1984 Bayliner Capri rotten floor and transom

pmjr0987

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Hello guys here is some background info...

I just sold my 1986 bayliner 16' for $1700 and picked up a pretty clean 84 19' for $1000 as I wanted to go bigger and same some money for additional items gas etc. I wanted a bigger boat as the 16' was not an ideal size for how choppy the Hudson River is sometimes in NY.

Anyway, i figured is cut out the soft floor this fall but could use it for the next month of two as is and enjoy the season...

When I trim up the motor and push on it I can get it to rock. The transom is flexing. With my 250# on the motor I can bounce and get the whole back of the boat flexing about a half inch or so. No signs of stress cracks or rot really anywhere outside but I know that's different when you dig in...

I want to fix this so I can enjoy the boat. I only plan to get a two more seasons out of it and than sell the boat for whatever I can and upgrade in size again.

The rear transom is not flat. Its actually curves out where the motor is installed so does that mean it's plywood core is three pieces? There is no way to me to get a piece of plywood to bend that much I'm thinking it's a three piece.

I want to replace just the center section basically dog out the old plywood core with a chainsaw clean it out and dump a ton of epoxy in the hole along with the correct thickness of plywood all the way to the keel.... Than I just have to reinstall the cap of fiberglass in the middle and not take the whole top of the boat apart at the gun rail. Its only a 125hp force motor so I'm thinking a repair like this would be ok.

What do you guys think? Am I waisting my time with the boat? Or is it worth it to do a repair like this to get a few more seasons out of it before scraping out or selling the boat?
 

tpenfield

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Re: 1984 Bayliner Capri rotten floor and transom

Some pictures would help. Keep in mind that the boat has had about 30 years to absorb water and rot out. So there probably is more than what you can see. If things are flexing to the extent that you describe, then probably not a lot of choice, but to fix it.

Plenty of Bayliner restoration threads here on iBoats to give you some pointers, etc. When you go to upgrade, you can offer the boat with a high level of confidence that it is solid. . . assuming you go forward and fix it now.

It may be real tough to sell in its current condition.
 

Woodonglass

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Re: 1984 Bayliner Capri rotten floor and transom

Welcome to iBoats!

A soft Floor and Flexing transom are all indicators that your boat needs immediate attention and repair. Having it on the water with a 125 hp motor on it is not a good idea. I'd start the repairs immediately and not take any more chances. Your described repair is not a good one in my opinion. You can use Nidabond or Arjay or other pour in composite materials but they are pricey. The more conventional repair is more cost effecient but more labor intensive. I think you will find you will need to replace the deck and stringers as well as the transom when you do a more thorough inspection of the boat. Post up some pics of the boat so we can see what you're working on.

We'll be here to help if you decide to fix the boat.

WelcomeAboard.jpg
 
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DAN M VAGOS

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Re: 1984 Bayliner Capri rotten floor and transom

I agree sounds like its in bad condition just make shore that the motor runs 100% it would be a kick in the *** if you got it all fixed up and the motor is junk.
 

pmjr0987

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Re: 1984 Bayliner Capri rotten floor and transom

Thanks guys idk how to post pics here besides linking to Photobucket or something but I'll take some close ups. I do not want to do a total repair to the boat. I want to get it safe. I'm mad at myself for buying the boat without applying a good amount of pressure to the outboard to check flex. From what I can tell the stringers are solid on the outside of them a nice solid thud when hit with a hammer. I am planning to cut out the floor for the most part and install 5 ply 3/4" plywood in its place, covered in epoxy front and back.

My question is why can't I slide in new wood down the whole I'll make in the transom? It will go all the way to the floor and will be supported by the stringers. Was thinking about filling the hole with a few I chest of epoxy then shoving the sandwiched plywood in the hole and in doing so the epoxy will ooze all around it bonding all the layers. There are no signed of rot from inside the boat besides the floor. I been reading on the website now for about 5 hours on floor stringer and transom repair and i think this might be the best way to do it to get a few years out of it. I can't see the boat being worth much more than $2500 even in mint condition
 

DAN M VAGOS

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Re: 1984 Bayliner Capri rotten floor and transom

Have you seen the videos on youtube and seacast system?
 

DAN M VAGOS

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Re: 1984 Bayliner Capri rotten floor and transom

If your going to cut a slot out and remove all the wood and epoxy it like you say I cant see why that would not work. But look on friscoboaters youtube chanal he has great ideas.
 

Woodonglass

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Re: 1984 Bayliner Capri rotten floor and transom

The transom is prolly the most critical structural component of your boat. It must me firmly and structurally attached to the hull. The method you propose to replace the wood core of the transom will not accomplish this. Using Seacast, NidaBond or Arjay and following their specific instructions will. I don't think you will like the costs. Hitting the stringers with a hammer will not accurately give you a determination of their structural soundness. You should core sample them once the deck has been removed. It's your boat and you can do as you see fit, we're here to tell you what experience has taught us, works and does not.
 

jbcurt00

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Re: 1984 Bayliner Capri rotten floor and transom

You can't just look at what this boat is 'worth' post repair. Unfortunately, even 'factory' perfect & 100% accurate 'restoration' on a boat doesn't work like repaired cars, and not even close to collector cars.

You sold a 16' '86 boat for $1700, I don't know what it's condition was, but for my example it won't be relevant either. You then bought an older '84 19ft boat for $1000. That should have been the 1st sign that something was amiss, but again for this example it won't be relevant.

Ignoring other costs, you are currently 'UP' $700.

Now some very rough BALLPARK guess-ti-mate numbers for repair costs (no big ticket bells & whistles or hi-tech electronics or fishing gadgets):

Demo & put back tools: $350
PPE: $200
Plywood: $250
Resin & glass: $700
Flotation foam: $300
Gelcoat/Paint: $200
Vinyl & foam to remake interior: $300 (replicate back to back plywood seat bases)
Motor rehab: $500

These are all wild ssa guesses, so lets add a 50% fudge factor: $1400

The total to rehab this boat is $3500 {($2800 + 1400) less the $700 difference between the sale of 1st boat & buying this 1}

Once finished, you will have a virtually new 19' Bayliner that YOU know inside & out, and that will safely serve your family for many years. And once you are ready to sell it, you'll have no reservations about letting someone else (& their family) use the boat safely.

I challenge you to find a NEW 19' boat (similarly equipped) that doesn't have a down payment equal to the $3500 & then another 60+/- months of payments.

I further challenge you to find ANY other $3500 19' boat that is basically new stem to stern, which will prove extremely difficult to do, so find 1 that doesn't still have big unknowns lurking below deck, like this 1, or any number of other hidden, costly repairs.

All of that ^^^ also doesn't pay you for your labor, it's 'free'...........
(These #'s are very rough estimates & shouldn't be considered accurate, but for reference only).

When the time comes, sell it for what you can. The $3500 has been spent & is irrelevant to the boat's 'worth' to a buyer. Having an accurate (photographic too) record of what work was done, and what materials were used could help you command a higher asking price, but it's still a 30yr old boat (even if fully resto'd), and still only worth what someone else will pay.

And for me, my friends and family are worth the costs to provide a safe & sound boat that gets us back to the ramp uneventful.

Boat & boat resto safely.

Best of luck w/ your project.

BTW: How does your epoxy coated deck tie back to the hull along the deck you cut out?

You mentioned hammer thumping the stringers, were they encased in foam? I think mid-80's Bayliners were foam filled for structural purposes below decks.
 

pmjr0987

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Re: 1984 Bayliner Capri rotten floor and transom

Hi I'm working on pictures now. I know I'm not going for 100% here I have done a bayliner floor and stringers about ten years ago in my dads old boat. It was a huge pain in the *** but the end result was a masterpiece lol. but knowing how bad the boat was before we redid the floor and stringers I have a funny feeling that this boat is in better shape under it's floor but thats a whole nother topic and I'll handle the stringers at a later date for the main reason for these questions are for the transom. I'm wondering the best way to fix it to get back on the water for the best bang for buck as well as time spent I don't think this boat is worth taking the cap off just to get to the transom and replace it. If it came to that I would most likely just parted out seats motors trailer windshield electronics etc but that's last resort.

As far as the question about how the replaced would that I'm going to slide in the transom is going to attach to the stringers I'm hoping that I'm right my idea but basically I'm thinking that the epoxy applied generously around the new plywood will bond with the inner layer of fiberglass (the part you see when you look under the rear most seats) and that in turn will connect it to the stringers. The fiberglass in the boat is solid the question is the wood underneath. I have not done a core sample but I will shortly first thing I'd like to get some pictures up so you can see what I'm talking about as far as the curve in the transom and its condition on the surface
 

pmjr0987

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Re: 1984 Bayliner Capri rotten floor and transom

Is there an easy way to post pictures in the mobile site? I'm currently typing this all on my cell phone

Also to answer the question about foam, no there is a hatch in the middle where I can look in and see the stringers on both sides
 
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pmjr0987

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Re: 1984 Bayliner Capri rotten floor and transom

here is a link to the photobucket album i made for the boat.

I want to take the motor off, and replace the wood in the center most two feet of the transom. i posted pictures of the inside of transom and outside, as well as from above to show the curve. i cant see how one piece of plywood will make it from one side to the other with the two angles of the transom

http://s7.photobucket.com/user/seadooxpr0094/library/1984%20bayliner%2019%20foot
 
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Woodonglass

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Re: 1984 Bayliner Capri rotten floor and transom

You have a curved transom. It would be virtually impossible for you to install the transom in the fashion you are describing. Just not gunna happen. It would be equally difficult to "Pour" a Seacast or other composite type transom as well. IMHO you will need to cut the cap just in front of the splashwell (see pic) to gain access to the transom and do a conventional replacement or remove the cap entirely. You will then need to build the transom in layers using 4 layers of 3/8" plywood to allow it to conform to the curvature of the stern of your boat.

CuttingoffBackSplash.jpg
 
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pmjr0987

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Re: 1984 Bayliner Capri rotten floor and transom

That's just not going to happen... I'm considering this a lesson learned I'll never buy a boat that sat again. I never looked into transoms before as I thought they were thick fiberglass. I guess this is a classic case of live and learn... Who wants a $1000 project? What a shame because the rest of the boat is very clean
 

surlyjoe

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Re: 1984 Bayliner Capri rotten floor and transom

"Who wants a $1000 project?" seem to get more parting out the rotten ones than trying to sell as a project personally. I wouldn't expect to get what you paid for it thinking it was in usable condition..
 

pmjr0987

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Re: 1984 Bayliner Capri rotten floor and transom

That was more of a joke than anything lol. I told the guy I knew I I over paid on a boat with a soft floor, man if I only knew how bad a transom could be lol. I liked it because besides the floor it was in good shape and i like that era designed capri from bayliner. The guy also owned it since new and gave me a lot of service records since day one... The motor is THE best running force I've ever heard run too.

So my idea of replacing only the center few feet of transom is obviously not "correct" but would it be catastrophic? The flex comes from the bottom of the engine mount if I hardened that area with new wood and that threw an L bracket beam across on the inside why would that not help make the boat last and there few seasons before parting out? I feel like this boat has some new memories to be made in it before calling quits
 

jbcurt00

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Re: 1984 Bayliner Capri rotten floor and transom

1 of those new memories could be how you barely (or not at all) made it back to the dock/ramp/trailer.

You might get lucky. Might get more then 6 outings. Might not.

That's a heck of a lot of might's & could's.

Fiberglass boats use a system for structural integrity of the boat. Transom, stringers, deck & hull all working together to distribute the force of an OB pushing the boat thru the water. How much force does your 125hp Force motor impart thru the transom? More then I'd want flipping into the interior of the boat while under way.

Your friends & family that board this boat depend on you doing everything you can to provide a safe outing. It you aren't prepared to spend the money, time & effort necessary to provide that safety, perhaps you should consider whether you want to be a boat owner (and accept all that it entails) or someone who knows people that own boats.

Would you take 3 friends & family w/ you on a road trip KNOWING that you'd used hay bailing wire and a couple pieces of scrap metal to 'repair' the center portion only of the engine mount's connection to the cars frame? Hope not.

Again, read my previous post. It's a good start.

More then 1 iboater has had an OH CARP! moment while underway that included transom failure.

But it's your boat, your right to repair your boat as you see fit. Might consider asking anyone that might want to join you on a boat outing, if they're up for some excitement & a swim, at a minimum..... Not a funny matter to consider the other alternative endings.

Google boat accidents. Many are human error at the helm, some are unforeseen mechanical failures, not from lack of maintenance & less then diligent ownership. A good number are 'I have no idea what happened' failures that are caused by hidden dangers that could have been prevented if someone had known where to look.

You've opened pandora's box of nasty hidden damage. Now there's a public record of you asking about less then correct repairs.

I'm sure the guy at Havasu had no intention of damaging his boat or running over another boat when he set out from the ramp or dock that day. But he still ended up killing his wife & daughter 2 weeks ago when he plowed over the other boat. I only know that it happened, maybe it was human error. Could have been any number of mechanical failures. It was an accident, and if he could have prevented it, I suspect he & his surviving family all wish he had.

Your boat, but your decisions can & will effect others.

Boat & boat resto safely...
 

pmjr0987

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Re: 1984 Bayliner Capri rotten floor and transom

thanks, and im not concerned about public record on my doings. Im not doing anything wrong. Im the kind of guy who likes to think small and go up from there, not scream it all needs to come out and redo everything. outside of the box is sometimes just fine, this is public brainstorming, thanks for participating....

ill give this one more shot, perhaps some others can chime in as well.

I did a 5 minute mspaint on some pictures so bear with me.

RED-the red is where i would like to put the two epoxied 3/4" plywood bonded sheets.
YELLOW- the part of the new transom material that will be supported by the stringers as the motor pushes forward, the pressure WILL be put on the stringers. the plywood would be epoxied in all around inside the old transom carcass
GREEN-possible Steel bracket. i would put the two lower bolts of the motor mounts through the center, and support it on the outside with two bolts on each side. I was also thinking about putting it higher, but im not sure it would even be necessary.

transom1.jpgtransom2.jpgtransom3.jpg
 
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jbcurt00

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Re: 1984 Bayliner Capri rotten floor and transom

Best of luck w/ your project.

For reference, what ever happened to this boat:

Need input - 1987 17' Bowrider -> rotten floor!


I might take the lack of support for this 'repair' plan as you've described it, as an indication that it isn't a sound 'repair'.

Proceed as you see fit.
 

pmjr0987

Seaman
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Jul 11, 2010
Messages
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Re: 1984 Bayliner Capri rotten floor and transom

i sold that boat in trade for a quad that i had a blast with. that's funny you found it, looks like that boat was in better shape than the one i have now, just smaller, that was awhile ago, many many projects have gone through my hands since than.

anyway where would the weak link be? the top, or the bottom? the top, i could understand, that's where the bracket would come in handy im guessing, the bottom would be carrying torque from the motor down the wood, into the stringers going forward, what would be the issue there be?
 
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