Coating Plywood Storage Box ????

cootersplace

Seaman
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Messages
68
Using 1/2" marine plywood for an 8' rod box, will be covering it with outdoor carpet,would like to coat it before covering it to preserve it better. What do ya'll recommend ? Is there such a thing as marine clear polyurthane? Thanx in advance for the help. Cooter :confused:
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: Coating Plywood Storage Box ????

If you want long term protection and stability of the plywood, coat it generously(extra application to all open endgrains) with the Rot Docs CPES penetrating epoxy. Then just after it becomes tack free but b4 24 hours have passed apply your favorite poly or varnish. let it all cure/dry for a week then glue on your carpet.
 

cootersplace

Seaman
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Messages
68
Re: Coating Plywood Storage Box ????

Who carries that Rot Doc stuff ?? Any idea where I can find it in Fl. ?? Thanx Cooter<br /><br /> :)
 

Hooty

Rear Admiral
Joined
Oct 2, 2001
Messages
4,496
Re: Coating Plywood Storage Box ????

Here's an article, I thought was interesting, about preventing wood rot.<br /><br />c/6<br />Hooty<br /><br />Chemotherapy for Rot<br />by Dave Carnell<br />Once rot gets a toehold in wood it is difficult to cure completely--- it is like a cancer. Digging out the rotted wood will still leave spores and water in the sound wood. After you fill in the cavity with something like epoxy, the rot continues to flourish underneath. Products promoted to make rotted wood sound and stop rot penetrate only until they meet water, with which they do not mix. Under the solid repair rotting goes on. With one exception (more later), the commercial products sold to treat dry wood to prevent rot are completely ineffective against established rot in wet wood because they are dissolved in petroleum solvents and oil and water do not mix.<br /><br />There are two commonly available inexpensive materials that will kill rot in wood and prevent its recurrence. First, there are borates (borax-boric acid mixtures) which have an established record in preventing rot in new wood and in killing rot organisms and wood-destroying insects in infested wood. Second, there is ethylene glycol, most readily available as auto antifreeze-coolant. Glycol is toxic to the whole spectrum of organisms from staphylococcus bacteria to mammals. All of the published material on its effectiveness against wood-destroying fungi and insects that I am aware of is the result of my investigations over the past 15 years.<br /><br />Both borate solutions and glycol penetrate dry and wet wood well because they are water-soluble; in fact, penetration by glycol is especially helped by its extreme hygroscopicity-its strong attraction for water. For both, the fact that they are water-soluble means they are not permanent solutions to rot in wood that is contnually exposed to water-below the waterline and in ground-where they will eventually be extracted-dissolved out.<br /><br />I first was interested in glycol as a wood-stabilizing agent, where it is in many ways superior to polethylene glycol (PEG), and it was during this work that I realized the useful effect of glycol on organisms, though I was pretty dense in interpreting the first experiment.<br /><br />The ladies immerse the stems of greenery such as magnolia branches in glycerin to keep them green. Glycol is very similar to glycerin in all its physical properties and much cheaper, so I stuck a magnolia branch in antifreeze. The next day it was brown. After the third attempt I tumbled to the fact that the glycol was killing the greenery.<br /><br />This was the reason that glycol never replaced glycerin in applications such as a humectant for tobacco and an ingredient of cosmetics and pharmaceutical ointments, though it had all the desirable physical properties.<br /><br />I had two 2" thick slabs of a 14" diameter hickory tree that had just been cut. I treated one with antifreeze and left one untreated. I was looking at wood stabilization, not rot prevention. After about six months stored inside my shop the untreated control was not only cracked apart, but it was sporting a great fungal growth, while the treated slab was clean.<br /><br />The local history museum wanted to exhibit two "turpentine trees", longleaf pines that had many years ago been gashed to harvest the sap that made everything from turpentine to pine tar. The trees delivered to us after cutting were infested with various beetles and had some fungal growth. I treated them with antifreeze outside under a plastic tarpaulin every few days for three weeks. They were then free of insects and fungus and have remained so after being moved inside and installed in an exhibit over four years ago.<br /><br />I took three pieces from a rotting dock float that were covered with a heavy growth of fungus, lichens, etc. I treated one with antifreeze painted on with a brush, the second with a water solution containing 23% borates (as B2O3), and left the third untreated as a control. They were left exposed outdoors and were rained on the first night. By the next morning the growth on the antifreeze-treated piece was definitely browning and the borate-treated piece showed slight browning. After two months exposure to the weather the growth was dead on the antifreeze- and borate-treated pieces and flourishing on the control.<br /><br />I have a simple flat-bottomed skiff built of plywood and white pine, which has little resistance to rot. After ten years some rot developed in one of the frames. It may have begun in the exposed end grain. It consumed the side frame, part of the bottom frame, and part of a seat brace fastened to the side frame. The plywood gusset joining the side frame to the bottom frame was not attacked. I excised the rotted wood, saturated all with ethylene glycol antifreeze to kill all the rot organisms, and there has been no further deterioration in four more years afloat with wet bilges. I have not replaced any pieces, as I am building another boat that can replace it; that is more fun, anyway.<br /><br />I have a 60+ year old case of the fungus infection known as "athlete's foot". Many years ago it infected the toenails extensively. The whole thing was pretty grotesque. My dermatologist and druggist both assured me there is no known cure. About six years ago I started using antifreeze applied under the nails with a medicine dropper about every five days. The professionals are technically right. I have not completely cured it, but the nails have grown out pink and thinned almost to the ends and I never have any trouble with blistering, peeling, or itching between the toes as I had had for six decades. No drug company is going to have any interest in this because the information has been in the public domain for so long that there is no opportunity for any proprietary advantage. The various wood-rotting organisms cannot be anywhere near as tough.<br /><br />Glycol by itself has one big advantage over solutions of borates in either water or glycol. Glycol pentrates rapidly through all paint, varnish, and oil finishes (except epoxy and polyurethanes) without lifting or damaging those finishes in any way. You can treat all of the wood of your boat without removing any finish. The dyes in glycol antifreeze are so weak that they do not discolor even white woods. Once bare wood has been treated with glycol or the borate solutions and become dry to the touch it can be finished or glued. If a borate solution leaves white residues on the surface, it will have to be washed off with water and the surface allowed to dry.<br /><br />This is my preferred process to treat rot. Once you find soft wood or other evidence of rot, soak it with antifreeze even if you cannot do anything else at the moment. Paint it on or spray it on with a coarse spray. Avoid fine mistlike spraying because it increases the likelihood that you will breathe in unhealthy amounts of glycol. Put it on surfaces well away from the really damaged wood, too. Use glycol lavishly on the suspect wood, which will readily absorb 10-20% of its weight of antifreeze.<br /><br />Next dig out wood that is rotted enough to be weak. Add more glycol to wet the exposed wood thoroughly. Then add the 25% borate solution of the recipe below so long as it will soak in in no more than 2-3 hours. Then fill in the void with epoxy putty and/or a piece of sound treated wood as required. The reasons I use borates at all are: 1) it is a belt-and-suspenders approach to a virulent attack, and 2) over a long period glycol will evaporate from the wood; especially, in areas exposed directly to the sun and the high temperatures that result.<br /><br />If there is any question about water extracting the glycol or the borates, you can retreat periodically with glycol on any surface, painted or bare, and with borate solutions on bare wood.<br /><br />Glycol's toxicity to humans is low enough that it has to be deliberately ingested (about a half cup for a 150 lb. human); many millions of gallons are used annually with few precautions and without incident. It should not be left where children or pets can get at it, as smaller doses would harm them, and they may be attracted by its reported sweet taste that I have confirmed by accident. The lethal dose of borates is smaller than of glycol, but the bitter taste makes accidental consumption less likely. <br /><br />Borate Wood Preservatives<br />Commercial and Home-Brewed <br /><br />Tim-Bor®: about $3/lb. plus shipping.<br /><br />Ship-Bor®: Same as Tim-Bor®; $19.95/lb. plus $2 shipping.<br /><br />Bora-Care®: $70/gal. plus shipping.<br /><br />Home-Brew Water Solution of Borates: Based on U.S. Navy spec. of 60% borax-- 40% boric acid (this ratio gives the maximum solubility of borates in water); 65% water, 20 %borax, 15% boric acid; 15.8% borates; borax costs 54 cents/lb. (supermarket), boric acid costs about $4/lb. in drug stores (sometimes boric acid roach poison, 99% boric acid, is cheaper in discount stores); equiv. to Tim-Bor® or Ship-Bor® at 30 cents/lb. To make this solution mix the required quantities and heat until dissolved. The boric acid, in particular, dissolves slowly. This solution is stable (no crystals) overnight in a refrigerator (40°F.), so can be used at temperatures at least as low as 40°F. <br /><br />Home-Brew Glycol Solution of Borates: 50% glycol antifreeze, 28% borax, 22% boric acid. To make a stable solution you mix the ingredients and heat till boiling gently. Boil off water until a candy thermometer shows 260°F. (This removes most of the water of crystallization in the borax.) This solution is stable at 40°F and has a borate content of 26%. With antifreeze at $6/gal. and borax and boric acid prices as above, this costs about $15/gal.<br /><br /> <br /> <br /> <br />If you experience a problem, or want to send us a suggestion, email mailto:peter@boatbuilding.com?subject=boatbuilding.com<br />© 1997 - 2001 Global Boatbuilding Community. All rights reserved. <br /> <br /> <br />| home | add | modify | new | popular | recommended | random | search | <br /> <br /> <br />boatbuilding.community; boat building, design, and repair resource<br />for amateur and professional custom boatbuilders
 

JasonJ

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
4,163
Re: Coating Plywood Storage Box ????

We use commercial grade Tim-Bor to pretreat new construction against Carpenter Ants and also to destroy any other wood destroying organism. You have to be licensed to get the version we use, but it works extremely well. The chemical name is Trisodiumoctiborate, if you can get any products with a good percentage of that as the active ingredient, you will be good to go.<br /><br />Of course, the alternative is paint. I built my center console out of 1/2 inch ACX and coated the living heck out of it with a good exterior grade polyurethane paint. You just need to made sure you really pile it on on the end cuts, thats more susceptable to taking on water. Good luck....
 

cootersplace

Seaman
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Messages
68
Re: Coating Plywood Storage Box ????

MAN, thats one heck of an article. I really appreciate all the effort you forum members put into helping your fellow members. I really do appreciate your efforts and time . Sincerely Dennis
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: Coating Plywood Storage Box ????

Cootersplace: My concern for your rod box would be simple delamination and seperation of the plywood before any rot would become a problem. To that end any of the varnishes or polyurethanes that you could use, stand alone, would only slightly delay the inevitable. The process would only be speeded up by using carpet, which would keep water held against the wood for prolonged periods of time.<br /><br />If you want to do the project once only and be able to forget about it, consider my post above.<br />Below is a link to the Rot Doc. CPES is not cheap, but buy the two gallon set up. It goes along way especially for lots of smaller projects. I've even used it on my wheelbarrow handles (amongst other small projects) to keep them from checking and splitting. As you are starting with new wood you may even treat it with the borax/boric acid solution, then let it dry thorougly before applying the CPES.<br /><br /> http://www.rotdoctor.com/
 

BillP

Captain
Joined
Aug 10, 2002
Messages
3,290
Re: Coating Plywood Storage Box ????

For the coating on your box I'd use any type epoxy resin. There is no need to buy high end resin for that use. Thin it 20% or so with acetone and go for it. Make sure you get the edges saturated. Do a thinned coat, let it sit for a few minutes to soak in and follow up with a full strengh coat. Let it dry and don't worry. If you screw into the wood, drill the pilot and saturate it with thinned resin before inserting the screw. If you want to go cheap then regular polyester finishing resin will work too...I've done it on ply boat hatchs and covering boards that went past my 5 yr ownership. <br /><br />Hey, that's a good article. His methods have been used for many years by old wood boat guys. In my experience he is right about the "CPES" type saturation methods. I'd only use it for coating and recommend anyone try a sample on rotted wood with a followup cut to see the actual results. Buyer beware of the advertising and testing info on a certain web site about saturation. One thing Caneel didn't mention is that rot spores are already in wood and get activated under the right temp and humidity. He was cutting the active ones out.
 

cootersplace

Seaman
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Messages
68
Re: Coating Plywood Storage Box ????

Thanx for the input . I have gotten alot of valuble help from here. Thanx Again Cooter
 
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