89' Force 125 problems

dmax11

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Jun 30, 2013
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5
hello all, we recently bought a bayliner capri with a 125 in it, the motor runs, we took it out on water but it very hard to get started without flooding it and pretty much will not idle, tops out at 4k RPM.

so i've read a bunch of things on here and have alot of experience with working on car engines, new and old and have worked on carbs before but what this thing is doing is pretty baffling.

so far i have done the carb sync and checked the timing, but before doing that i noticed that the top carb esp but the bottom one as well will spew lots of gas out of the front when trying to start it with the choke on in neutral and discovered the needle and seat floats were not stopping gas from filling probably because it has the old black foam floats, today i pulled both carbs off (one at a time) and took them apart and cleaned everything with carb cleaner and bent the floats so they will definitely close the needles. put it all back together only to find out its still doing it even though the floats are working now for sure because the hand fuel pump primer gets really firm where before it would never get firm and i could hear gas squirting in the carbs. any ideas?

our driveway is not very level and because of this the motor is tilted at a downward angle tword the carbs a little bit but not so much i would think it would cause a problem, say 5-10 degree tilt at most, the next thing i was going to try was moving it to the street so it can be level and trying again.

thanks in advance and if you need pictures or even a video let me know and i'll do it, we really just want to get this thing to idle correctly before taking it out again because if the motor died on the water last time it quickly turned into a 5-10 min adventure trying to get it going again because it won't idle, its basically like if it fires a little bit stick it in gear and give it gas to keep it going.
 

Jiggz

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Oct 23, 2009
Messages
3,817
Re: 89' Force 125 problems

Your most likely cause is bent reeds. You need to be specific which carb is spewing back fuel to the front of the carb while starting and choke not engaged. Remember if you keep starting with the choke on you will flood the carbs and some fuel will actually ran back out to the front. However, if you are not choking it and it still continues to spew fuel out the front most likely it is a reed problem.

Standard cold starting procedure after priming the fuel bulb:
Position throttle control in fast idle (mostly there is center button on the throttle control to push and move the throttle forward, others pull out the throttle control and push forward)

Push down the key ignition switch to activate the choke and then turn on and start while holding down. Continue holding until engine starts or coughs. If it coughed but not start, let go of the ignition switch. Start again without pushing down (in short no choke is required anymore) and hopefully engine starts. After three tries and it still would not start, you can try choking it again. But remember the more and longer you choke the most likely the carbs will flood.

Unfortunately, the only accurate way to check the reeds is to dismount the carb and also the intake adapter and dismount the reed block. You will probably need new gaskets especially for the adapter and reed block.
 

dmax11

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Re: 89' Force 125 problems

Jiggz, thanks for the info. you were correct, we were going about starting it wrong and holding the choke it too much causing it to flood. i followed your instructions on how to start and it fired right up after it sputtered with choke on.

next question however, how long does it take to warm up and start pumping water through the engine? i don't want to fry the engine in fear the water pump is busted because after i saw no water going out the output ports on the back i switched from using "earphone" water to sticking the prop into a plastic bin full of water and i noticed two things. there appears to be exhaust coming out of both the outlet ports on the back (they also smoke after shutting the motor down) and the inlet ports by the prop are bubbling while it idles and to me that does not seem right correct?

thanks for the help!
 

scottmm73

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
261
Re: 89' Force 125 problems

A good course of action to do anytime you purchase a motor is:

1. Replace the impeller (water pump). This answers the question if the impeller is good enough. Never assume the previous owner took care of his/her motor.

2. Drain and service the lower unit. This will tell you if water is entering your lower unit. Never assume the previous owner took care of his/her motor.

If you have a good impeller, motor running on the muffs it should start pumping water within about 30 seconds.

Post pics or video of the "inlet ports by the prop bubbling".
 

dmax11

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Re: 89' Force 125 problems

thanks for the suggestions, we took it for a test run and at first it did ok, carbs seem to be working correctly now but it still has a tendency to die at idle and i've got idle set fairly high, unfortunately its still very hard to start and the main two reasons appear to be the fuel pump is not doing a good job and the starter is often sticking and not returning when it should resulting in even harder starting. we were able to cope with both problems by hand pumping fuel to keep pressure up to get it started but while trolling along at a few mph with lines in the water someone with a speed boat came by and the wake caused our engine to stall and we never could get it back started after that and ended up getting towed back to launch by a helpful guy on his jet ski that was headed back.

it seems it has multiple problems due to sitting for however long it was sitting for.

in any event its my brothers boat not mine, i'm just a better mechanic than him and thought we might be able to fix its problems on its own, i'm pretty sure i can but hes understandably fed up with it and going to take it to a shop tomorrow to have them look it over, pretty sure when he finds out how much they will want to charge we will end up doing it ourselves but so far it looks like a new impeller for the cooling system because it is pumping water, just not as much as it should from the looks and a new fuel pump and starter are definitely in order, we probably killed the starter due to the abuse it has got from us trying to get the thing started but oh well live and learn.
 

scottmm73

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
261
Re: 89' Force 125 problems

You probably just need a new diaphragm for the fuel pump and the starter probably just need cleaned up. The impeller, diaphragm, and starter are all easy to work on. Have your brother try and get a manual for the motor. It is all pretty easy work for a mechanically inclined person. Also where are you from there may be someone on here who could help. You're not in North Central PA or Western NY?
 

jerryjerry05

Supreme Mariner
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May 7, 2008
Messages
17,923
Re: 89' Force 125 problems

Very first thing to do is a compression test.
All should be about the same.Remove the plugs.
That ok? Post the results.
Muffs or tub? The tub,it needs to be a BIG tub.
The cavitation plate needs to be under water by at least 2-4 inches.
Muffs,tape them in place.I use duct tape and do it on a dry unit.
You need lots of pressure.
My units start pumping out the back within 15seconds.
Nothing wrong with the old black floats: just clean up the parts and reinstall you probably don't need new.
Most kits are crap.I use Dawn and water,then blow dry.No WD or any sprays unless it's realllly bad.
 

Jiggz

Captain
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
3,817
Re: 89' Force 125 problems

Follow Jerry's lead above. When you get the engine started either at the driveway either with muffs or tub, you need to de-carbon the engine. To do this get some seafoam in a spray bottle. Warm up engine about 3 minutes with the cowling off. Race the engine quickly in short burst using the tie bar (metal bar that connects both carbs) up to about 3500 RPM~4000 RPM while spraying seafoam directly into each carb. Do this until you sea gunks and soots come out of the exhaust. Continue on until the exhaust clears of soots. Idle should now be smoother. If not, make sure the air-fuel mixture screws and idle screw are set properly using the synch and link posts.
 

dmax11

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Jun 30, 2013
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Re: 89' Force 125 problems

Yeah i know we need to compression check it. i'm afraid #3 is got low compression because when i had the plugs out that plug was worn more than the others and looked really dry and i cranked it over without plugs and used the finger in the hole method of "testing" without a tester and #3 did not have the same pop if you would as the other 3 cylinders, i know thats not the right way to check it but i get the sinking feeling that its part of the problem and probably the main reason the motor won't stay running at any speed below 1000-900 RPM

i'll see what he wants to do today now that he has cooled off, he was pretty pissed yesterday after we got stranded multiple times, would suck to have to rebuild it but that is probably the best course of action. i'll keep you guys posted if i do end up working on it more, i bet i will lol
 

Jiggz

Captain
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
3,817
Re: 89' Force 125 problems

I rebuilt my #3 cylinder last year with a total cost of about $200 using a Wiseco piston. The piston ring got caught on one of the exhaust ports. It's a lot easier than initial thought. However, you still need to verify the compression. Buy a compression tester (screw in type) for less than $25 and it will save you a lot of money and headaches.
 

jerryjerry05

Supreme Mariner
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May 7, 2008
Messages
17,923
Re: 89' Force 125 problems

Post your profile,location?
You might be close to someone who can help?
A couple of the guys on here rebuild them,ask?
 

dmax11

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Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Messages
5
Re: 89' Force 125 problems

SF bay area, CA

my brother dropped it off yesterday, the mechanic has a lot of experience working on these engines or so he says. first thing hes going to do is check the compression, he told my brother if he does not get at least 110 psi out of all 4 then hes not going to go any further on it. i told my brother if thats that case then we take it back pull the head off and see how bad it is, if the cylinder wall is not messed up we'll measure the bore size and order an appropriate size piston rings etc and just replace it, unless of course its just bad rings or the head gasket.

probably a good thing we took it to him though, we had spun the prop when we had it out last and he said thats an easy fix and he also noticed that the previous owner had replaced the fuel line going from the pump to the bulb primer hose with an automotive one and it had cracks i never saw in it and was probably leaking a little bit, if thats the case it was probably part of the problem with the fuel delivery system.

we'll know more next week, hes booked with work until then so he's not going to have a chance to look at it more until then.
 
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