280 outdrive with water in oil and oil on bellows - Short term and long term advice

So right before I went to lake Powell with the scouts last week I noticed a little oil on the trailering bracket and it looked like it was coming off the bottom of the bellow. So I changed the drive oil to see and it looked like it might be a little milky. Didn't have time or parts to do anything but hope for the best. Now I am back from 5 days on the water, drained it to see and it is carmel milky. If I reach up under the bellow with my finger there is oil on both the top and bottom bellow.

Unfortunately, I am in the same predicament again, headed back to Lake Powell to meet up with family and the boat has to go.

So short term I am debating between just going on this new oil for 4 days with a known leak or changing the drive oil every night ( I am getting pretty good at it) . Anyone who has seen outdrives go bad know how risky a little fresh water in the oil for another trip is?

Long term I am ordering big and small bellows, two o-rings and the gasket for the fill screw. The one other post I found had referenced replacing the seals and something I did not understand about greasing zerks while I was in there. Can't you access all the zerks from the outside? Is there anything else I should replace or check while I am in there?

Also, the exploded view of all the gears in the outdrive is a tad intimidating. I am reasonably handy but have never got into my drive deeper than replacing the shift cable. Any chance I am biting off more than I could chew by removing the upper assembly? Thanks to all who share - I have learned and fixed many things thanks to this forum. I will try to take pictures of the job and post for the next guy.

Re: 280 outdrive with water in oil and oil on bellows - Short term and long term advi

The problem isn't just your drive internals. If gear oil is getting out of your drive and into the bellows, your input shaft seal is most likely faulty, and the bellows are faulty which allows the gear oil to escape. If gear oil is coming out of your bellows, you can bet water is getting in them. That means your u-joints and gimble bearing are sitting in water. Not exactly what they were designed for.

So on top of a bellows replacement, you'll need to replace the input shaft seal and take a serious look at the u-joints and gimble bearing and see what kind of shape they are in.

Re: 280 outdrive with water in oil and oil on bellows - Short term and long term advi

I don't think anyone, in good conscience, would recommend running the drive with water in the oil. Here's a thread that talks about removing the upper gearbox to change the bellows: http://forums.iboats.com/volvo-penta-i-o-inboard-gas-engines-outdrives/water-bellows-604466.htm. Somewhere in that thread is a link to a manual for your drive.

Do yourself a favor and perform a pressure test before taking the drive apart. Instructions are in the manual. You can find a pressure tester on ebay or build one yourself. That way you can verify if other seals are leaking. Like skydive mentioned, the o-ring on the input shaft seal is probably cut from rust. Since you'll need to open up the gearbox to replace that o-ring, plan on replacing the shift shoe o-ring as well.

The bearing inside the flywheel cover is called the Primary Drive Shaft (PDS) bearing. Depends on if you have a 4 cylinder or V8 engine on if you have one or two bearings and if change is possible without pulling the engine.

Do as much research as you can before opening up the gearbox. Stripping out those front allen head screws can end up costing you quite a few bucks. Heat is your friend for that operation.

For what it's worth, I always keep spare O-rings and gasket for removing the upper gearbox as well as dipstick and drain seals.

Re: 280 outdrive with water in oil and oil on bellows - Short term and long term advi

So I really appreciate the info and advice Pirate Past 40. Sounds like it is time for a big job. The boat has been in the family since new and I don't know that the outdrive has ever been opened other than to change the oil. If I knew it was just the upper drive assembly to take apart, replace parts, and put back together I would do it myself but your terrifying statement "pull the engine" has me thinking it is time to find a shop. I have done everything myself since I became the caretaker of the family boat about 5 years ago.

My boat has an AQ200 which is a chevy 305 with a 280 outdrive. Sorry for leaving that detail off of my otherwise wordy post.

Well good idea or bad, I am going to the lake Monday. All my siblings and families are going and the family boat has to go. Two weeks ago the boat literally ran just like it did in 1981 so whatever ill effects this is causing there are no symptoms yet.. It stayed in the water for 5 days and what I drained from the outdrive is more oil than water so hopefully the problem isn't too bad. This trip we are staying in town instead of the lake so the boat will come out of the water each night. I think I will change the outdrive oil each night and hope for the best. That should protect the outdrive, as for the u-joint and bearing I just need to hope Volvo's robust design hangs in there for 4 more days.

Other than replacing the drive oil - any other suggestions for making my bad idea of running as is less of a bad idea?

Also - the link you posted just opens the home page for the forums. Any I couldn't find it with a few searches. Let me know how I can find that thread. Thanks a boatload!

Re: 280 outdrive with water in oil and oil on bellows - Short term and long term advi

Other than replacing the drive oil - any other suggestions for making my bad idea of running as is less of a bad idea?

Bad idea to continue running this.
Your Bellows are compromised, water has rusted the main drive gear seal (which has caused it to leak now),
The main drive gear seal surface washer change requires a fresh rolling torque value check/change.

Water has most likely reached the PDS bearings. A PDS bearing failure can result in severed damage.

Pull transmission and engine leaving the flywheel cover attached to the shield.
Change PDS bearings/seals, re-seal out drive, and install new drive shaft bellows.

This is much less expensive than the repair cost will be for the damage that you are destine for.

Re: 280 outdrive with water in oil and oil on bellows - Short term and long term advi

So follow up post. I tried to take the great advice given and successfully found a volvo penta bellow and tried to install night before the trip. After loosening the upper housing I was defeated by my steering helmet pin. Would not budge. Found a post with exact pin and problem suggesting removing the steering bolts on each side which would allow the steering helmet to lift off. That didnt work either. I could not get enough up down play with tilt in any position to get helmet over that pin. So I put it all back together without fixing a thing. Those side steering bolts are easier to get off than on. There is a washer that I had to slide in the narrow slot no tool would fit using duck tape folded over and attached at one end. Once the bolt was engaged I just pulled the tape off.

So I went back to plan A and just changed the outdrive oil after two days and it actually looked just about like new oil. Very slightly milky.

I am afraid to pry any harder on that helmet steering pin that I already have, so I have an appointment at Porters marine in Tucson to take it in and have the drive seals redone and new bellow installed, and whatever else they find based on the symptoms. It was obvious John the owner had taken many an old volvo drive apart when I was there picking up the bellows and asking him questions. I will post what they find and replace as a follow up to the post.

Thanks again for your advice.

So as promised - here is the follow up post in case anyone finds this with google and a similar problem. The shop did infact replace the seals on the outdrive side of the bellows along with the bellows. The seal on the engine side of the bellows he said looked OKso he got in there and greased them up best he could and he replaced the u-joint. So 500 bucks later my bellows don't leak water, my outdrive shouldn't let water in the drive seal if they do happen to leak and I have new Ujoints that are a little noisy when you turn sharp.
As always, appreciate the great information provided

Follow up post for information - changed my outdrive oil for startup this year and it looked great. Boat has about 20 days on the water with no issues from running with bad bellow/seal and changing oil each day for the trip.

So how was Lake Powell? We've been several times but really have to plan ahead 'cause it's 2,000 miles from SC.

Powell is always fabulous. My 81 boat has been in the family since new so it has made many many trips to Powell.