Typical charges by boat mechanics

TollySam · May 2, 2013

I recently had a full service on my twin engine inboard - oil, filters, distributor, points, spark plugs. The mechanic gave me an estimate of 8 hours for the two engines at $90 per hour. The hourly rate seems typical locally. the number of hours seemed high but I was expecting that he was providing a hedge.

Well, the service went fine, in fact the mechanic actually took about 3.5 hours to complete the job. When I got the invoice however, I was still charged for the 8 hours and was very confused.

In my mind, the original quote was an for hourly job. The mechanic says no, the estimate was based on some kind of standard fee schedule and this was a fixed price proposal and I should pay for the eight hours, even that was nowhere in the original quote. The mechanic has a pretty good local reputation.

Something just doesn't seem right but would appreciate some feedback as to what is common. The guy was methodical and not particularly speedy. So, how does an 8 hour job actually take 3.5 hours ? Does anyone know where I can get access to the standard rates he's talking about ?

Silvertip · May 2, 2013

Re: Typical charges by boat mechanics

If these were V6 or V8 engines I would first check the two banks of cylinders that face each other. These would be the port side of the starboard engine and the starboard side of the port engine. You would look for evidence that those 6 or 8 plugs were actually replaced. Why? Because of the close quarters it would be easy to just change the two outer banks of cylinders thinking you would never notice since the inside banks can hardly be seen anyway. Yes -- I'm a skeptic when I hear stories like this. How do you know it took 3.5 hours? In fact that makes me even more skeptical. While 8 hours seem long, 3.5 hours seems short. But then we have no idea what boat you have, what engines and drives you have, and just so you know, full service in my view does not stop with the items you mention. You said nothing about servicing the drives.

TollySam · May 2, 2013

Re: Typical charges by boat mechanics

Silvertip said:
If these were V6 or V8 engines I would first check the two banks of cylinders that face each other. These would be the port side of the starboard engine and the starboard side of the port engine. You would look for evidence that those 6 or 8 plugs were actually replaced. Why? Because of the close quarters it would be easy to just change the two outer banks of cylinders thinking you would never notice since the inside banks can hardly be seen anyway. Yes -- I'm a skeptic when I hear stories like this. How do you know it took 3.5 hours? In fact that makes me even more skeptical. While 8 hours seem long, 3.5 hours seems short. But then we have no idea what boat you have, what engines and drives you have, and just so you know, full service in my view does not stop with the items you mention. You said nothing about servicing the drives.

These are 350HP Mercruisers V8 with inboard drives. The boat is a '76 Tollycraft 40' Tri Cabin. I was present when the mechanic was there and kind of watching (I had my portable office on board). I saw the old parts. The engine compartment has clearance between the engines and the deck above comes off so there's plenty of access except that the outside (hull) side of the engines is hard to get to. He struggled a bit with access to the spark plugs toward the hulls due to clearance but got them changed. I'm struggling the time difference between quoted and actual.

JimS123 · May 2, 2013

Re: Typical charges by boat mechanics

My guy quotes me a price, just like yours did. He said 8*90 and that's what he charged you.

My guy is methodical too. Most importantly, when he's done its done right the first time and I have NEVER had to call him back. Furthermore, he comes when he says and the boat is immaculate when he's done.

OTOH I've heard others complain that they get charged MORE than the actual quote and the motor doesn't run perfect afterwards.

Sounds like you got a good deal. If the work turns out to be well done, hire him again.

64osby · May 2, 2013

Re: Typical charges by boat mechanics

He is charging book time. If he beats that time he makes more per hour.

A friend of mine paints cars, he can paint 100 to 120 hours of book time in 40 hours.

MarkSee · May 5, 2013

Re: Typical charges by boat mechanics

The few shops around here I've been in do both. They have an hourly shop rate but also will have a "set" price for standard type of maintenance items to be done.

If they finish quicker they make out. If they run into issues and it takes longer, you should not have to pay any more than initially agreed to. There may be exceptions to that if when doing work something major comes up that was not known and could be a large cost to complete.

It will be interesting to see if any of the past or current marine mechanics respond on what it was/is in their experience.

Mark

matt167 · May 5, 2013

Re: Typical charges by boat mechanics

The technicians get paid for the book time ( flat rate ), not showing up and working for 8 hours and going home regardless. so for a tech working flat rate, they need to beat the clock to make money. If you want to pay for actual work time you need to find a shop that charges straight time and not flat rate. Your results may vary.

Now if a flat rate shop books it at 8 hours, and they take 9, then the tech is loosing 1hr and your paying for 8hrs.

tazrig · May 8, 2013

Re: Typical charges by boat mechanics

I would never pay flat rate labor. I want the job done right and not rushed. I certainly want an estimate before they do the job but if it goes over, I understand, Thats boating. If it comes in under, Great! I don't take my car to dealerships anymore for the same reason. I don't mind paying for "X" for an honest hour of work. I do mind paying some arbitrary, unrealistic amount where the mechanic is more interested in beating the clock than doing the job right.

ENSIGN · May 12, 2013

Re: Typical charges by boat mechanics

The man quoted you eight hours to service your twins which seems a fair price. If it took him twelve hours would you be willing to pay him for twelve hours?

Yacht Dr. · May 12, 2013

Re: Typical charges by boat mechanics

Its very common to do a Flat rate with Mechs or even us Glass guys.

Im sure you would not be very happy watching/timing me do a 3 hr gelcoat job that took me only 2 hrs and expected the 3 hr payment. Sometimes you win some and sometimes you lose some.

Your not getting burned. Sounds to me that you have a good Mech that can do an 8 hr job in 4 hrs. Remember that guy probably has 10k in tools and has Pro EXP.

Remember that guy who buffed out your hull at $12/foot ? .. cost him basically nothing in materials and only took 2 hrs to wheel out a 40 footer for $480 ? ... yea that guy is getting almost 2k a DAY with a $200 wheel. Now that Is some JING !!!

.. Forget about that bottom paint job that cost you a few hundred.

tazrig · May 12, 2013

Re: Typical charges by boat mechanics

ENSIGN said:
The man quoted you eight hours to service your twins which seems a fair price. If it took him twelve hours would you be willing to pay him for twelve hours?

To answer your question... yes. I have rarely had a job come in at less than expected, but when it does I accept it as a pleasant surprise and it tells me I have an honest mechanic who I can trust and recommend to friends. I trust my mechanic and if he quotes me 8 and it goes to 12 than so be it. Obviously he ran into unforeseen problems that couldn't be helped. If someone quoted me 8 and he knew in advance it was only going to take him 4 and still charges me for the 8 then I am paying too much, the mechanic is being inherently dishonest and I need to find another mechanic. I never use marine tradesman who just charge by the job. I don't want to hear that "this or that" isn't included in the way they do the job. This is what I want done, this is how I want it done using these parts or materials. Punch in when you start and punch out when you're done. If I think they're way out of line price wise when they finish, I'll pay them because that's what I've agreed to and I just won't go back. I have a very small pool of mechanics that I let near my cars or boat. Their actions cause me to trust them and with that trust comes loyalty and numerous referrals.

Yacht Dr. · May 12, 2013

Re: Typical charges by boat mechanics

tazrig said:
To answer your question... yes. I have rarely had a job come in at less than expected, but when it does I accept it as a pleasant surprise and it tells me I have an honest mechanic who I can trust and recommend to friends. I trust my mechanic and if he quotes me 8 and it goes to 12 than so be it. Obviously he ran into unforeseen problems that couldn't be helped. If someone quoted me 8 and he knew in advance it was only going to take him 4 and still charges me for the 8 then I am paying too much, the mechanic is being inherently dishonest and I need to find another mechanic. I never use marine tradesman who just charge by the job. I don't want to hear that "this or that" isn't included in the way they do the job. This is what I want done, this is how I want it done using these parts or materials. Punch in when you start and punch out when you're done. If I think they're way out of line price wise when they finish, I'll pay them because that's what I've agreed to and I just won't go back. I have a very small pool of mechanics that I let near my cars or boat. Their actions cause me to trust them and with that trust comes loyalty and numerous referrals.

What about when I spend .5 hrs on the phone to the supplier on hold ? .. do you pay for that ? .. I mean I have over 4 hrs a week just doing Free estimates for folks .. how much is it going to cost for my product to pass on to the customer ( YOU ) .. now you go to someone else..

So the Mech cant be Good and research your parts/materials and get paid for that ?

There is No 'Punch in and punch out' time on your boat mate .. its sometimes more complicated than that.

Unless your willing to pay for the Mechs time and effort away from the 'clock' ..

We dedicate Time to your boat .. You just dont see it or pay for it .. until the bill comes in. ..

YD.

Yacht Dr. · May 12, 2013

Re: Typical charges by boat mechanics

PS. Ive seen Mechs research parts on lunch break.. order parts on the time off ..

Dont get this wrong.. you may have a sneaker .. but you may have a real good one ..

YD.

tazrig · May 12, 2013

Re: Typical charges by boat mechanics

Yacht Dr. said:
What about when I spend .5 hrs on the phone to the supplier on hold ? .. do you pay for that ? .. I mean I have over 4 hrs a week just doing Free estimates for folks .. how much is it going to cost for my product to pass on to the customer ( YOU ) .. now you go to someone else..

So the Mech cant be Good and research your parts/materials and get paid for that ?

There is No 'Punch in and punch out' time on your boat mate .. its sometimes more complicated than that.

Unless your willing to pay for the Mechs time and effort away from the 'clock' ..

We dedicate Time to your boat .. You just dont see it or pay for it .. until the bill comes in. ..

YD.

Free off the cuff estimates are a cost of doing business (how else do you generate business?) and I wouldn't expect to pay for that. More involved estimates involving you having to disassemble something I would expect to pay for. If you have to research or chase down parts I would expect to pay for that also as you're doing it on my behalf. My yard currently has their mechanics log into and out of the computer when they start and stop working on my boat. I certainly don't expect it but if my guy wants to do work off the clock on my boat than good for him. That buys my loyalty and that has value to him. I realize it's the nature of the business that more ends up getting done to the boat than is always billed for which is why labor rates are what they are. I'm just saying I think it's easier for a customer to understand and relate to (more transparent) that you think a job will take "X" hours to complete, you charge "X" per hour and it took "X" hours to do a particular job rather than leaving a customer with a funny feeling wondering why he just payed for 8 hours when the job only took 4.

Yacht Dr. · May 13, 2013

Re: Typical charges by boat mechanics

tazrig said:
IF you charge "X" per hour and it took "X" hours to do a particular job rather than leaving a customer with a funny feeling wondering why he just payed for 8 hours when the job only took 4.

Again I say .. if you Accept a bid of oh lets say 300 bucks for a 30' hull polish .. and you watch the guy do this project in 1.5 hrs. You just gave him 150/hr. You can factor all things in your thinking that you just got ripped off.

However .. if you asked 'how much to do this' and one guy said 8 hrs but the next guy said 4 hrs .. who would you choose ? This is where your Pros come into play. The first guy might not know or have the Tools to do it in 4 hrs .. the second guy Might Know what hes talking about and has the tools to do X project ..

The second guy has resources that the first guy does not. So what if the second guy does it in 4 hrs ? You still accepted the job on the rate @ 8hrs .. No matter what your going to pay 1k for the job. Its Who is doing the job.

Some people make $ out there Beating the 'Clock'. ... those same people also loose sometimes because They Care about the Quality of the project and will keep going instead of you coming back due to some "other reason".. Get me ?

Find your quality guy ( no matter how fast it takes him ).

In the long run your going to Pay for X .. Your boat IS in their hands. Its never a good Idea to **** off your Mech or glass guy .. or they will get back that 300 bucks later on.

Just letting you know ..

YD.

HT32BSX115 · May 13, 2013

Re: Typical charges by boat mechanics

Welcome Aboard!

Did you drive there in a BMW, Audi or Mercedes? (btw, drive into one their dealers and see what they charge to do ANYTHING!!!

)

oil, filters, distributor, points, spark plugs

I wouldn't pay $400 for an oil change and tuneup on 1 engine or $800 for the same on 2 engines.

BUT, you may have agreed to 8hrs in the service contract. $90 is common for automotive AND marine service work.

These are 350HP Mercruisers V8 with inboard drives. The boat is a '76 Tollycraft 40' Tri Cabin. I was present when the mechanic was there and kind of watching (I had my portable office on board). I saw the old parts. The engine compartment has clearance between the engines and the deck above comes off so there's plenty of access except that the outside (hull) side of the engines is hard to get to. He struggled a bit with access to the spark plugs toward the hulls due to clearance but got them changed. I'm struggling the time difference between quoted and actual.

Now if he had included change the oil in the Velvet drives, changing raw water pumps and belts etc, I might get interested.

Looks like you might want to learn how to do it yourself. If you're unable because of ability, time, tools, etc......You're pretty much always going to be at someone else's mercy.

Regards,

Rick

doyall · May 18, 2013

Re: Typical charges by boat mechanics

TollySam said:
... Does anyone know where I can get access to the standard rates he's talking about ?

I have been intently following this thread to see if somebody knows where the 'book hours' chart can be found as well. It could be very beneficial in determining whether to do something myself or farm it out. Can anybody help us out?

Don S · May 18, 2013

Re: Typical charges by boat mechanics

There is no such thing as "Book Hours" on a boat. Every boat is different, and the engine manufacturers have no way of knowing where the boat builder will put his engine.

Some starters can be changed in 20 minutes. Some with the exact same engine may have to have the engine pulled out of the boat to get to it. So how can you make a flat rate manual for that?

Oshkosh1 · May 18, 2013

Re: Typical charges by boat mechanics

You obviously didn't see the sign EVERY good mechanic has posted at or near the desk:

$(KGrHqV,!isFERT69Z!zBRNmynhhhg~~60_12.JPG

Yacht Dr. · May 18, 2013

Re: Typical charges by boat mechanics

Don S said:
There is no such thing as "Book Hours" on a boat. Every boat is different, and the engine manufacturers have no way of knowing where the boat builder will put his engine.

Some starters can be changed in 20 minutes. Some with the exact same engine may have to have the engine pulled out of the boat to get to it. So how can you make a flat rate manual for that?

If its a Warranty issue then you bet your bottom dollar there is a " book hour rate " ..

Book hours are common with wrenches .. not so much for us fiberglass guys ..

YD.

Typical charges by boat mechanics

Typical charges by boat mechanics

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