Fuel Tank Leaking?

Acipenser

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Nov 29, 2002
Messages
33
New to these forums, so this might be in the wrong one.

I just got an 86 Four Winns 190 Horizon from my dad. It has not been in the water in about 11 years. I am a boat repair novice, so I can use all the help I can get.

I washed the boat down the other day to clean it up, and then raised the bow to get it to drain well. The ski locker was not draining well, so I tried to flush it out with a hose. Seemed to work ok, but the water does not flow back to the bilge very well at all. We smelled some petro chemical smell, but thought it might be just a little oil from the bilge area draining out. Put a bucket under the drain and over a couple hours collected what looked like redish black oily gunk mixed with water. Figured that the oil tank had leaked a little or two jugs of oil had leaked a little that were next to the bilge.

Fast forward a week to yesterday. Noticed that the port side of drain area beneath the ski locker had not drained well, so I went to clean out that side. Tried with a hose and a small 1/4" diameter tubing to open its drain. Only to find out after lots of trying that it does not have a drain and is all foamed in. Is that usual?

After using a good amount of water to try to clean out the ski locker drains, I noticed again that the water was not draining to the bilge well at all. It drains from the starboard side ski locker drain smoothly. However, only a very slow trickle was making it back to the bilge. So I thought that it must be clogged in the gas tank compartment. I got out a drain snake and gently pushed it up through the drain hole (no turning of the snake, just inserting) from the bilge to the gas tank compartment. Did not run into any obstructions, but did pull out some very thick blackish greasy gunk that coated the snake line. It smelled like gas as well. Seems like there is a good amount in there based on the amount that came out on the snake line. Could the gas tank have leaked and created this thick greasy gunk? Could the gas have disolved the foam and created this thick greasy stuff?

The boat deck looks to have been fiberglassed over before I got it (carpet is gone), because there is not a gas tank compartment access panel that I have read about on threads between the seats. I have an email into Four Winns to try an get the exact location of the gas tank so that I can cut an access panel and look to see. Anyone got pictures of their mid-80s 190 Horizon that would show location of gas tank?

What was the original drain design for a 190 Horizon? Does it just have holes through the bulk heads or does it have tubing that runs from front to back? Trying to figure out how best to clean out the drains before ripping onto the deck compartment.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Bill
 

GT1000000

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
4,916
Re: Fuel Tank Leaking?

Hello and welcome to the Iboats Dry Dock, Bill...

From what you are describing, it sounds like you are going to have much larger issues with this boat than just a leaking fuel tank.
Although a leaking fuel tank is very bad, the water getting trapped in the hull is going to be a m ajor concern regaidng the structural integrity of this boat...
I am not familiar with the construction of "Four Winns" boats, but if they originally contained wood and foam in there substructure, then the foam is probably water logged and the wood is most likely rotten...

You cannot know for sure with out conducting a serious "biopsy" of the underlying structure by taking core samples...

Unfortunately, to do this, usually requires some destructive and invasive demolition of the boat.

You are going to need to remove the decking to gain access to the fuel tank and in so doing, you may be able to reach the lowest and rearmost areas of the boat to conduct the core sampling needed to determine the actual condition of the boat.

I don't want to scare you off or sound negative, but in most every case that folks on this forum have found similar problems, all of the problems I mentioned are there...at which time the owner has to make a decision to either restore the boat or not...there are NO "band-aids" that are considered safe...

Even if you decide you Do Not want to restore it, and decide to go out and buy another "old Boat"...you will most likely find the same issues...

The only exceptions to buying a ready to get wet used boat, are those that have been meticulously cared for and stored completely out of the elements for its entire life...and those are usually going to be very expensive and hard to find...the other option is to go out and buy a new, or close to new boat...

Some guys just "bite the bullet" and jump head first into a full blown restoration, which usually encompasses a new transom, stringers and decking...the greatest advantage is that, if done right, you will end up with a boat that is better built than the manufacturer ever did, for way less than the cost of a comparable, perfect condition boat.

Best of luck,
Gus
 

Woodonglass

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
25,924
Re: Fuel Tank Leaking?

There's a good possibility that the tank compartment does not have drainage to the bilge. In a 27 year old boat it's very likely corrosion has eaten a hole in the tank and fuel is seeping into the compartment. If she were my boat I would be cutting into the deck and investigating this much more thoroughly before I had a catastrophic issue. You will probably find more issues once you start digging.:blue:
 

Acipenser

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Nov 29, 2002
Messages
33
Re: Fuel Tank Leaking?

I will be calling Four Winns today to get some more specific information on the location and drainage of the fuel tank compartment.

I am hoping that there wont be much rotten wood. The boat has been kept in a car port and dry during the storage period. So hopefully won't be too bad. I don't feel any soft spots, but I guess I will know a lot more when I open up the fuel compartment.

Assuming I am going to need to cut through the deck to get to the fuel compartment. A little worried about starting a fire or explosion. What would you recommend using to make the cut?
 

Yacht Dr.

Vice Admiral
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
5,581
Re: Fuel Tank Leaking?

Skill saw cut to Depth ? .. or a Fien saw.

YD.
 

snowbrd84

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
215
Re: Fuel Tank Leaking?

Skill saw cut to Depth ? .. or a Fien saw.

YD.

What about using a red dye in the tank to see if it comes out through the bilge? They have red gas dye for "off road" gas...
 

Acipenser

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Nov 29, 2002
Messages
33
Re: Fuel Tank Leaking?

Called Four Winns. They do not have any drawings back to 1986 so could not get exact location of tank. I was told it was between the seats and between the ski locker and the bilge. So based on that and pictures from other threads I think that I have a good idea on where to start cutting. I figure I might as well cut open a new access area anyway. Probably will start this weekend.

Semi-good news is that they did confirm that the ski locker is supposed to drain through the fuel tank compartment to the bilge. It goes under the fuel tank.
 

Yacht Dr.

Vice Admiral
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
5,581
Re: Fuel Tank Leaking?

Dont you have some kind of access pie for the fuel tank sending unit ? That should give you some idea.

YD.
 

Woodonglass

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
25,924
Re: Fuel Tank Leaking?

Your fuel tank is located immediately behind the rear bulkhead of the ski locker and in front of the bulkhead just in front of the motor. Not sure how wide it is. You should be able to determine the thickness of your deck material in the ski locker area and set the circular saw dept for 1/16" shy of that. You will also be able to determine the location of the stringers from the ski locker and the Motor well. I'd cut over the center of the stringers and across the center of the bulkheads to gain access to the tank. I'ts normally centered between the stringers. Here's a pic of an 87 Four Winns that member RickRyder did and you can see where his was located...
img2011i.jpg
 

Acipenser

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Nov 29, 2002
Messages
33
Re: Fuel Tank Leaking?

Well since we are on the topic of rotten wood....

I have been sidetracked from the boat for awhile with some other projects. I have found termites damage in my car port. Looks like they are all dead as I did not find any evidence of live activity. But it will take awhile to get this damage fixed and repaired, so I will not be working on the boat for a few more weeks. I will report back when I find out more about the boat.

Thanks.
 

jjacobs007

Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
1,257
Re: Fuel Tank Leaking?

I have a 85 four winns ,horizon and was wondering about my gas tank too,it holds 27gal and my floor is also been covered over with wood,fixing it up right now.
 
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