Hello all - Anyone ever repair/replace a wood transom on an aluminum hull? This is just a preliminary inquiry before I start figgern' out my winter projects.I have a '76 18' set up for an outboard. There is a gap now of about 1/2" between the wood transom & the aluminum transomwell/seat assembly. A couple of rivets are sheared.My biggest worry is that I'll have to pull the entire sheet metal transom well/seat assembly to do this - there's a whole lotta screws that just don't seem accessible without doing that.Also (as I'm a DIY-type), What is recommended in terms of replacement material? Do I laminate my own marine ply? Is there a source for 2-inch thick ply?What else should I be looking at?This is my first boat & I'm still trying to learn as much as I can.thanks,Matt M
Yes I have. Done it many times, as a matter of fact. Aluminums are MUCH easier than fiberglass.You'll have to remove bolts, rivets, etc. Once that's done, it's a piece of cake.Here's a TIP, DO NOT remove the outside. Work from the inside out. AT ALL COSTS, leave the outside shell alone. Lot's of drilling, etc. but all easily reassembled.Once you get to the wood core, report back and I'll tell you how to make a new core.
Just my $.02 worth from the part time carpenter in the group. Most people just laminate up 1/2 or 3/4 plywood into the needed thickness for their transom. If you really want 2" thick laminate, depending on the needed height, there are laminated beams for houses that are called LVL's and they are made in thickness from about 1 1/2 inch to over 3 inches. Heights are 12 to 20" only though.LVL's are not cheap, they're sold by the foot, and I do not know exactly what glue is used, one site called it "weatherproof" glue so if you seal it with resin before you install, it should hold up.I don't know if LVL's are heavier per square foot than plywood, I do know that when I am working with it, its VERY heavy, but anything 16 feet long and 2 inches by 12 inches is going to be HEAVY.I also had someone at the lumberyard ask me why I wasn't looking at this recycled wood / plastic decking, Trexx, and glue that up.. It certainly wouldn't rot, but man is that stuff heavy..Right now for my fiberglass boat, to get all of the plywood in fitted into the transom, I am looking at 3 layers of 1/2 ply that are all cut in different ways and places, so I can get them into place, then all laminted and screwed together (w/stainless Steel screws) to form the final wood core of my transom.Good luck, take lots of pictures
Thanks!Now for a few more questions:DJ - When you say "do not remove the outside", are you referring to the aluminum surround that is riveted into the wales & hull and acts as a "picture frame" for the wood? I guess that I will have to pull the transomwell/seating assembly, otherwise I'll never get to all those screws!sdunt - right now my boat's 65 miles away, I was just guestimating the 2" thickness. If I laminate up myself, what is the recommended ply type & glue type? I've seen stuff billed as "marine ply" delaminate after a weekend in the rain (got a refund on that sheet! "Gee - don't know how that got mixed in. . "). Adhesives? I've become fond of Gorilla Glue, but is that suitable for this purpose?Thanks again,Matt
kilroy,I think we're talking about the same thing.I am referring to the outside aluminum skin that is double riveted to the bottom and sides of the hull.You will have to remove the "cap" on top. The wavewell and any other aluminum inner pieces.
There is also considerable discussion about plywood types. It seemed that since marine grade ply is not available in some areas, people are using exterior grade A/C or better plywood. I think marine and exterior use the same type of glue, but marine is supposed to be void free.As for laminating glue, Gorilla would work well, it is more of an exterior product than yellow carpenters glue, Aspheltic resin glue. The glue question does not come up real often because people are generally working to seal their plywood in Epoxy or polyester resin so that it is water proof on its own. And they like me have to laminte it up in place to get the wood to fit with out separating the deck, etc.If you can laminate up your plywood to the full thickness and get it into place as one piece you should probably use gorilla glue and then coat the entire assembly in 2 to 3 coats of epoxy to seal it.Where many transoms fail is all of the bolt and screw holes in them that allow water in and past any epoxy seal.. One Idea I picked up is to use tubing to seal the hole. My appologies to the original poster that I copied this off of:"go to good ACE/TRUE VALUE hardware or hobby shop that sells K & S tubing..buy a tubing ID size that is two to three sizes bigger than your bolts.. but is still a common bit size on the OD..bore holes thru the transom and install the tube all the way thru the transom, coat the outside of the tube with epoxy before you install the tube, you want to cement it in place and seal it and the wood you just punched a hole in.install bolts and shoot caulk/silcone in tube around space of bolt..the tube isolates/seals/protects from water infusion and isolates it from EVER soakin' in the side wall of transom. Kind of like making a drain plug hole but for the motor mounts or any other holes in the transom."
DJ - I had to think about what you were saying again, & now it makes sense. If the wood magically disappeared right now, there would still be an aluminum skin across the back of the boat (getting crushed by the outboard ), tight? I spent a lot of time under the splashwell playing with wiring & the bilge pump, and that side is what I've been visualizing - not the outside. From the inside the wood does not completely make up the transom - there is aluminum from approximately the waterline to the bottom, and in from the wales approx 4-6 inches.I will try to get pix this weeken & post them on my site, so that I can make sure I know what I'm talking about!And that sort of leads into something sdunt mentioned...WHile at Lk Geo., I noticed that every morning I had to pump out about 3 gallons of water, and after every run as well.At one time there was either a fishfinder, or speedometer, or both, because there are a couple of screwholes below the waterline in the transom. If they were never sealed properly, that would account for the seepage, I think. Now what I need to do is find if they were in the part that went into the woor, or were below the wood...Another to-do this weekend!I like the idea of using the tubing almost like a bushing to maintain the watertight integrity of the wood - I will DEFINITELY use that advice! I'm wondering if putting a slight flare on the water-side of the tubing might also help promote a good seal?Also - wouldn't you want the ID of the tubing to be very close to the size of the fastener?I can understand not wanting an interference fit, because that would likely dislodge the tubing when installing the fastener but I think that you would want to minimize any sloppy fit and keep things from shifting around...just a thought...Thanks again,Matt
DJ - I had to think about what you were saying again, & now it makes sense. If the wood magically disappeared right now, there would still be an aluminum skin across the back of the boat (getting crushed by the outboard ), tight? I spent a lot of time under the splashwell playing with wiring & the bilge pump, and that side is what I've been visualizing - not the outside. From the inside the wood does not completely make up the transom - there is aluminum from approximately the waterline to the bottom, and in from the wales approx 4-6 inches.
Kilroy,BINGO!Your transom is rotten. There are no quick fixes. The components mounted outside cannot be sealed with a flexing transom.You are correct. The wood rarely extends to the floor, on an aluminum boat.Here's another tip, that wood tray, that the wood is laying in, is a water trap. When you rebuild the transom. Drill holes in the bottom of it. That way water doesn't stand there.
So the next questions:After getting everything out of the way & removing the old wood, and cleaning it up, is there any prep that should be done to the now exposed aluminum?Should the wood be bonded to the aluminum sheet in any way?While the wood is out, what is the best way to patch any problems in the aluminum sheet?What else am I forgetting to ask about?????--------------------While perusing other threads, I found a lilnk to the SeaCast System. I realize that's for fiberglass boats, but might I be able to use two thin ply sheets with spacers, then fill the void between with this product, and make a new transom insert this way? Advantages/Disadvantages?Just throwing it out there for consideration. . .
After getting everything out of the way & removing the old wood, and cleaning it up, is there any prep that should be done to the now exposed aluminum?
No, just a ligh sanding and a light coat of zinc chromate spray paint.
Quote:
Should the wood be bonded to the aluminum sheet in any way?
No, other than the through bolts that were already there.
Quote:
While the wood is out, what is the best way to patch any problems in the aluminum sheet?
Marine Tex and JB Weld.
Quote:
What else am I forgetting to ask about?????
That's about it. Let us know when you get the interior out.
I propbably won't start on ripping things apart until after Columbus Weekend - there's still good boating weather here, & I want to take advantage of it. I'm becoming more intrigued with the potential of using the Sea Cast to form the transom, maybe by using two sheets of fiberglass instead of wood, just to keep the material consistent & eliminate wood rot entirely.As things progress, I'll let you know.Thanks again,Matt M
Kilroy,I do not like that idea. Sea Cast does not have the fiberous structural integrity of plywood.Rebuild the transom, as it was, and seal it properly. If done so, it will outlive you.Be careful running the boat with a bad transom. You can create some SERIOUS problems, not to mention safety.
DJ - Decided to start working on transom repair while the weather is nice, so no more in the water 'til next year.While I'm throwing out ideas, here's another one: What about a transom extension?From my other thread:"I have decided to forego getting the boat out on the water again this year so I can start on replacing my transom (I started another topic for that). I just began the process of disconnecting all the controls & cables. When I disconnected the steering link from the steering cable, I swung the engine back & forth to see the full extent of travel andI do not get full stop-to-stop swing out of my motor!Apparently, with the space I have in the splashwell, if I were set up to get full travel turning to starboard, the link would be too short for getting much steering to port. Conversely, if the link were long enough to allow full travel for a port turn, the end of the cable would extend and stop agains the inside of the splashwell with barely any steering to starboard.To get full extension either way I'd need about 3 to 4 inches more cable retraction and 4-5 more inches of cable extension."A transom extension would cure that problem, right? Plus, by moving the motor aft a bit, I can re-design the whole splashwell assembly to make it more space efficient. Lemme know...
Hi Kilroy. First of all, I want to second everything DJ said in his last post. You're looking at way, way too much time and money with Seacast. I think it's a neat product, with neat application, but it was designed for a fiberglass boat because a fiberglass boat is infinitely harder to deal with when changing a transom. You'll be so happy with wood that's been coated in epoxy. You'll more or less encapsule that piece of wood for the transom, and still have the integrity that DJ referred to. As far as extending your outboard out, I'm not sure on this one. It would seem to me that you have a certain balance with that boat and that motor. Would putting the motor in a different place change that? Maybe someone with some experience on this matter can chime in, but it just stands to reason...
I noticed a loss of full motor swing when I converted the old cable and pulley steering to teleflex steering system, in a '67 starcraft. In practice, it hasn't been a problem. I probably lost some low speed turning radius, but not enough to consider it a problem. In your case, if you didn't notice a turning radius issue before, it is not a problem.
Hello all - This is why I'm putting out all my wacky ideas not - to see what'll work & what won't. What else would you expect from a new boat owner (new as in the owner, not the boat. . .) except a person who's looking at all different products & techniques, & wanting to try EVERYTHING that is out there, all at once? I'm counting on all of you to keep my new boat enthusiasm in check - or at least channelled in the right direction!John_S - I have had radius turning problems, which is great fun in tight quarters, i.e. mooring at crowded finger docks. My '86 Caprice wagon is easier to parallel park in Hoboken than it has been at times to moor my boat! While I don't think I want to put in a cable&pulley system, I would like to have full steering capability. Just guestimating, I'd say I'm losing 25% to 40% of my motor swing on each side, with more loss when turning to port.DJ & Swimmin' - I'm most likely going to laminate plywood & 'glass it, or at least epoxy it, but When I see something interesting or new, I gotta find out more. You guys are part of that "finding out more" - THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Matt M
If I read your post correctly, the steering is not hitting on anything, just to its limits in both directions. If that is the case, a transom extension, will not improve it. Since you are not centered in travel, the link might be bent.
Exatly the opposite! I shoulda had the camera...Another bit of info: The nut on the port side of the motor (opposite of the outer cable housing) is not installed. If it were, that would further decrease the amount of travel available to make a turn to port by about an inch.I just have to go back this weekend with the camera & take some pix.Thaks,Matt M
Originally posted by DJ: Yes I have. Done it many times, as a matter of fact. Aluminums are MUCH easier than fiberglass.You'll have to remove bolts, rivets, etc. Once that's done, it's a piece of cake.Here's a TIP, DO NOT remove the outside. Work from the inside out. AT ALL COSTS, leave the outside shell alone. Lot's of drilling, etc. but all easily reassembled.Once you get to the wood core, report back and I'll tell you how to make a new core.
Originally posted by DJ: Yes I have. Done it many times, as a matter of fact. Aluminums are MUCH easier than fiberglass.You'll have to remove bolts, rivets, etc. Once that's done, it's a piece of cake.Here's a TIP, DO NOT remove the outside. Work from the inside out. AT ALL COSTS, leave the outside shell alone. Lot's of drilling, etc. but all easily reassembled.Once you get to the wood core, report back and I'll tell you how to make a new core.
DJ.........Just surfing the sight tonight....came across your offer to tell us how to make a new core. I just got the old core out of my '62 Starcraft Jupiter this afternoon and was here looking for advice on building a new one. Specifically.......do I need to use marine plywood?? Pressure Treated?? What kind of hardware shall I use on reassembly. The old bolts were mostly aluminum, and of course are now broken. Sure would appreciate your input!!!
While we're talking new cores, two of the things I have questions about are:1) The trim along the upper edges was secured with rivets that went into blind holes in the wood. They have since corroded away. Should I just use screws to replace them once I install the new core, or try to replicate the riveting?2 Around the transom cut-out, there are wood screws that secure the transomwell/seating assembly to the wood core. Would it be more structurally sound to drill all the way through the aluminum skin and secure this with stainless machine screws/washers/nuts?Thanks,Matt M.
OK - I got pix of the steering -http://mysite.verizon.net/kilroyjc/Please click on "Steering range of motion issues" on the left navigation bar.I'm wondering if using a transom-mount steering system as opposed to a pivot-tube steering system would be a solution to this? I shoulda stayed awake in geometry class...thanks,Matt M
Kilroy,You're fretting over minor details. It's rare that outboards have the same swing, left to right, with a cable system.You MAY be able to change it by mounting the pivot arm in a different hole on the outboard pivot.Also, do you have the correct pivot arm? There was more than one choice.How's the transom rebuild going?
DJ - Well, the transom rebuild is going slowly, because I live in north Jersey, & the boat is down the shore, 60 miles away...I have to build a rolling A-frame to hoist & store the motor first, then I can get a better look at the pivot arm. My problem/question isn't really about equal travel from left to right, but the total travel available - when you compare the range of motion with the steering attached, and then with the steering disconnected, you can see that there's a rather large difference between the two ranges.I really didn't notice this until I picked up a cable lubrication fitting - when I read the mounting directions for it, I found I had nothing to attach it to! That's what is shown in that first photo.I have had a minor stroke of luck, however: A friend of mine has just gone into business for himself as a cabinetmaker, with a full shop, so I can put the arm on him to laminate the replacement transom core & shape it professionally, instead of me doing it "medium-speed" (half-fast ) with cinderblocks and a jigsaw.I won't be able to work on it again for the next two weekends, due to other commitments, so this will be a nice winter work-in-the-weather project.The advantage to that is I won't rush things. I'll be able to sent the whole splashwell assembly to a body shop to have it painted properly after the miscellaneous holes & other imperfections are TIG-welded up, and some other reinforcements installed. Plus, I'll have time to find a new or good used red-plug harness & extension to replace the beat-up one I currently have, which had been critter-chewed & soldered back together.Would there be any advantage to sandwiching fiberglass in-between the layers of wood in the core? Would the epoxy be a suitable bonding agent for the lamination? Just something else that percolated in the back of my brain over the last few days.I'd much rather hash out the details here & have things shot down than screw it up down the road.Thanks again,Matt M
Originally posted by KilroyJC:Would there be any advantage to sandwiching fiberglass in-between the layers of wood in the core? Would the epoxy be a suitable bonding agent for the lamination?
Just get yourself the wood, glue and screw it until you have the correct thickness, have your buddy cut/shape it to fit, and then coat the whole thing with epoxy. That's more than was done at the factory, and it's lasted this long!
Aluminum Starcraft transom repair?
), tight? I spent a lot of time under the splashwell playing with wiring & the bilge pump, and that side is what I've been visualizing - not the outside. From the inside the wood does not completely make up the transom - there is aluminum from approximately the waterline to the bottom, and in from the wales approx 4-6 inches.
) with cinderblocks and a jigsaw.
Linear Mode
