It's happened again.

This is becoming all to frequent and for too many reason. For all us DIY rebuilders this is the best reason to replace all flotation foam and have life preservers at hand.

Lake Mary drowning victim identified – West of the I

Re: It's happened again.

Sad. Until we develop the means to breath water it will continue. I was thinking about things like this on my drive to work. People have no clue how quickly a delightful day on the water can turn tragic.

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This makes 2 in 3 years with a near fatal last summer. This lake in less than 300 acres, yet gets a lot of traffic.

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I'm not clear what evidence indicates this was an issue with the foam coring of the boat. Not all boats are foam cored, such as mine for example. Yes a foam cored boat will float provided the foam isn't saturated. However there is nothing saying the boat was or wasn't cored or that contributed to its sinking. There is also no evidence that pdf's weren't present on the boat. We're making a lot of assumptions here.

I agree it's very sad, but an odd post.

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Very odd - you would think that if you felt the need to abandon ship that you would have put on a life jacket.

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yikes that is only 15 minutes from me!! A word to all that life vest must be worn while under power at all times.

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Sometimes I would imagine you don't have enough advance notice. In skydiving we leave the plane fully equipped, trained, and ready for something bad to happen. It's drilled in repeatedly and becomes a routine prior to the descent.

I have to review my boating situation because I can't say I have the same level of preparedness. If trouble came really quick it would be an issue.

Re: It's happened again.

shrew said:

I'm not clear what evidence indicates this was an issue with the foam coring of the boat. Not all boats are foam cored, such as mine for example. Yes a foam cored boat will float provided the foam isn't saturated. However there is nothing saying the boat was or wasn't cored or that contributed to its sinking. There is also no evidence that pdf's weren't present on the boat. We're making a lot of assumptions here.

I agree it's very sad, but an odd post.

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Why do you find it odd? Take it as a warning which is how it is meant!

All you need to do is visit the restore section of this forum and read how many times it is asked, "Do I need to put the foam back in?"

But again I will state. This is 2 deaths in 3 years on this water. Both very simular in nature. And in the last 5 years there have been 2 others that were near fatal.

I will repeat what oldjeep states below. I just can't believe no one had a jacket on when recovered!

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Yeah but IF the boat had floatation foam it would have still taken on water. The article says nothing to assume that the boat slipped down to the bottom underneath them. It just says they jumped from a boat that was taking on water.

PFD's are the hero's here! First why the kids were struggling in PFD's, they weren't wearing them. The adults unfortunately didn't know what they were doing from moment one, then to add to it they didn't have their PFD's accessible (crammed under a seat or in a cuddy is not accessible) and they jumped off the boat!!!

Also it doesn't say the size of the boat. Foam becomes moot at a point.

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Yeah but IF the boat had floatation foam it would have still taken on water. The article says nothing to assume that the boat slipped down to the bottom underneath them. It just says they jumped from a boat that was taking on water.

PFD's are the hero's here! First why the kids were struggling in PFD's, they weren't wearing them. The adults unfortunately didn't know what they were doing from moment one, then to add to it they didn't have their PFD's accessible (crammed under a seat or in a cuddy is not accessible) and they jumped off the boat!!!

Also it doesn't say the size of the boat. Foam becomes moot at a point.

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Yea, I'm not sure if this is an example of no or insufficient foam, as nothing was said about in what state the boat ended up. . . . perhaps it is merely in issue of PDF's or lack of.

Point taken about the restoration forum and the folks who believe that flotation in boats (typically foam) is not necessary or has water retention evils. I always caution in favor of adding foam flotation, and to a greater extent than what was there originally.

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I'm taking by the replies here that most feel this a freak accedent, which it might have been. Yes there is no metion of the outcome to the boat. Whether it sank or was just swamped. Also doesn't state the size of the boat or if PFD's were present.

My whole point of posting this was that even if this were a freak accedent it is also the second fatal drowning from a boat in 3 years on the same lake so to me that says something. Especially sense this is a small 300 acre lake and a boat larger than 20' on this lake is a very big boat with the acceptions of the very large pontoons.

I also bring this up to show how a day on the water can unexpectedly turn tragic even on a small body of water. Especially when unprepared! In the follow up article the witness states that the 27 year old man went into the water and never surfaced again. Which then brings to mind that if he could not swim then why was he w/o a PFD when he entered the water? Then the second question becomes what made them think that they had to abandon this vessel? With the size of the common boats on this lake most all should have flotation foam installed in them.

I follow the iboats forums closely and all one needs do is look daily at the number of posts from 1st time boaters and you will see that it is huge! Next look at the resto forums as I stated earlier and the number of posters that ask if they really need to replace the foam that they have removed from their boats.
Just by those two examples I would guess that most of these newbies do not know that their boats have floatation foam in them or even what it's purpose is. And because of that they do not know or realize that in a situation were the boat is taking on water or sinking that it is much safer to stay with the boat than to go into the water. Which is also a point I made to my wife and instructed her the same advice to stay with the boat as long as possible.

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oldjeep said:

Very odd - you would think that if you felt the need to abandon ship that you would have put on a life jacket.

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This is why I love my low profile vest, and they aren't much $$ at Walmart. I wear it all the time and it isn't restrictive. I don't understand the whole mentality of having them on the boat and not on the person. How many people a year get knocked out and never have a chance to get one on. I'm not even 30 so if this sense has come to me others should pick it up.

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the condition of the boat, good or bad, has little to do with it once it swamps. A "floatation" boat once swamped will roll with barely any movement--that sends everyone overboard and traps the PFD's in the storage lockers under the hull. Or it will sink with just a little bow sticking up--same effect.

A non-swimmer will panic and drown--there is no "why" about sticking to the boat, hanging on, staying in or putting on a PFD, because there is panic, not thinking.

It's very hard for a person to put on a PFD in the water. Harder if they can't swim. Harder if they are a child or never put one on before. Harder if they panic. Even harder if the PFD is up under the hull.

Those BUO life preservers are hard enough to put on while standing on shore, much more so when overboard (Big Ugly Orange)

Even a large boat with flotation, once swamped, will go down in mere seconds--no time to grab anything. I've seen this.

So while the initial comment about flotation in the first post is extraneous, the point about wearing PFD's, especially non-swimmers, and that one can't just grab one and put it on in an emergency, is the teaching point here.

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i have this one in bright red

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Jetpilot-Strike-Nylon-PFD-Vest/21697592

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ThrottleBack said:

This is why I love my low profile vest, and they aren't much $$ at Walmart. I wear it all the time and it isn't restrictive. I don't understand the whole mentality of having them on the boat and not on the person. How many people a year get knocked out and never have a chance to get one on. I'm not even 30 so if this sense has come to me others should pick it up.

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I can't imagine wearing one all the time, and would be hard pressed to find anyone but fishermen (dressed in long pants and long shirts) and children under 12 wearing them on any given day at the lake. That being said, we are all skiiers and very strong swimmers. The PFD's are within reach if anyone felt the need to grab one.

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It would be a good execise (for all of us) to test the "within reach" of the PFDs.

Some LEO's make everyone have a PFD on and fastened within 20-30 seconds to test whether you comply with the "readily accessible" requirement. they also look for stuff on top of the PFDs, how deep in a compartment, etc. You fail if they are still in the plastic. INflatables and float coats don't count as PFD's unless they are being worn. Try it one day with your typical crew after the boat is fully packed and loaded and ready to go.

20-30 seconds seems extreme but you aren't rushing to put them on except if something extreme happens--unexpected swamp, engine fire, hit an obstruction, everyone goes to one side of the boat suddenly, etc. Then you truly have seconds, or less.

No matter how good a swimmer you are, if you end up in the water it's after something unexpected and usually violent occurs, and you are likely to be injured or knocked out at the time. This includes a slip at the dock. A loose PFD will be snatched right off you (recall falling off a ski ot tube). That's what you must prepare for, not jumping off the side to cool off while anchored.

On a related note, I heard about a dirty trick: guy comes to the ramp dock with 4 people aboard; LEO asks if he can board and inspect and guy agrees. LEO steps on and writes him a ticket for overloaded boat--it was rated for 4 and he makes 5. Or maybe it was that he only had 4 PFD's aboard--same point. He was legal until the LEO got on.

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oldjeep said:

I can't imagine wearing one all the time, and would be hard pressed to find anyone but fishermen (dressed in long pants and long shirts) and children under 12 wearing them on any given day at the lake. That being said, we are all skiiers and very strong swimmers. The PFD's are within reach if anyone felt the need to grab one.

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I'm fishing in a tee shirt and shorts and i wear it all the time. I'm a strong swimmer too and could easily keep it within reach but none of that will do me much good in the event that I loose consciousness, break an arm or leg, etc. To each his own but every year hundreds die when a pfd was within reach and they knew how to swim, you can blame some of those on bad decisions but most of them I would bet getting to the pfd and/or getting it on just was not possible.