couple questions on my elec. shift

vipertech

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This is my second post on this forum and I just wanted to say this forum is awesome and the people on here are great. Any way's I have a 1977 lund 20' aluminum open bow with a omc i/o 302. I have been doing as much research as I possibly can. What I have found out is that the drive I have is not the most wanted system but its what's there and I am sticking with it. I would like to go over the entire system and replace any parts that are needed or could give me problems. The engine I am framillar with being a 302 but the rest is all new to me along with how the cooling system works on this. I started with the basics of replacing the gear oil and found water in both the top and bottom units. I found that I need to presurize them and check for leaks and would like to know what to look for exactly and would it be better to "bench test" them. Also there is some wear on both ball drives and wonder how much it too much? I was thinking of ordering a whole seal kit for the top and bottom. Is this a good idea and if so any reccomendations? Also what is normal wear for a prop.
 

wrench 3

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Re: couple questions on my elec. shift

I ran the exact same drive for ten years and really liked it. Although they are rather high maintenance. As maintenance you should replace the water pump impeller. Have a look at the splines on the drive shafts while your in there. The one through the water pump wares the most because it's a softer material. That one and the upper one are still available but the lower one is not. If you don't know when the drive was last resealed I'd do a complete reseal. The ball gears I would replace when worn about 1/4 the way through. They usually fail at about 1/2. But if you're replacing the seals it would be a good time to do the ball gears anyway.
Props don't normally wear. They get damaged. Minor damage along the edges can be tapped out with two hammers and any rough edges filed smooth. Any nicks over 1/4" deep and any distortion that you can't tap out will cause performance and vibration problems.
Judging from the last question, I assume that you are unfamiliar with boats. So hears a quick over view of the cooling system. There is a supply pump in the out drive that pushes the water up through the pivots on the drive to the thermostat housing. The thermostat supplies whatever water to the engine that it needs. The engine has it's own circulating pump. The excess water and the expelled water from the engine is routed through the exhaust manifolds to cool them and then mixed with the exhaust and back into the lake etc. If you have a closed cooling system, the water is pumped up into a heat exchanger and then to the exhaust manifolds. The engine uses the heat exchanger as its radiator and uses a standard antifreeze coolant mix.
 

southkogs

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Re: couple questions on my elec. shift

Hey Viper - a coupla' quick points for you:

Treat the drive and engine a little separate at the moment. Have you started the system and tried shifting? Everything works (in a general sense) to move you forward, neutral and reverse? If not - don't try it just yet.

Make sure you change your lower unit gear oil with "Type C" for electric shift. If you don't, the system might not work. Upper gear case doesn't matter, but the lower needs to Type C.

Remove the drive from the boat (should go quick with an electric shift), and then separate the upper gear case from the lower (you have a manual, yes?). With the lower separated, you should be able to turn the ball gear on the upper and have the gears move reasonably easy. If so, you're probably moving free - replace your impeller (bottom of the upper gear case) and refill the lube.

On the lower - You should be able to test for resistance on the lower. The manual explains it, or one of the other guys can chime in - I'm lousy at this part so I don't want to give you too many instructions. As long as you can feel it's not locked up, I'd just try putting in some Type C and giving it a whirl.

You need to run water to your engine to run it in the driveway: Stringers had an option of one of these hookups for a garden hose-
OMCes_Hose.jpg
If you don't have one of these, some of the guys have hooked up a T to the hose just before the thermostat housing. On a Stringer water has to flow both to the stat and back down to the impeller ... it won't draw water up outta' a bucket or anything like that.

I would make sure the drive works before I did anything on the engine at all. Specifically, I'd make sure that lower unit shifts. Either way - start looking for a replacement drive just to have an extra around if you're gonna' keep her going.
 

vipertech

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Re: couple questions on my elec. shift

I ran the exact same drive for ten years and really liked it. Although they are rather high maintenance. As maintenance you should replace the water pump impeller. Have a look at the splines on the drive shafts while your in there. The one through the water pump wares the most because it's a softer material. That one and the upper one are still available but the lower one is not. If you don't know when the drive was last resealed I'd do a complete reseal. The ball gears I would replace when worn about 1/4 the way through. They usually fail at about 1/2. But if you're replacing the seals it would be a good time to do the ball gears anyway.
Props don't normally wear. They get damaged. Minor damage along the edges can be tapped out with two hammers and any rough edges filed smooth. Any nicks over 1/4" deep and any distortion that you can't tap out will cause performance and vibration problems.
Judging from the last question, I assume that you are unfamiliar with boats. So hears a quick over view of the cooling system. There is a supply pump in the out drive that pushes the water up through the pivots on the drive to the thermostat housing. The thermostat supplies whatever water to the engine that it needs. The engine has it's own circulating pump. The excess water and the expelled water from the engine is routed through the exhaust manifolds to cool them and then mixed with the exhaust and back into the lake etc. If you have a closed cooling system, the water is pumped up into a heat exchanger and then to the exhaust manifolds. The engine uses the heat exchanger as its radiator and uses a standard antifreeze coolant mix.
Thank you for responding. Yes I am a noob to owning a boat and am very excited to finally own one. The prop has some damage done to it and the ball gears are probably 1/4 way worn. So the top and lower unit do not share the same oil supply. Thats good to know. I have been searching around to find the correct seal kit along with the water prop. Can you reccomend a good place to purchase these from as I do not want to spend the time and money on cheap parts only to have to redo it. also should I replace the water pump impeller housing too? Thanks for taking the time to explain the cooling system. what parts can be had at the local auto parts store for this besides the alternator, starter and distributor. I went to buy type c oil and no luck so I will buy some online. I work as a diesel technician so i will grab some synthetic gear oil for the top unit and 15/40 oil for the motor due to its age im sure the thicker oil wouldnt hurt? What would be better in the drive straight 50w or 75/90?
 

Redrig

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Oct 13, 2009
Messages
849
Re: couple questions on my elec. shift

what parts can be had at the local auto parts store for this besides the alternator, starter and distributor

NEVER put those car parts on your boat, they are not the same. That can cause an explosion and ruin your boating weekend really fast.

use that link that Southkogs provided to get your part numbers, then google search them for the best deal.
 

vipertech

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Mar 5, 2013
Messages
53
Re: couple questions on my elec. shift

I ran the exact same drive for ten years and really liked it. Although they are rather high maintenance. As maintenance you should replace the water pump impeller. Have a look at the splines on the drive shafts while your in there. The one through the water pump wares the most because it's a softer material. That one and the upper one are still available but the lower one is not. If you don't know when the drive was last resealed I'd do a complete reseal. The ball gears I would replace when worn about 1/4 the way through. They usually fail at about 1/2. But if you're replacing the seals it would be a good time to do the ball gears anyway.
Props don't normally wear. They get damaged. Minor damage along the edges can be tapped out with two hammers and any rough edges filed smooth. Any nicks over 1/4" deep and any distortion that you can't tap out will cause performance and vibration problems.
Judging from the last question, I assume that you are unfamiliar with boats. So hears a quick over view of the cooling system. There is a supply pump in the out drive that pushes the water up through the pivots on the drive to the thermostat housing. The thermostat supplies whatever water to the engine that it needs. The engine has it's own circulating pump. The excess water and the expelled water from the engine is routed through the exhaust manifolds to cool them and then mixed with the exhaust and back into the lake etc. If you have a closed cooling system, the water is pumped up into a heat exchanger and then to the exhaust manifolds. The engine uses the heat exchanger as its radiator and uses a standard antifreeze coolant mix.

Hey Viper - a coupla' quick points for you:

Treat the drive and engine a little separate at the moment. Have you started the system and tried shifting? Everything works (in a general sense) to move you forward, neutral and reverse? If not - don't try it just yet.

Make sure you change your lower unit gear oil with "Type C" for electric shift. If you don't, the system might not work. Upper gear case doesn't matter, but the lower needs to Type C.

Remove the drive from the boat (should go quick with an electric shift), and then separate the upper gear case from the lower (you have a manual, yes?). With the lower separated, you should be able to turn the ball gear on the upper and have the gears move reasonably easy. If so, you're probably moving free - replace your impeller (bottom of the upper gear case) and refill the lube.

On the lower - You should be able to test for resistance on the lower. The manual explains it, or one of the other guys can chime in - I'm lousy at this part so I don't want to give you too many instructions. As long as you can feel it's not locked up, I'd just try putting in some Type C and giving it a whirl.

You need to run water to your engine to run it in the driveway: Stringers had an option of one of these hookups for a garden hose-
View attachment 185111
If you don't have one of these, some of the guys have hooked up a T to the hose just before the thermostat housing. On a Stringer water has to flow both to the stat and back down to the impeller ... it won't draw water up outta' a bucket or anything like that.

I would make sure the drive works before I did anything on the engine at all. Specifically, I'd make sure that lower unit shifts. Either way - start looking for a replacement drive just to have an extra around if you're gonna' keep her going.
Heres what I know so far. When I bought the boat the guy showed me that it went into forward and reverse. It did make a solid thump and he told me that was normal and that was confirmed in the first post. Im going to order a new pump. Seal kit for both top and lower. Im going to get some pics up tonight of the ball gears and propeller. I do have a manual but your above post described more of what to check for than any thing in it. Also negative on the hose hookup on the top right side of the drive. Going to the auto store to pick up a coolant flush kit to run the t fitting.
 

wrench 3

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Re: couple questions on my elec. shift

Hi vipertech:
I spent 12 years working on heavy trucks, so I have an idea where you're coming from.
Most automotive jobbers have catalogs for marine tune up parts, carb kits, sensors, relays etc. But make sure they are listed for marine use. The alternators and starters also have explosion protection built in. But your local auto electric rebuilder should be able to repair them if you do not feel comfortable doing it yourself.
I asked the rep from our oil supplier about engine oil and he said he uses 15W40 in his boat. The out drives use a 90 weight oil, but the marine gear lube has additives to better handle water intrusion. Make sure to use the type "C" in the lower unit or it's like putting hypoed lube in a roadranger and gumming up the synchronizer for the range selector.
 

southkogs

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Re: couple questions on my elec. shift

...When I bought the boat the guy showed me that it went into forward and reverse. It did make a solid thump and he told me that was normal and that was confirmed in the first post.
Missed that somewhere ... a "solid thump" is not normal for and electric shift going into gear. In both of them that I've owned you almost can't feel it go into gear unless your RPM's are cranked up. It's one of my favorite things about the drive - smooth shift and instant power. Watch that REAL carefully if it's really jammin' into gear.
 

vipertech

Seaman
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
53
Re: couple questions on my elec. shift

I ran the exact same drive for ten years and really liked it. Although they are rather high maintenance. As maintenance you should replace the water pump impeller. Have a look at the splines on the drive shafts while your in there. The one through the water pump wares the most because it's a softer material. That one and the upper one are still available but the lower one is not. If you don't know when the drive was last resealed I'd do a complete reseal. The ball gears I would replace when worn about 1/4 the way through. They usually fail at about 1/2. But if you're replacing the seals it would be a good time to do the ball gears anyway.
Props don't normally wear. They get damaged. Minor damage along the edges can be tapped out with two hammers and any rough edges filed smooth. Any nicks over 1/4" deep and any distortion that you can't tap out will cause performance and vibration problems.
Judging from the last question, I assume that you are unfamiliar with boats. So hears a quick over view of the cooling system. There is a supply pump in the out drive that pushes the water up through the pivots on the drive to the thermostat housing. The thermostat supplies whatever water to the engine that it needs. The engine has it's own circulating pump. The excess water and the expelled water from the engine is routed through the exhaust manifolds to cool them and then mixed with the exhaust and back into the lake etc. If you have a closed cooling system, the water is pumped up into a heat exchanger and then to the exhaust manifolds. The engine uses the heat exchanger as its radiator and uses a standard antifreeze coolant mix.

Hi vipertech:
I spent 12 years working on heavy trucks, so I have an idea where you're coming from.
Most automotive jobbers have catalogs for marine tune up parts, carb kits, sensors, relays etc. But make sure they are listed for marine use. The alternators and starters also have explosion protection built in. But your local auto electric rebuilder should be able to repair them if you do not feel comfortable doing it yourself.
I asked the rep from our oil supplier about engine oil and he said he uses 15W40 in his boat. The out drives use a 90 weight oil, but the marine gear lube has additives to better handle water intrusion. Make sure to use the type "C" in the lower unit or it's like putting hypoed lube in a roadranger and gumming up the synchronizer for the range selector.
I didnt think about the fact the marine oil will help with water intrusion. Im going to get some marine instead of the stuff I grabbed from work. I understand about the starter and the alt. Needing to be marine due to the fact they might cause a fire but what about plugs, wires, cap rotor etc? I have no problem ordering marine stuff but im in the middle of the desert and theres not alot of marine places around me. Went to cabellas the other day for type c and no luck so I bought some online. I think this weekend im going to head out east and check out bass pro shop to see what kind of goodies they have. Im going to see what I can get out of some places for marine as far as jobber goes but you know as well as I do most of that will probably be more automotive connections but hell im going to check out tomorrow as I didnt even think of that
 

vipertech

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Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
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Re: couple questions on my elec. shift

I ran the exact same drive for ten years and really liked it. Although they are rather high maintenance. As maintenance you should replace the water pump impeller. Have a look at the splines on the drive shafts while your in there. The one through the water pump wares the most because it's a softer material. That one and the upper one are still available but the lower one is not. If you don't know when the drive was last resealed I'd do a complete reseal. The ball gears I would replace when worn about 1/4 the way through. They usually fail at about 1/2. But if you're replacing the seals it would be a good time to do the ball gears anyway.
Props don't normally wear. They get damaged. Minor damage along the edges can be tapped out with two hammers and any rough edges filed smooth. Any nicks over 1/4" deep and any distortion that you can't tap out will cause performance and vibration problems.
Judging from the last question, I assume that you are unfamiliar with boats. So hears a quick over view of the cooling system. There is a supply pump in the out drive that pushes the water up through the pivots on the drive to the thermostat housing. The thermostat supplies whatever water to the engine that it needs. The engine has it's own circulating pump. The excess water and the expelled water from the engine is routed through the exhaust manifolds to cool them and then mixed with the exhaust and back into the lake etc. If you have a closed cooling system, the water is pumped up into a heat exchanger and then to the exhaust manifolds. The engine uses the heat exchanger as its radiator and uses a standard antifreeze coolant mix.

Missed that somewhere ... a "solid thump" is not normal for and electric shift going into gear. In both of them that I've owned you almost can't feel it go into gear unless your RPM's are cranked up. It's one of my favorite things about the drive - smooth shift and instant power. Watch that REAL carefully if it's really jammin' into gear.

Sorry I meant in my very first post over on the restoration forum. I am going to have to service everything and replace any deffective parts while im in there and take it out on the water to give a very detailed decription . On where im at on the shifting as it has already been 3 weeks since I picked her up. I didnt state this on the resto forum but I paid $600 for the boat and trailer with lifetime registration on the trailer. Also i am posting this on my phone and its the biggest PITA ever.
 

wrench 3

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Re: couple questions on my elec. shift

What are you doing with a boat in the middle of the desert? Never mind that.
Distributor caps are different(vapor proof, positive hold downs, brass contacts). Spark plug wires are longer(they run down the back and along under the manifolds). The spark plugs are the same style but are usually a different heat range. A lot of the after market marine engine parts are manufactured by the same companies as the automotive parts. So the jobbers should be able to order them through their regular channels.
Make sure your idle speed isn't above specs or you may brake a clutch spring.
 

southkogs

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Re: couple questions on my elec. shift

If you've got a NAPA store nearby, they can usually locate some OMC parts for you too. Plugs, wires and rotor shouldn't be bad to use standard stuff from the auto parts store - just watch your wire lengths, they'll be different in the boat.

At $600 for the rig, I'd fight it out too for a while. I did the same with my setup (got it for $500) and I've been running for 3 years now on less than $3k including registration and fuel. I've replaced the head gasket and gotten a spare drive for it, too. It just takes patience and effort to get it done. I've set a dollar figure (based on usage) to call it quits if I need to. At this point, this boat suits me and I like it ... so, I'm stickin' with my ole' OMC for a while.
 

Clete_t

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Mar 26, 2013
Messages
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Re: couple questions on my elec. shift

Hope you guys are still around! I've just got into "the same boat" recently! 1974 165HP OMC electric shift. Luckily I was able to see it run and have now taken it out twice with alot of fun. Now after reading this forum I am taking steps to try to keep it going. I've looked at the manual. I've ordered type "c" for the lower unit and I have identified the drain and fill plugs, I plan on using the type "c" for the upper unit as I have identified the drain and check dipstick. I see the plug on the transom_drive, but where is the drain plug??? is there one. I can't find it...Is it OK to use type "C" in all the units??
 

southkogs

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Re: couple questions on my elec. shift

Hope you guys are still around! I've just got into "the same boat" recently! 1974 165HP OMC electric shift. Luckily I was able to see it run and have now taken it out twice with alot of fun. Now after reading this forum I am taking steps to try to keep it going. I've looked at the manual. I've ordered type "c" for the lower unit and I have identified the drain and fill plugs, I plan on using the type "c" for the upper unit as I have identified the drain and check dipstick. I see the plug on the transom_drive, but where is the drain plug??? is there one. I can't find it...Is it OK to use type "C" in all the units??
Welcome aboard Clete:

Start a new thread for questions as opposed to adding to an existing one - you didn't break any rules on this thread (except hijacking maybe :D) but you'll get more answers by starting a new thread.

You only need to use type C in your lower ... the upper can be the regular stuff. I'm not sure which drain you're asking about - lower unit has two "screws" on the port side and the upper has the top "dip stick" and a drain on the starboard side.
 

wrench 3

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Re: couple questions on my elec. shift

I see the plug on the transom_drive, but where is the drain plug??? is there one.

They were a little strange that way. the transom housing has a fill/level plug but no drain plug. I guess you would have to remove the bearing retainer to drain it if you got water in it, but then again in that case you would want to reseal it any way. There isn't any recommended service on it, other than checking the oil.
 

Clete_t

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Re: couple questions on my elec. shift

Thanks so much for the help! I got my type "c" oil and changed the lower. I got extra so I went ahead and changed the upper uni t with the "c" also. Just wanted to confirm that this is ok. Looks like I've got some work ahead of me as it appears there was water in the oil when I drained it. I'm going to take her out one more time and recheck the oil just to be sure it's necessary as I was hoping to get thru the summer w/o taking everything apart. Hey viper, did you get you seals and impeller replaced? How involved was it? I'm afraid I'm going to need new ball gears also. Reading through the manual this looks pretty involved with the need for special gauges and tools. I took a pic of the fill plug iwas referring to and will post apic when I can, I'm still wondering if I need to put oil in it. Any thoughts appreciated. Also, why is it called a stringer? Difference between electric drive and omc 800? Thanks again!
 

wrench 3

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Re: couple questions on my elec. shift

The electric shift listed type "C" for both upper and lower units, but it's the same upper gear case as the 800, so take your choice. The transom housing should be filled with oil to the plug level. There is also a fill plug on the port side of the clutch housing for the tilt. It should be filled with 30 weight oil.
To change the ball gears, the only special tools you need is a puller or press to remove the gears and a torque wrench. You won't need shim gauges if you are only replacing the ball gears and seals. You just re-install the same shims.
They were nicknamed a stringer because the drive mounts to the boat stringers instead of the transom. The electric shift used electro-magnetic clutches to shift gears. The 800 used a sliding dog clutch like most outboards and a cable shift.
 
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