tilt trim problem on 1975 Johnson outboard 135 hp

E

eisenpeter

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Jun 13, 2013
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Hi,
I have a 1975 Johnson single lever command controller which controls my 1975 Johnson outboard mtr. I recently replaced the starter solenoid and may have connected wires in wrong place. When I turn the key ON:blue: the motor turns over OK.
The down button brought the motor down but i can't get the up button to work. I cleaned the contacts on the buttons and checked for good electrical connection at the controller handle. Put it back together and still no up movement but down still responds.
The up control button has a black and white wire connected to it while the down button has a black and red wire.
Oh...one other thing. The down button works without the key being turned on. Is that normal ????
Any help/suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Peter
 
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Mercman2008

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Re: tilt trim problem on 1975 Johnson outboard 135 hp

Check the relays swap them around and see if the problem reverses.

If I was doing it I would check switch continuity with my meter at the switch to make sure the switch is good them would switch the relays around and see if it reversed teh problem if no difference them look to the wiring
 
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emdsapmgr

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Re: tilt trim problem on 1975 Johnson outboard 135 hp

Not sure if you are discussing the solenoid for the starter or the solenoid for the power trim. This trim works through it's own remote relay, typically mounted under the rear splashwell. The trim down works through the switch in the handle only. The up movement is different. The switch in the control box handle feeds the power trim solenoid. The trim system is wired direct to the battery, so it will work w/o the engine on. There is a separate fuse for the power trim. There is a wiring diagram in the factory service manual for this system: see this website: outboardbooks.com Possible it is also found in one of the wiring diagrams in the first thread on this page.
 
Joe Reeves

Joe Reeves

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Re: tilt trim problem on 1975 Johnson outboard 135 hp

The starter solenoid has nothing to do with the PTT unit. The PTT has its own solenoid as explained in the diagram below. The diagram is actually for the Power tilt only unit assembly but the wiring connections are the same.

The 12v power to the PTT switch can be run directly from the battery or from the "B" terminal of the ignition switch if you want voltage available with the key off. If you want voltage to the PTT switch ONLY when the key is ON, the voltage wire should be connected to the "A" terminal of the ignition switch.

You can test the electric motor itself by simply running a small jumper wire (+) voltage directly to the Blue or Green wire and another jumper (-) ground wire to the Black ground wire at the PTT motor.

P-TILTWIRING.jpg
 
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eisenpeter

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Re: tilt trim problem on 1975 Johnson outboard 135 hp

Joe Reeves said:
The starter solenoid has nothing to do with the PTT unit. The PTT has its own solenoid as explained in the diagram below. The diagram is actually for the Power tilt only unit assembly but the wiring connections are the same.

The 12v power to the PTT switch can be run directly from the battery or from the "B" terminal of the ignition switch if you want voltage available with the key off. If you want voltage to the PTT switch ONLY when the key is ON, the voltage wire should be connected to the "A" terminal of the ignition switch.

You can test the electric motor itself by simply running a small jumper wire (+) voltage directly to the Blue or Green wire and another jumper (-) ground wire to the Black ground wire at the PTT motor.

P-TILTWIRING.jpg
Click to expand...

Thank you all for the information. Tremendous help. The diagram of the wiring is very helpfull. Will give all suggestions a try.
Peter
 
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eisenpeter

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Re: tilt trim problem on 1975 Johnson outboard 135 hp

Mercman2008 said:
Check the relays swap them around and see if the problem reverses.

If I was doing it I would check switch continuity with my meter at the switch to make sure the switch is good them would switch the relays around and see if it reversed teh problem if no difference them look to the wiring
Click to expand...

:joyous::joyous::joyous::joyous:thank you so much for the answers to my question. very informative and helpful.
Now where can I find the relays ???? in the engine compartment ????
Peter
 
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eisenpeter

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Re: tilt trim problem on 1975 Johnson outboard 135 hp

Joe Reeves said:
The starter solenoid has nothing to do with the PTT unit. The PTT has its own solenoid as explained in the diagram below. The diagram is actually for the Power tilt only unit assembly but the wiring connections are the same.

The 12v power to the PTT switch can be run directly from the battery or from the "B" terminal of the ignition switch if you want voltage available with the key off. If you want voltage to the PTT switch ONLY when the key is ON, the voltage wire should be connected to the "A" terminal of the ignition switch.

You can test the electric motor itself by simply running a small jumper wire (+) voltage directly to the Blue or Green wire and another jumper (-) ground wire to the Black ground wire at the PTT motor.

P-TILTWIRING.jpg
Click to expand...

Hi Joe,
Thank you very much for the reply to my question. The repsonses I have received are very informative.
I will get back to all when I try your suggestions.
Best Regards,
Peter
 
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eisenpeter

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Re: tilt trim problem on 1975 Johnson outboard 135 hp

Mercman2008 said:
Check the relays swap them around and see if the problem reverses.

If I was doing it I would check switch continuity with my meter at the switch to make sure the switch is good them would switch the relays around and see if it reversed teh problem if no difference them look to the wiring
Click to expand...

Hi Mercman,
:joyous::):joyous:Excellent.....simple and direct. Very much appreciate all the input to my question. Ahhhh...one more. Where do I find the relays ??????
Best Regards,
Peter
 
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emdsapmgr

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Re: tilt trim problem on 1975 Johnson outboard 135 hp

The relays are not used on this model. OMC put them on trim systems starting mid-year 1981.
 
64osby

64osby

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Re: tilt trim problem on 1975 Johnson outboard 135 hp

If this is an external cylinder PTT, then the up side will have a relay solenoid. Most likely mounted under the spashwell.
 
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eisenpeter

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Re: tilt trim problem on 1975 Johnson outboard 135 hp

Looked everywhere for a relay solenoid. Couldn't find one anywhere. there is one wire that troubles me. It is a broken connection on the left shock absorber looking at rear of boat. I wonder if that black wire has something to do with ground ?????????
 
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eisenpeter

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Re: tilt trim problem on 1975 Johnson outboard 135 hp

Hi Joe, The diagram is very helpful. The problem is there is no solenoid to be found. Why would there be a black wire connection on the leftside of my trim tilt mount. It appears this wire has broken off of the plunger tube. Could that be a ground wire ??? When I looked at the tilt/trim parts diagram it showed a sensor of some kind attached to the tube. Any ideas ?????
Thank you,
Peter
 
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emdsapmgr

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Re: tilt trim problem on 1975 Johnson outboard 135 hp

There is a factory wire on the left (port) trim cylinder. This connects to the trim gauge on the dash and indicates relative position of the tilt cylinder relative to up/down.
 
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emdsapmgr

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Re: tilt trim problem on 1975 Johnson outboard 135 hp

You may find the factory exploded parts diagram helpful to explain the entire trim system on your engine. Why not check out the factory parts website: epc.brp.com The 1975 trim parts are all shown for this engine, along with part numbers.
 
Joe Reeves

Joe Reeves

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Re: tilt trim problem on 1975 Johnson outboard 135 hp

eisenpeter said:
Hi Joe, The diagram is very helpful. The problem is there is no solenoid to be found. Why would there be a black wire connection on the leftside of my trim tilt mount. It appears this wire has broken off of the plunger tube. Could that be a ground wire ??? When I looked at the tilt/trim parts diagram it showed a sensor of some kind attached to the tube. Any ideas ?????
Thank you,Peter
Click to expand...

Black wire on left side is for a trim gauge. Those things never seem to work. Ignore it.

That unit without a solenoid will not function. The current in the up mode is so hot that without the solenoid, wires would melt!
 
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eisenpeter

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Re: tilt trim problem on 1975 Johnson outboard 135 hp

emdsapmgr said:
Not sure if you are discussing the solenoid for the starter or the solenoid for the power trim. This trim works through it's own remote relay, typically mounted under the rear splashwell. The trim down works through the switch in the handle only. The up movement is different. The switch in the control box handle feeds the power trim solenoid. The trim system is wired direct to the battery, so it will work w/o the engine on. There is a separate fuse for the power trim. There is a wiring diagram in the factory service manual for this system: see this website: outboardbooks.com Possible it is also found in one of the wiring diagrams in the first thread on this page.
Click to expand...

Hi,
Thank you for the info. I found the solenoid as you said. Did not realize that the tilt/trim had its own solenoid. I presumed that it was the motor starter solenoid.
Another contributor sent a diagram of the wiring which is helping a lot. I did replace the solenoid with a new one from an auto parts store. Thought it would work but when I checked marineengine.com they only show solenoids with 3 connections not 4. Wouldn't think that would make any difference. I haven't found the separate fuse connection for the tilt/trim but assumed that if it goes down then it must also work for up. I will look up outboardbooks.com.
Haven't had a chance to work on the problem but will let you know if i get it to work.
Thanks again for your suggestions. Very much appreciated.
Best Regards,
Peter
 
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eisenpeter

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Re: tilt trim problem on 1975 Johnson outboard 135 hp

Hi Joe,
I was thinking like a car mechanic instead of a boat engine mechanic. duuhhhh !!!!
I found the solenoid under the splash well as another contributor said. Thought that was for the motor.
Anyway.....The old solenoid broke and I replaced it with a new 12 volt solenoid from an auto parts store. I might have missed something when I put the wires from old to new. I couldn't find a fuse connection anywhere, should there be one for the up position ????
Your diagram of the wiring looks great and I will follow the wire connections and see if I've got it correct.
You and the other contributors have been a tremendous help and I really appreciate you and the others taking the time to help me.
Will let you know when i get it to work.
Peter
 
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eisenpeter

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Re: tilt trim problem on 1975 Johnson outboard 135 hp

Hi Joe,
You know your stuff. That makes sense. Ignore it I will. Thank you, Peter
 
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eisenpeter

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Re: tilt trim problem on 1975 Johnson outboard 135 hp

Yup...no relays but does have a solenoid. Thank you, Peter
 
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