1986 Force 85 HP Outboard - Will not start no spark

Hey guys,

Im having a rough time with my used boat I bought. I cant get the damn thing to start!

I think maybe I fried something in the ignition system. The starter motor runs fine, the choke engages, but it seems I have no spark. It wont even hiccup or pop or backfire or nothing like that.

I tested if the spark plugs have spark by removing one of the spark plug wires and connecting it to a fresh spark plug outside the cylinder. I turned the key, and looked back at the spark plug for any blue spark. Did not see anything. The sun was shining on the plug end, so I shadowed the end to see a spark, and still I saw nothing. Maybe the spark is not easily seen in daylight? Is it invisible? I'm not sure if this is how you check if you have spark, so please let me know if I did it wrong.

Also, it appeared that the starter motor was stuck in the "start" position on the flywheel. I know the pinion gear is suppose to raise and lower during starting, but right now its stuck on the flywheel and will not lower. Could that be the problem? Maybe a sign of the true problem?

There seems to be another problem as well. I tested starting the engine in a 45 gallon storage tote with water. And when I tried starting, it would occasional leave some oily gas in the tote. Looked like it was coming out of the water intake for the engine cooling system. Fuel leak? Maybe its from excessive gas leaving the cylinders from trying to start for an hour (with breaks for the starter, of course). Not sure what the leak means or if its a serious problem

Please help! I'm trying to avoid paying a costly mechanic and trying to do it myself.

Thanks for any help!

TDawg

Re: 1986 Force 85 HP Outboard - Will not start no spark

About the spark, The way you did it is fine except you didnt ground the spark plug. Have some one help you as one of you starts the motor and the other ground the spark plug while its connected to the plug. Try grounding it to the engine block. Be very careful doing it though, you are dealing with spark and you mentioned gas leak so I'd make sure you clean this up before messing wth spark. Good luck.

Re: 1986 Force 85 HP Outboard - Will not start no spark

Ok, so ibought some insulated solid core copper wire, stripped both ends, about 3 inches each, wrapped one end around a new spark plug and the other end, i unscrewed an unpainted nut that holds the CD ingintion thing on, and tighten the nut down over the bare wire.

From the beginning of my tests, i saw sparks. But, when i tried the second cylinder down, there was no spark. I went back to the original top cylinder, and the spark was gone. I also noticed that the engine almost sounded like it was going to start with one of the spark plug connectors was unplugged. I descided to unplug 2, and it sounded even better, even making loud "pop" sounds out the back, like it wanted to fire up.

This lead me to believe that it may be the battery is too weak? Or maybe the spark plugs (surface gap type) are the wrong kind for this low powered electrical system and need regular "J" plugs? im charging the battery right now, maybe it will help. Maybe i just need a beefer battery, cause it sounds like it can only fire a few plugs from the weak battery. I really dont know, any advice. Also, no more gas leak, i think i was flooding it before. I give it just a little prime now.

- TDawg

Re: 1986 Force 85 HP Outboard - Will not start no spark

Surface gap is the right kind. Sporadic spark is up to another iboater.

Re: 1986 Force 85 HP Outboard - Will not start no spark

You may have possibly fried the CD packs. I hate to even say that, but these motors must have the spark plugs grounded to the motor before you spin it over or damage occurs. You can easily make a spark tester out of a single strand of wire like you did. It can also be run to all three plugs at the same time. Take another test after you ground them all, and report back. What color are the CD packs? Black? and don't feel bad, you are not the first one to fry CD packs

Re: 1986 Force 85 HP Outboard - Will not start no spark

Fried CD packs? On no. Yeah, they are black, and there are two of them. They are connected to 3 separate ignition coils. I will try again with all 3 plugs and grounded to the engine. Gotta get more wire.

I'm going to test out the battery at a battery specialist just to make sure its healthy too.

If I did fry the CD's, How much do those CD packs cost? Are they hard to find?

- C. TD

Re: 1986 Force 85 HP Outboard - Will not start no spark

Don't mess with wires and stuff.
Get 3 sparkies.Inline spark testers.$5-6 apiece.
Then a compression test.Just to make sure there is no other problems.
Then if there is REALLY a no spark situation???
Get a factory manual.
Or CDI ignition . com has test procedures.
The 86 came with plug in connectors, you'll need to work around them.
Maybe replace with single connectors.
Usually a complete no spark situation is a stator.
Spark on #1/2 and no spark on 3 is a pack?
Or No spark on 3 but ok on 1/2 is again a pack.

Re: 1986 Force 85 HP Outboard - Will not start no spark

Good news guys, i got it started and it idled!

So heres what happened: i took out the boat battery cause i thought it was the cause. I took the battery to a battery specialist and he tested it for free. As he tested it, he said the battery was "shot" because the voltage dropped during the test. I watched it too, and it did. He said a new battery was $100. I figured i could use my own car battery, which was nice and strong. So, i went to the hardware store and got some 3/8" bolts and nuts so i could adapt the boat wires to my car battery.

I get to the boat, remove my car battery and install it in the boat. Everything thankfully fit. I hooked up the gas line and primed it, and it almost started. Then i primed it a couple more squeezes and it frickin fired up! I couldnt believe it.

Then, after 3 glorious minutes of sweet purring, i hear a horrible "ERRRR!" sound coming from the dash. I turned off the engine cause it sounded like a warning/danger alarm. I waited about 5 minutes and tried just turning the key to "on". Same horrible buzz sound.

Is the battery too strong its overloading the dash? Maybe the engine overheated or somethinng? I mean, it is just in a 45 gallon tote filled with water. I hope its not serious : /

if it aint one problem its another. Hope i get it figured out soon, im ready for this perfect weather.

- Cpt. TDawg

Re: 1986 Force 85 HP Outboard - Will not start no spark

Overheat. Time to change the impeller

Re: 1986 Force 85 HP Outboard - Will not start no spark

Damn, could it be because it was in a tub of water and not inside a water source like a lake or river?

The water level was just below the back fin (its right above the prop). Could it be not enough water getting to the impeller? It was bubbling pretty hard when it was in the tub, almost like the prop was in gear. Im guessing it spins the prop slightly during idle or maybe the impeller trying to suck up water. Where is the intake for the impeller anyway?

Re: 1986 Force 85 HP Outboard - Will not start no spark

If the water level was too low?
It would overheat.
You need to be at least 2in over the cavitation plate.
Bad news!!! Since you ran it without water.
You need to replace the impeller.

Re: 1986 Force 85 HP Outboard - Will not start no spark

Dunk it deeper and find out. Has to reach the pump not just the intakes on the torpedo. Install a telltale to easily see if you've got water circulation. Impeller change is routine maintenance. 1-2yrs. depending on use.

Re: 1986 Force 85 HP Outboard - Will not start no spark

Well, im going to buy an earmuff first And hook it up to a water hose, to see if it works still, then i will change the impeller if i really need to.

Re: 1986 Force 85 HP Outboard - Will not start no spark

You need to change it anyway. If it overheated in a barrel, it needs a new one. This is a yearly maintenance item that is the cheapest insurance you can buy. It will be roughly $16-$17 bucks to your door, and you can buy it right here on iboats. If they run without pumping water for as long as you stated, the vanes have been melted or worse.

Re: 1986 Force 85 HP Outboard - Will not start no spark

Well, i did not get the earmuffs like i said. They are not used for testing the cooling system like i thought they were.

I think i found out where the water input is for the impeller. So i took a garden hose and ran water directly into the PowerFlow(TM) water coolant waste ports to see where the water would come out. I figured, if it come out, why not do the reverse and see where it goes in...

It looks like the water intake is right next to the engine tail pipe, which makes sence cause gray smoke has been creeping out of the PowerFlow ports since i have been running it. The intake for the water coolant appears to be behind the prop in a dorsal fin looking thing thats hollow on the farest stern side. If any of this sounds wrong, please correct me.

So with this knowledge, i dunked the prop and stuff deeper by putting my tote tub on an incine on the hill (where the boat is parked) and turned the direction of the motor so the prop was in the deepest part of the tub, the part on the incline.

I tried starting the engine. It took aehile to start, maybe 3 minutes, which made me real nervous, but it finally started. Then i quickly ran to the back of the engine and watched the PowerFlow. You guys were right, it doesnt work. It must be melted or something. It didnt work since i bought it since i saw a demo of the boat being ran and the water did not come out of the PowerFlow ports. The original owner said it might be cause "maybe the engine needs to be running". He wasnt sure when its supposed to circulate cooling water, and im pretty certain the tub he used in front of me had enough water in there to reach the dorsal fin intake. So its fried.

I guess i will take the gearcase part tomorrow and see what parts i need, then order them from iboats (if the price is right : D ).

Thanks for all the help guys, i will be studying the chapter on the gearcase manual tonight. Not looking forward to it, but gotta do it.

Thanks again for the input,
- cpt. Tdawg

Re: 1986 Force 85 HP Outboard - Will not start no spark

So, I checked the manual for my engine for removing the impeller, and the instructions are pretty lame. It says instructions for engines below 10hp but not for my engine really. I checked YouTube and no videos on my engine.

I was wondering if you guys know of any step-by-step instructions to follow? I saw the exploded diagram of the gearcase and it looks pretty easy, but a step-by-step would be better for me. Im not super mechanically incline, I just get by.

Here's a photo of the exploded diagram of the 2-piece gearcase, in case it helps you guys out: .

Now to search for the parts...

Re: 1986 Force 85 HP Outboard - Will not start no spark

I did a step by step with pictures for a 150.
Probably pretty close.

It was an easy job even though I had to take it back apart and re-do a step.

Re: 1986 Force 85 HP Outboard - Will not start no spark

I believe there is a link to an impeller replacement at the top of the Force Forum.
That pic you posted isin't your motor.It's close but not yours.
To make sure you get the right impeller get the right parts diagram.
boats . net has the right diagram.

The slots on the lower is the water pickup.
If your muffs don't fit well??? Duct tape them in place(dry).
Get a FACTORY manual.The others are c r a p!!
The lower unit has a slotted screw towards the front.DO NOT TOUCH THIS!!!! IT WILL BE LOT"S O TROUBLE!!! It is the shift control pin.You'll have to take the lower apart if you take the screw out.
See the pic.The oil drain is on the bottom.

Re: 1986 Force 85 HP Outboard - Will not start no spark

Ok, so I guess I don't have the factory manual, its a Clymer(R) brand manual titled "Chrysler/Force Outboard Shop Manual - 3.5 - 140HP - 1966-1988". I was wondering why the manual had so little info on my motor specifically, it has so many different motors mention. Its not very helpful.

To JerryJerry05:

I looked for an impeller kit for a 1986 Force/Chrysler 85HP outboard on iboats store, and I could not find one. The closest I found was a 90 HP under both the Chrysler/Force listing. But the year and the HP is wrong on the iBoats listing. iboats Link: Chrysler/ Force Impeller Kits - iboats.

But, I did find an exact match for the impeller for my engine at eBasicPower.com: Water Pump Impeller Kit Chrysler Force.

But it doesn't come with any gaskets, unless those two thin metal sheet objects are the gaskets. Hopefully the housing does not need to be changed, its an extra $39 for the kit with the water pump housing: Water Pump Kit Chrysler Force | Housing FK1069

Any thoughts?

To Johnbottsr:

Do you have a link to that step-by-step instructions you used for your 150HP?

Thanks,
- cpt. tdawg

Re: 1986 Force 85 HP Outboard - Will not start no spark

My pump housings are almost 25 years old.
It would have to be in REALLLLY bad shape to HAVE to change it.
The impeller doesn't come with gaskets.
There isin't one under the housing.
There is one under the stainess wear plate.It shouldn't need changing unless you take it off and rip it?