Issue setting dwell/dwell meter issue

Nivekt · Jun 14, 2013

My dwell meter wont give me a dwell readout when cranking the engine with my remote starter. I have all the leads removed from the - side of the coil. The green from the dwell meter is hooked up to the - and I have the black/ground lead of the dwell meter clipped on to my alternator. I do have the ignition turned to on and I can get an volt reading, just no dwell when turning her over. I get a dwell reading just fine when the engine is running with everything hooked up. Comes in at 23 when I need it at 30. I am using the Actron CP7506 analog meter.

The Tune up sticky says to try the following if Im having this issue:

"If your analog meter needle is pegged up or down, there is a short to ground in the points or condenser wire somewhere or your ignition switch is not turned on. Digital meters will give a zero reading or someway to tell you there is no voltage"

I do have my ignition switch on and dont see a short to ground. Here are some close up pictures of the distributor. Can anyone see anything wrong here?

Thank you for your help.

Levinz11 · Jun 14, 2013

Re: Issue setting dwell/dwell meter issue

I don't have a remote starter or a helper usually so I do it the hard way. Meter power leads to battery + and -. Green wire to coil. Start her up and see where I'm at. If I'm off, I pop off the dizzy cap and make an adjustment. Pop the cap back on and start her up again.

My dizzy has a little play so I can never get it quite high enough at idle. As the RPM's increase it raises the dwell into the range OMC recommends.

Boomyal · Jun 14, 2013

Re: Issue setting dwell/dwell meter issue

Nivekt said:
.......Can anyone see anything wrong here?

Yeah! There are points in there! Install a Pertronix II ignitor and toss that dwell meter! :joyous:

Idlespeedonly · Jun 14, 2013

Re: Issue setting dwell/dwell meter issue

I have thought about doing the same. I just dont want to mess with the esa.

Nivekt · Jun 14, 2013

Re: Issue setting dwell/dwell meter issue

Boomyal said:
Yeah! There are points in there! Install a Pertronix II ignitor and toss that dwell meter! :joyous:

I would like to, but Ive already dumped enough money into this thing with the recent engine replacement. Also, for some reason my boat has the full ESA system even though it is a hydromechanical shift. Cant figure out why or if the ESA components are actually doing anything beneficial since they are hooked up. Then, if I do go with a Pertronix, do I actually need to do anything about my ESA? So yeah, all of these issues/questions along with the financial piece are keeping me from going electronic.

Nivekt · Jun 14, 2013

Re: Issue setting dwell/dwell meter issue

Levinz11 said:
I don't have a remote starter or a helper usually so I do it the hard way. Meter power leads to battery + and -. Green wire to coil. Start her up and see where I'm at. If I'm off, I pop off the dizzy cap and make an adjustment. Pop the cap back on and start her up again.

My dizzy has a little play so I can never get it quite high enough at idle. As the RPM's increase it raises the dwell into the range OMC recommends.

If this forum post doesnt find me an answer Ill go with your way. The initial point gap the manual calls for is .018 but obviously that isnt getting me there as far as dwell. Ill try going down to .017 and see what kind of a change that makes then go from there.

Maclin · Jun 14, 2013

Re: Issue setting dwell/dwell meter issue

You have to have the coil minus terminal hooked up to the distributor/points to read dwell

The points opening and closing events determine dwell, your meter can't measure the points events if they are not in the circuit.

Nivekt · Jun 14, 2013

Re: Issue setting dwell/dwell meter issue

Maclin said:
You have to have the coil minus terminal hooked up to the distributor/points to read dwell The points opening and closing events determine dwell, your meter can't measure the points events if they are not in the circuit.

Wont that cause the engine to start when I crank it over? I want to disable the ignition from starting while Im cranking it over and testing the dwell. Is there another way to disable the ignition?

gm280 · Jun 14, 2013

Re: Issue setting dwell/dwell meter issue

Nivekt said:
If this forum post doesnt find me an answer Ill go with your way. The initial point gap the manual calls for is .018 but obviously that isnt getting me there as far as dwell. Ill try going down to .017 and see what kind of a change that makes then go from there.

If you just installed new points, I would leave the setting at .018" AND live with the 23 dwell reading as well, because as the rubbing block wears in, your dwell time will increase... Remember that dwell time is the time the points are closed. So setting the points at .017" will certainly get closer as they wear in which will increase the dwell reading too. Getting a perfect dwell reading on new points will not stay there long. SO go by the feeler gauge for initial setting and it will all work out...

Levinz11 · Jun 14, 2013

Re: Issue setting dwell/dwell meter issue

Nivekt said:
Wont that cause the engine to start when I crank it over? I want to disable the ignition from starting while Im cranking it over and testing the dwell. Is there another way to disable the ignition?

Remove the center coil wire and ground it.

Nivekt · Jun 14, 2013

Re: Issue setting dwell/dwell meter issue

Thanks for your help everyone. I set the gap at .017 and got the dwell to 28 and left it there. I will continue to monitor the dwell as I use the boat during the season to see how much it changes as the points wear. I was amazed at how much it threw off my timing so I had to set that back to 10 degrees BTDC. She is purring better than ever now.

Boomyal · Jun 14, 2013

Re: Issue setting dwell/dwell meter issue

Nivekt, it would be totally pointless to have a functioning ESA on your hydro-mechanical. Have you followed any wiring to see if you have the little black box and if anything is hooked into the engine? I am not sure where the ESA's tied into the ignition.

In fact if you really do have a full mechanical shift converter I am not sure how that would even work as the Full Mech shifts opposite the hydro Mech and the cable, from the outdrive, is totally different.

Were you the one who posted about a mismatch issue, just a while ago?...and ended up cutting the cable ends? Even if you were the one, I really doubt that the ESA hardware is hooked up, in which case, the Pertronix would be your best pal (budget not withstanding, of course)

Nivekt · Jun 14, 2013

Re: Issue setting dwell/dwell meter issue

Boomyal said:
Nivekt, it would be totally pointless to have a functioning ESA on your hydro-mechanical. Have you followed any wiring to see if you have the little black box and if anything is hooked into the engine? I am not sure where the ESA's tied into the ignition.

In fact if you really do have a full mechanical shift converter I am not sure how that would even work as the Full Mech shifts opposite the hydro Mech and the cable, from the outdrive, is totally different.

Were you the one who posted about a mismatch issue, just a while ago?...and ended up cutting the cable ends? Even if you were the one, I really doubt that the ESA hardware is hooked up, in which case, the Pertronix would be your best pal (budget not withstanding, of course)

The wires from the two switches on the shift converter housing tie into the black box and then there is a lead from the box that goes to the - of the coil. See pictures.

I suppose its not hurting anything keeping them hooked up but Im not even sure how I would remove it all from the wiring harness. I would need to see how its all tied in together. I would prefer to keep it there though in case I ever need to swap in my full mechanical lower spare that I have. I wonder if I will have any issues with the system in place should I switch over to Pertronix? I guess there is only one way to find out...

Oh, and It was not me who posted about a mismatch issue. I would like to read that thread though if you have a link. Thanks.

Silvertip · Jun 14, 2013

Re: Issue setting dwell/dwell meter issue

Yes -- changing dwell affects timing, but changing timing does not change dwell. That's why you always set dwell first and then check and adjust timing. Ponder that whilst you are perched in the bathroom with nothing else to think about.

Nivekt · Jun 14, 2013

Re: Issue setting dwell/dwell meter issue

Silvertip said:
Yes -- changing dwell affects timing, but changing timing does not change dwell. That's why you always set dwell first and then check and adjust timing. Ponder that whilst you are perched in the bathroom with nothing else to think about.

I see that now and remember reading about that in the sticky. I was just amazed at how much it changed the timing. I plan to take a lake test of my new engine either tomorrow or next weekend.

Boomyal · Jun 14, 2013

Re: Issue setting dwell/dwell meter issue

Here is the post on the mismatched shift converter. I went a and re-read it. The poster had the opposite situation that you have. He had a Hydro-Mech shift converter with a full mech outdrive and cable. Before the end of the post, where this mismatch came to light, he went and cut his shift cable ends to deal with the slop of his cables in the converter. Ouch!

http://forums.iboats.com/omc-i-o-in...-time-water-boat-couple-questions-604726.html

I'd still be curious how your cables are routed considering that the hydro-mech drive shifts opposite the full mechanical drive. That means that the cables have to be jury rigged in your converter box that was made to accept longer cable ends that move in the opposite direction.

Nivekt · Jun 14, 2013

Re: Issue setting dwell/dwell meter issue

Boomyal said:
Here is the post on the mismatched shift converter. I went a and re-read it. The poster had the opposite situation that you have. He had a Hydro-Mech shift converter with a full mech outdrive and cable. Before the end of the post, where this mismatch came to light, he went and cut his shift cable ends to deal with the slop of his cables in the converter. Ouch!

http://forums.iboats.com/omc-i-o-in...-time-water-boat-couple-questions-604726.html

I'd still be curious how your cables are routed considering that the hydro-mech drive shifts opposite the full mechanical drive. That means that the cables have to be jury rigged in your converter box that was made to accept longer cable ends that move in the opposite direction.

Thanks for the link. I route my cables in my shift converter exactly how the OEM manual for my hydro-mech states to and I have zero shifting problems. The tensioner draws up the cable slack just fine after putting the pucks in the correct slots and making sure the cables arent crossed within the housing. I wonder if I have a hydro-mech shift converter box with the ESA/full-mech lever arm and insert assembly?

Boomyal · Jun 15, 2013

Re: Issue setting dwell/dwell meter issue

Nivekt said:
...... I wonder if I have a hydro-mech shift converter box with the ESA/full-mech lever arm and insert assembly?

I think that you have stumbled on to something here. A morphidite, perhaps? Upon closer examination of your picture, what stands out is that the SC box is white. Every Full Mechanical SC box that I have seen is silver. Your reverse position is in the right direction for a Hydro-mech. A Full Mech converter box MAY shift in the opposite direction as forward and reverse are opposite between the two drives.

I think you can test whether you ESA is working by manually depressing the switch(s) while the engine idling. Without having the box in hand, I am not sure which one to press but you should be able to figure it out. If the engine does not stumble, then your ESA is not active and you can install the Pertronix without having to use the little 'diode' fix. If you go to Pertronix, be sure to get the II variety and bypass any voltage reducer for it's power source. I strongly recommend to get the Flame Thrower Coil to go with it. You'll never look back. Your engine with start quicker and run smoother, sooner.

Scott Danforth · Jun 15, 2013

Re: Issue setting dwell/dwell meter issue

Someone mixed and matched parts.

Issue setting dwell/dwell meter issue

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