firing?

I pulled the plug and found TDC on all 4 cylinders and marked on the flywheel. All 4 cylinders were firing in order and in the same location relative to the flywheel but it was in the location as it is oriented in the picture. Not where the factory timing pointer mounted on the motor is.
Will I be able to pull the flywheel and re-orientate it so TDC #1 on flywheel is lined up with the timing pointer on the motor when #1 cylinder is actually at TDC position?

Additionally, I forgot to originally post that to get it to run I had to change the firing order as follows:
#1 coil to #2 spark plug
#2 coil to #3 spark plug
#3 coil to #4 spark plug
#4 coil to #1 spak plug
So, in essence, #2 sparkplug/cylinder became #1 and the rest fired in correct order.
Thanks for your help.

Faztbullet · Aug 2, 2013

Re: E140TLCO, Flywheel timing marks off.

Has timer base or pack been replaced recently?

BuncesPassBoater · Aug 2, 2013

Re: E140TLCO, Flywheel timing marks off.

Faztbullet said:
Has timer base or pack been replaced recently?

Timer base looks original and power pack looks newer.
Upon review, I've discovered that the power pack is for a 1986/1987 and my motor is a 1985. I've ordered a power pack for a 1985 and should be here tomorrow.
Once I've installed that I'm wondering if I should still pull the flywheel and re-orient it so that TDC #1 stamped on flywheel is matching up with the actual/factory Timer Pointer on the motor or if I can just make a new timer pointer reference mark on the motor where my new markings for ACTUAL TDC # 1 is?
Thanks again for your help.

phillnjack2 · Aug 2, 2013

Re: E140TLCO, Flywheel timing marks off.

who says this is the correct flywheel or correct place for timing mark pointer ?

it seems strange that the engine runs ok but the flywheel is out 135 degrees ???????
it just wouldnt run any good at all if that were the case.

the powerpack wikll either work or wont, it aint gonna change the timing marks on the flyweel.

have you actualy put a pin in the no 1 cylinder and then notice when the piston is at its closest to the plug TDC ?
AND taken note of where the timing mark on the flywheel is at this very point in piston travel on number 1 ?.

i would take plug out and see where the TDC is on number 1 before going any further.

phill

glenn property of pam · Aug 2, 2013

Re: E140TLCO, Flywheel timing marks off.

you really need to pull the flywheel to check the key. Only then will you know if something else is wrong.

HenryB · Aug 2, 2013

Re: E140TLCO, Flywheel timing marks off.

Removing the flywheel is a daunting task. I had to grind down the sides of a socket wrench to get it to grip on the nut. Then I had to use a rope loop with a twist bar to hold the wheel from turning. Then I had to purchase a wheel puller from the local auto shop. What a pain that was. It seems obvious, though the wheel must come off. Whatever the problem be it will be under the flywheel. A shop should be able to tell you what’s wrong in an hour, the key, the magnets, the timer base. It should cost no more than a hundred bucks to trouble shoot. You should be able to fix whatever they find if you prefer going that route. Running a badly timed engine could damage it big time.

That's assuming the mark on the flywheel in the photo represents the TDC of # 1 cylinder.

Bosunsmate · Aug 2, 2013

Re: E140TLCO, Flywheel timing marks off.

Yes as above you shouldnt run it with timing this far out. Pistons dont like having a pressure flame front hit when they are going anywhere other than near tdc.
You can coil rope into a sparkplug hole and use that to hold the crankshaft from spinning while you remove the nut. Be sure to mark everything first as the flywheel will probably jump off so you wont be able to tell, unless you marked it first, whether the flywheel was misaligned (unless the key stays entact)

BuncesPassBoater · Aug 10, 2013

Re: E140TLCO, Flywheel timing marks off.

Update:
Thanks for all your help everyone. I did pull the flywheel and the key was sheared. The flywheel had rotated and there was a little burr on the flywheel and on the shaft. Should I file both of these down smooth again before putting back together? Any input is appreciated. Thanks again. This forum and the wealth of knowledge you guys share is awesome.

Another question...What would cause the key to shear?

Joe Reeves · Aug 10, 2013

Re: E140TLCO, Flywheel timing marks off.

BuncesPassBoater said:
I did pull the flywheel and the key was sheared. The flywheel had rotated and there was a little burr on the flywheel and on the shaft. Should I file both of these down smooth again before putting back together?.What would cause the key to shear?

The flywheel key must be the correct key 307480... not some look alike key from a hardware store. The wrong key will cause shearing.

The flywheel nut must be torqued to factory specifications. another member will no doubt jump in here with that figure. Not being torqued properly will cause shearing.

The flywheel key must be inserted into the keyway with the straight edge of the key aligned vertically with the engine, NOT aligned with the crankshaft taper.

And yes... clean up any burrs, scores that exist on the tapers of the crankshaft and the flywheel.

To avoid any possible confusion, standing in back of the engine and facing the spark plugs, the cylinders of a 4 cylinder engine are marked as follows:

2.....1

4.....3

boobie · Aug 10, 2013

Re: E140TLCO, Flywheel timing marks off.

Flywheel torque, 140-145 ft lbs.

E140TLCO, Flywheel timing marks off.

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