Need advice...

PSiedTSi

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
36
Hey guys,

I posted this in the Four Winns forum, but that doesn't see much traffic. I just heard back from the service shop that my '88 Four Winns Freedom 160/Johnson 120 supposedly needs 3 pistons. I haven't really talked to them about it, I didn't get the call, just heard 2nd hand. They want $2500 to do a rebuild or they can sell me something else for that price or more. Seems steep to me, but I seriously do not have the time or patience for ANOTHER project, plus it's June 17th and I can already see the first snow fall coming over the horizon. Anyway, I paid about $2700 for the boat 11-12 years ago from the original owner. It's in good shape for the most part(not perfect, we used it), a few ticky-tack things are wrong with it(speedo, depth finder, swim ladder falling off and a small round hole in the ski locker plywood from a mouse one season), but it just got "new" matching seats for the captains chairs(fold down ones) from another 160 and a new USB stereo. Floor is solid and the last time I checked the transom is solid as well.

What should I do? I recently just started getting more involved in the wake sports, so I would really like a bigger/more powerful boat anyway. The motor ran *ok* at the end of the season even tho it "needs" 3 pistons(compression was decent last year). Do I rebuild to sell or just sell it as is? I realize I'm probably going to struggle to get 1-1.5k for it as is, am I right? My next thought was to find a used motor for cheap, but there is nothing around that vintage for a good deal. I was able to find a couple mid-late 90s OMCs in the $1500 range with ****ty boats attached, but I'm not sure if it's worth dealing with a boat I want to throw away. The next, I was able to find a 1980 Johnson 175 semi-locally(about 3.5 hours away) for about $800. Could I even install that on my boat? The plate says "120hp max" but I know that's recommendation not an enforceable rule, depening on state. I pretty much just want to sell it and get the most money to put towards something better, but hassle sucks. Whats your take? I believe in karma very strongly, so I'm not about to not fix the boat and sell it "in water ready" condition to some unsuspecting buyer.

tl;dr 120 johnson needs 3 pistons supposedly, want bigger boat anyway, fix motor for $2500, buy used 1980 175 Johnson or sell as-is.

Thanks for the help!
 

calvinator

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
286
Re: Need advice...

If you don't want a project -- sell it and move on. You probably got your orig $2700 enjoyment out of it.

If you still like the boat and fits your needs, a DIY repower (err project) can be done for $1000-$1500. However, my recent experience -- I was repowering my pontoon from 60HP to 150HP. It was hard to find a larger HP engine that wasn't junk. Seemed most of those larger HP engines were run to death.
 

PSiedTSi

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
36
Re: Need advice...

I should add the 175 has been rebuilt and supposedly only 5 hours on it. I know the boat is probably worth a lot more with a running motor, that's sort of my dilemma, idk haha.
 

Bifflefan

Commander
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
2,933
Re: Need advice...

Sounds like your asking permission to buy a new boat. Okay, go ahead. LOL

If you can afford a new one, and you get permission from the wife, then get one. You will be happier for it. I know I am.
 

rogerwa

Commander
Joined
Nov 29, 2000
Messages
2,339
Re: Need advice...

Check your pm, I sent some information about a possible option for you.
 

Triangleboater

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
207
Re: Need advice...

No one seemed to mention putting a 175 on a boat thats rated for 120 is a bad idea....all that torque can really put unwanted stress on the transom and the whole boat for that matter. Either get more opionions on the engine you have now or replace it with the recommended hp if you are going to keep the current boat.
 

NYBo

Admiral
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
7,107
Re: Need advice...

You said compression was "decent" last year. How decent? Ask the shop how they came to the conclusion the motor needs 3 pistons. You may just need to de-carb the motor.
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
2,598
Re: Need advice...

No way should you put a 175 on that boat !!! :facepalm: . That's a big jump in power over what it's rated for, plus you're talking about a big weight increase as well. That would be a dangerous combination. (Your hearing this from a lifelong gear-head who loves to go fast and might possibly in the past have had an over-powered boat.)

Another thing that stands out to me is that you said the swim ladder is falling off. That screams 'transom rot' to someone who's been there and done that. If it were my boat I'd investigate the transom further by drilling some holes halfway through it from the inside to check the condition of the wood. If it looks good and dry then patch the holes with something like marine-tex epoxy filler, then deal with your engine problem. If the transom is wet or rotted then you need to decide if you want a project or not.
 

PSiedTSi

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
36
Re: Need advice...

No one seemed to mention putting a 175 on a boat thats rated for 120 is a bad idea....all that torque can really put unwanted stress on the transom and the whole boat for that matter. Either get more opionions on the engine you have now or replace it with the recommended hp if you are going to keep the current boat.

Obviously, that's my gut instinct. However, I know sometimes things are set up way more cautious than they really need to be, which is why I am asking here - real life experience. I know I'm not the only one that has asked or has experience actually doing this kind of repower. I am NOT planning on keeping it, just want to get the most money with least hassle right now. If that means getting a similar motor, fine. If that meant getting the 175 then I'd get that, or just sell it "motorless".

You said compression was "decent" last year. How decent? Ask the shop how they came to the conclusion the motor needs 3 pistons. You may just need to de-carb the motor.

I believe all numbers were above 120, except for one that was at 105, but I could be wrong. I used it a few times after that, so it's possible more damage has occurred since I checked it. I had a weird issue with it last year but it seemed to pretty much iron itself out, besides a little trouble idling(which has never been its strong suit). I noticed I lost maybe 2-3mph on the GPS(42-43 to 39-40) but I just assumed a hard summer probably took some life out of it.

I'm planning on calling them in a few minutes here. All I said when I dropped it off was that it was having a little issue idling at times, thinking it was the carbs because I'm not sure they've EVER been done in the 12 years I've owned it - unless that's the regular summerizing process. This place knows my boat well, it's pretty much the only place I've taken it, but I also think they could be trying to add a cheap boat to their used selection knowing the history of it.

No way should you put a 175 on that boat !!! :facepalm: . That's a big jump in power over what it's rated for, plus you're talking about a big weight increase as well. That would be a dangerous combination. (Your hearing this from a lifelong gear-head who loves to go fast and might possibly in the past have had an over-powered boat.)

Another thing that stands out to me is that you said the swim ladder is falling off. That screams 'transom rot' to someone who's been there and done that. If it were my boat I'd investigate the transom further by drilling some holes halfway through it from the inside to check the condition of the wood. If it looks good and dry then patch the holes with something like marine-tex epoxy filler, then deal with your engine problem. If the transom is wet or rotted then you need to decide if you want a project or not.

It's a half ladder and the screws just backed out from overly large people using it and then one last tug just pulled the threads out, hell they fell out of the still solid teak deck too. Nothing feels or looks rotted to me when looking in the battery area, but I was planning on doing something with epoxy in the holes to prevent further issues.
 

PSiedTSi

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
36
Re: Need advice...

Talked to the shop, they looked at it with a bore scope and its got 3 scored pistons. They said it rattles really badly too, that's new to me.
 

PSiedTSi

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
36
Re: Need advice...

Ended up buying an Evinrude 120 big bore from the shop for $2k installed. Seemed like a good enough deal to get me back on the water and make the boat worth something again.
 
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