86 johnson 140 problems...

mrnmrskyle

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Apr 8, 2013
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well, when i bought this boat a month or so ago it would run and start fine, but the timing didn't advance b/c the advance thing was stuck... but still started and ran great to 30mph top speed. well.... it's been all down hill since I messed with it...

i have...
-changed the air bleeds back to the correct ones (originally they were also in opposite holes than the book said)he
- new plugs
- new roller cam for throttle b/c the one that opens butterflies had something happen and was flat on one side


today we took it out... started up at the docks great... idled good... got out of the no wake zone... and up till about 1/2 throttle runs fine... (almost sounds like it has a little miss to it at first though) but once you lay it to wide opt en throttle it'll run like a bat out of hell for about 5 seconds and shut off...

i ended up paddling back b/c the dag on nut that holds the starter spring and gear on flew off into the water... (had the hood off)... so anyone know what size nut that is?

i also noticed sparking (guess "arching") from the starter to flywheel when i started it... which i have a suspicion that i have stray voltage b/c while it's running i just feel like i have a small amount of electricity when i touch a bare bolt.

also wanting to see if anyone can tell me which wire goes to which coil... the small feed wires... just to make sure they are properly installed. i have the manual but the diagram just shows 4 coils and plugs and the wires... no cyl. numbers! (ugh)

so any thoughts? before i drag this to the marina..

oh yeah, i did test compression... not a new engine but even and not too shabby... and like i said it started up first tap of the key (after a week of sitting) and originally it ran wide open.. so there has to be something dumb missing here....
 
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Re: 86 johnson 140 problems...

You said sparking do u think it has crack in the coil i heard you can epoxy it that nut could be a 8mm but i would just buy a couple at hardware there only 12 cent a piece check coil
 

mrnmrskyle

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Re: 86 johnson 140 problems...

the sparking is between starter and flywheel when starting (didn't notice it at other times)... i'd assume the starter (that is a brand new starter... evidently they don't believe in loc-tite lol) would have SAE sizes and not metric... but i could be wrong....
 
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Re: 86 johnson 140 problems...

I was talking about the thread size but u think float could be sticking its kinda hard to get info on here at night bump it up tomarrow and u should get some good info good luck
 
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Re: 86 johnson 140 problems...

I see what nut your talking about looks like 9/16 on mine or 15 mm mine has a big starter try measuring with a 32 ruler and youll know what it is
 

mrnmrskyle

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Re: 86 johnson 140 problems...

Possible float... Just gonna go through manual and do all electrical tests it list for my engine.... Like I said a month ago I road it 3 hours with zero issues starting or running (except the timing advance being stuck)... Then I kept "fixing" stuff... Feels like I broke more lol. Not positive stator is charging either.... Should have bought an inboard!
 
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Re: 86 johnson 140 problems...

maybe the ground wire from the timing plate is disconnected or broken and the spark is jumping from the flywheel trying to use the starter as a ground. If you have a volt meter with the motor off ohm the plate to the battery grounding bolt. also look for trapped and cut wires where the flywheel may have worn the insulation. There is a chance the starter is trying to find a ground but if im correct the 86 has a bolt on the starter bracket where the main battery negative is mounted so check that the bolt and terminal are clean and tight. (if your negative is not mounted to the starter bracket that could be a problem). I presume you have fixed the timing plate and it now moves as designed.
 

mrnmrskyle

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Re: 86 johnson 140 problems...

Yes it has ground bolt on starter and yes the timing plAte moves as designed..
 
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Re: 86 johnson 140 problems...

I think your wires are right cause it ran i would run it for a while maybe in the dark your nieghbors wont like but youll know where spark is coming from tape it up if it run like that u probly dont have any other problems just put nut on check in daytime let it get warm then find spark u should be good
 

mrnmrskyle

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Re: 86 johnson 140 problems...

Well today I cleaned what I believe are grounds on the ignition coils, fixed starter and cleaned any ground I saw...


Took it to lake.... It would go full speed and haul ***** sometimes, others it would run great to 3,000 Rpm and start to stall out.... My last little drive it started to sputter pretty bad... Like it was missing a cylinder... Any thouggts
 
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2,906
Re: 86 johnson 140 problems...

time to find the real problem which sounds like you are loosing a cylinder. The engine requires fuel-air-compression and a spark so first test would be to buy a spark tester ($5) and test to make sure you have good strong sparks on all cylinders. Also borrow a compression tester and test all the cylinders (free to borrow or $20 to buy). Did you check the timing after fixing the base that was stuck. If not borrow a timing light from the auto parts store then look for joe reeves post on how to time a outboard.
If the spark/timing/compression is good then its time to move on to the carbs. If the carbs have not been rebuilt for a while then its worth the investment to rebuild now because if you run one cylinder lean it will get hot and melt the piston and thats expensive to fix.
Once carbs are rebuilt make sure the bulb pumps up stiff. When running make sure the bulb doesnt get sucked in and if the engine still wants to stall out try pumping the bulb to see if that fixs the problem.

Your problem could be one of many things but with the right tools you should be able to work out the problem once and for all
 

mrnmrskyle

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Re: 86 johnson 140 problems...

glenn-

i checked spark on each cylinder while hooked to the hose... by removing the plug wire and holding it off the plug, all had spark, but was not what i would consider to be as strong as a car spark. it jumped a good 1/2 inch gap between plug and plug wire...

compression tester i have done, all were around 95 psi... (and where do u get one for $20 lol.. my snap-on one was closer to $300 probably lol)

i am going to have to look up this joe reeves post.

my bulb pumps up stiff when before i start it, gets softer as i ride, but doesn't suck in, also pumping the bulb while riding made no difference...

maybe it's time to rebuild the carbs... we just re built a $1,400 racing carb at work... no way in the world could these have that many stupid things built into them! lol


ooh yeah, yesterday when it started to mess up the tach started acting really funny as well... like it'd go in and out... but evidently i can up a prop pitch b/c it's about 300 rpm highher than it should be if i hold it to the wood.
 

mrnmrskyle

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Re: 86 johnson 140 problems...

update... since it's mother's day i didn't get a lot of time to play BUT i went and bought the spark tester that you can set to see it jump... (opposed to the ones we use that plug in the wire and to plug and just have a little light inside them... my coils would all jump 1/2 an inch of spark and looked pretty strong...

but... i did find my red rectifier wire had come apart... so maybe it was coming apart yesterday when it started missing.. (it was completely apart from where it hooks to the starter solenoid. if that's even where it is supposed to go) i don't know if it would have ran w/ that unhooked even.

going to do the joe reeves method of timing tommorrow and see if mine was even close.... and look into ordering carb rebuild kits... i don't know when or if they have ever been done... (from the looks of the bolts they had been taken off at some point and time... but who knows...) i let it run about 5 minutes on the hose... when i pumped the ball 3 times it was hard... then while running it got soft but never lost it's football shape.
 

mrnmrskyle

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Messages
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Re: 86 johnson 140 problems...

well, attempting to research online but it doesn't help at all... i'm still scared maybe my stator is messed up... but would it cause this issue? it doesn't seem to be charging like it should... it reads 13 volts on the volt meter on the boat while riding... but never gets up to 14 volts... i hate boats
 
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Re: 86 johnson 140 problems...

If your getting 13 volts thats pretty good on a boat motor ive bought 3 alternators one day to get one that charged 14 you have to buy new the rebuilt ones just dont cut it
 

mrnmrskyle

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Messages
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Re: 86 johnson 140 problems...

I have the manual which I have looked through.... And read a lot of. To me this is a place to get an idea of a starting point to start looking. I just had my stator off when I cleaned and lubed my timer base. It was nice and clean and not melted. I have little concern that it is what's causing my problem. I took the boat out yesterday and performed flawless.... Except my idle was a little sparatic... It was idling at 1100 sometimes up to about 1400 and once went down to 900. My vro and temp gauges and a lot were disabled on this motor prior to my purchase. I am taking it back out tonight and adding "fix it" to my fuel. I know that sounds dumb and as an automotive mechanic we don't believe in many chemicals... But even the shop foreman who builds $80,000 race engines from his insane home shop is a firm believer in the stuff.... Cleans a carb like crazy!!
 

mrnmrskyle

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Re: 86 johnson 140 problems...

i would like to know how to tell if my engine is a quick start model or not?
 
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2,906
Re: 86 johnson 140 problems...

I have the manual which I have looked through.... And read a lot of. To me this is a place to get an idea of a starting point to start looking. I just had my stator off when I cleaned and lubed my timer base. It was nice and clean and not melted. I have little concern that it is what's causing my problem. I took the boat out yesterday and performed flawless.... Except my idle was a little sparatic... It was idling at 1100 sometimes up to about 1400 and once went down to 900. My vro and temp gauges and a lot were disabled on this motor prior to my purchase. I am taking it back out tonight and adding "fix it" to my fuel. I know that sounds dumb and as an automotive mechanic we don't believe in many chemicals... But even the shop foreman who builds $80,000 race engines from his insane home shop is a firm believer in the stuff.... Cleans a carb like crazy!!

"fix it" thats snake oil .......now "sea foam" can fix anything on a boat lol.

neither will fix a major problem but they can help with small amounts of water, carbon and varnish
 
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2,906
Re: 86 johnson 140 problems...

i would like to know how to tell if my engine is a quick start model or not?

lol i honestly dont know and ive always wanted to ask that question (i know it adjusts the timing on starting but what is it, how does it work and how do you disable it)
 
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