Boat Show in CA - Glastron GLS 195 vs. GT205 vs. Four Winns H210

Sandi_k

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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So we spent the day at the Sacramento boat show yesterday, so we could get an idea about sizing, comfort, options, and pricing on a bowrider for the two of us.

We've had PWCs for a decade, and we now have a place with a dock and a Hydrohoist (that will handle up to 4500 lbs).

By the end of the day, there were three boats that seemed to be good values and good layouts.

Boat #1 : Glastron GLS 195. 2012 model year. On the floor for $30K. Had a Volvo Penta engine, V8, 220 hp rating. This boat was nicely equipped, including a depth finder, pop out cleats, integrated cooler. Single axle trailer. It also included the tank with a shower for rinsing off feet, which would be a nice feature.

Boat #2: Glastron GT205, 2012 model year. On the floor for $28K. Had the Volvo Penta engine, V8, 220 hp as well. This boat was slightly less optioned, with fixed cleats, no depth finder, a cooler for a 6 pack, but an extended bolt-on swim deck and a tandem axle for the trailer.

Boat #3: Four Winns H210, 2012 model year. Asking $40K. This has the same 5.0 liter Volvo Penta, but its output is 270 hp. Nicely set up - storage was more nicely integrated, the "fit and finish" was nicer, the trailer has a tandem axle instead of single, the upholstery had a more substantial feel.

We know that the Four Winns is considered a higher grade of boat. But I'm unsure why we'd spend $10K more for it. All of them have 2 year warranties on the engine and drive train, and it's the same dealer. Also, we're wondering if we can get 270 hp out of the Glastron boats, since the bore, stroke and compression are all the same. but the hp is developed at different RPM. So is it an ECU tweak? Different head design? Different cam profiles? Different exhaust manifold? We're unclear as to how the additional hp is generated.

Our intended use is just cruising in freshwater lakes, occasional tubing, occasional ocean trips. Advice and feedback would be helpful. Thank you!
 

jkust

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Re: Boat Show in CA - Glastron GLS 195 vs. GT205 vs. Four Winns H210

So we spent the day at the Sacramento boat show yesterday, so we could get an idea about sizing, comfort, options, and pricing on a bowrider for the two of us.

We've had PWCs for a decade, and we now have a place with a dock and a Hydrohoist (that will handle up to 4500 lbs).

By the end of the day, there were three boats that seemed to be good values and good layouts.

Boat #1 : Glastron GLS 195. 2012 model year. On the floor for $30K. Had a Volvo Penta engine, V8, 220 hp rating. This boat was nicely equipped, including a depth finder, pop out cleats, integrated cooler. Single axle trailer. It also included the tank with a shower for rinsing off feet, which would be a nice feature.

Boat #2: Glastron GT205, 2012 model year. On the floor for $28K. Had the Volvo Penta engine, V8, 220 hp as well. This boat was slightly less optioned, with fixed cleats, no depth finder, a cooler for a 6 pack, but an extended bolt-on swim deck and a tandem axle for the trailer.

Boat #3: Four Winns H210, 2012 model year. Asking $40K. This has the same 5.0 liter Volvo Penta, but its output is 270 hp. Nicely set up - storage was more nicely integrated, the "fit and finish" was nicer, the trailer has a tandem axle instead of single, the upholstery had a more substantial feel.

We know that the Four Winns is considered a higher grade of boat. But I'm unsure why we'd spend $10K more for it. All of them have 2 year warranties on the engine and drive train, and it's the same dealer. Also, we're wondering if we can get 270 hp out of the Glastron boats, since the bore, stroke and compression are all the same. but the hp is developed at different RPM. So is it an ECU tweak? Different head design? Different cam profiles? Different exhaust manifold? We're unclear as to how the additional hp is generated.

Our intended use is just cruising in freshwater lakes, occasional tubing, occasional ocean trips. Advice and feedback would be helpful. Thank you!

So the 220hp v8's are carbed and have been banned by the EPA. They are allowed to sell the remaining stock and that's it. I'm actually suprised California is allowing the sale of even the remaining stock of that engine. The 270HP variety then is a Multi Port Fuel injected set up known as MPI. It has been around since the 2002 model year so just over a decade. If I was to buy a new boat which would never happen even with a gun to my head because you can get a superior boat in that range of prices, slightly used, I'd insist on the MPI variety. The MPI then presumably has a catalytic converter which was another EPA requirement that adds to the cost. As for spending the 10k more, the engine upgrade alone im betting is 3 or 4k of that 10k. If you are unaware of the difference between those two engines...you certainly are not up to speed on even the basics here and so you've come to the right place.
 

Sandi_k

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Re: Boat Show in CA - Glastron GLS 195 vs. GT205 vs. Four Winns H210

So the 220hp v8's are carbed and have been banned by the EPA. They are allowed to sell the remaining stock and that's it. I'm actually suprised California is allowing the sale of even the remaining stock of that engine. The 270HP variety then is a Multi Port Fuel injected set up known as MPI. It has been around since the 2002 model year so just over a decade. If I was to buy a new boat which would never happen even with a gun to my head because you can get a superior boat in that range of prices, slightly used, I'd insist on the MPI variety. The MPI then presumably has a catalytic converter which was another EPA requirement that adds to the cost. As for spending the 10k more, the engine upgrade alone im betting is 3 or 4k of that 10k. If you are unaware of the difference between those two engines...you certainly are not up to speed on even the basics here and so you've come to the right place.

Thanks for the info. We had asked about catalyzation, and the salesman didn't know. And it is NOWHERE in any of the brochures. We've been on the Volvo Penta site, and it's not mentioned there either. So you've answered one of our major questions.

And new vs. used: we planned on buying used, but availability from either of these manufacturers in CA is almost non-existent. There's one Glastron nearby, but it's a 2007 model, and only $3K less than new.

We bought our PWCs new, and we've maintained them meticulously. So given the availability vs. pricing issues for the models, we could see a point at which new might make sense, given our long-term ownership pattern.
 

jkust

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Re: Boat Show in CA - Glastron GLS 195 vs. GT205 vs. Four Winns H210

For fun go to one of the boat builder sites and when you custom build a boat, you will notice which engines aren't allowed in California. It will tell you right on the webpage when you go to the engine selector page. Of course the EPA regs are egregious and overstepping and California as you know is even more over the top. As for the used situation vs new, you could buy an eschelon or two up brand wise from someone who took great care of it but the simple fact is boats depreciate and you can get more for your money. The reason I got my sig boat way back when is because I could get the a top notch boat not even broken in yet for the cost of a lesser boat. The guy paid cash for it but life never let him use it.The nicer brand boat that is built for the more discerning, move up buyer will last possibly longer and wear better than your brand new boat. The hardware, circuitbreakers, heavier duty upholstery, plastic seat bases, etc, etc are just better. It's hard to just look and judge two boats side by side on the trailer since Glastron for instance is a cheap boat made to look like a nice boat on the surface. The Four Winns is a bonafide nice boat. As to the availability...it isn't always easy or quick to find exactly what you are looking for. High end brands at least here are rare to find and then the original owner needs to not be in the middle of an upsidedown loan for any boat.
My little rule of thumb when you are comparing boats is to go and look at the identical set up so say two 20 footers with the same base engine is to compare the dry weights. Almost always with a few exceptions, the more expensive the boat, the heavier it is. Ie my 18 footer is 3000lbs and the competition was between 2200 and 2700 for the identical set up. More expensive, better quality everything, fewer corners cut = heavier boat. Fast forward 11 years and true to it's build, it is still like a new boat with no excuses. I'll add to that though that the poor economy has made so some higher end boat brands now offer a cheap line of boats so some of the rules of thumb are a little scattered. Also Cats are pretty new and undesirable so to me that lends more weight to the used with MPI engine.
 

tazrig

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1,752
Re: Boat Show in CA - Glastron GLS 195 vs. GT205 vs. Four Winns H210

So we spent the day at the Sacramento boat show yesterday, so we could get an idea about sizing, comfort, options, and pricing on a bowrider for the two of us.

We've had PWCs for a decade, and we now have a place with a dock and a Hydrohoist (that will handle up to 4500 lbs).

By the end of the day, there were three boats that seemed to be good values and good layouts.

Boat #1 : Glastron GLS 195. 2012 model year. On the floor for $30K. Had a Volvo Penta engine, V8, 220 hp rating. This boat was nicely equipped, including a depth finder, pop out cleats, integrated cooler. Single axle trailer. It also included the tank with a shower for rinsing off feet, which would be a nice feature.

Boat #2: Glastron GT205, 2012 model year. On the floor for $28K. Had the Volvo Penta engine, V8, 220 hp as well. This boat was slightly less optioned, with fixed cleats, no depth finder, a cooler for a 6 pack, but an extended bolt-on swim deck and a tandem axle for the trailer.

Boat #3: Four Winns H210, 2012 model year. Asking $40K. This has the same 5.0 liter Volvo Penta, but its output is 270 hp. Nicely set up - storage was more nicely integrated, the "fit and finish" was nicer, the trailer has a tandem axle instead of single, the upholstery had a more substantial feel.

We know that the Four Winns is considered a higher grade of boat. But I'm unsure why we'd spend $10K more for it. All of them have 2 year warranties on the engine and drive train, and it's the same dealer. Also, we're wondering if we can get 270 hp out of the Glastron boats, since the bore, stroke and compression are all the same. but the hp is developed at different RPM. So is it an ECU tweak? Different head design? Different cam profiles? Different exhaust manifold? We're unclear as to how the additional hp is generated.

Our intended use is just cruising in freshwater lakes, occasional tubing, occasional ocean trips. Advice and feedback would be helpful. Thank you!


As stated above there is a big quality difference between a new glastron and a new four winns. A fuel injected engine will get almost 2 times better fuel economy over a carbed model. I'm not a fan of the new catylized engines either as each one runs about $1200 - $1500 to replace (no one knows how long they will last as it's new technology) and you have 2 per motor. A 2 or 3 year old boat without them would be much preferred but if you want new thats your choice. I would go with the Four Winns because of the fuel economy but most importantly the build quality. If you truly understand and can appreciate quality along with being able to afford it. There really isn't a choice. The frame of the boat, the electronics, the metals and plastics used are just of a higher grade and designed to last longer and be more trouble free. Also a tandem axle trailer is much gentler to the hull of the boat and handles better when going down the road.
 

MarkSee

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Re: Boat Show in CA - Glastron GLS 195 vs. GT205 vs. Four Winns H210

Advice and feedback would be helpful.

Yep, spending $10k more does not seem worth it for the FW.

Did you happen to ask them what the 2013 models of the Glastrons would cost?

You really might want to get on the Glastron site and for fun run through what a brand new 2013 boat would cost and your should come up with around $4-5k or so more than what they are saying it will cost you for a 2012; right on the site they show discounts.

I find it interesting that the "left-over" 2012 boats are all with the VP package non are Mercruiser powered; do you know why?
Are you open to Merc. or are you looking at only VP? If you were to order a new boat, both are offered.

Based upon what the Glastron site shows, ordering a new boat with the 270 hp motor is only $1300 more than the 225 hp motor.
At that price difference, not sure who would buy the smaller hp motor when you already spending $31k+ already.

Unless you really want a non-catalyzed engine, seems like getting a 2013 for slightly more might be better or at least see if you can get other stuff thrown in on the 2012 models.

Here's link with a little info on the VP 225 engine:
Volvo Penta V8-225 Inboard, Sterndrive, Control System 2013 Engine Test / Reviews Videos, Specs, Fast Facts, Captain reports | BoatTEST.com

Mark
 

Slip Away

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Re: Boat Show in CA - Glastron GLS 195 vs. GT205 vs. Four Winns H210

Something not quite right with the OP's post. If the boats had the "new" VP V8. it is a catalysed engine, it is a 5.7L engine, not 5.0L and it has 225HP, not 220 hp.

Volvo Penta created the new V8-225 engine to provide a catalyzed alternative to the 4.3 L V-6 225-hp engines

And yes, you can get the 270HP 5.0L Volvo penta V8 in the Glastron. It will be appreciably faster than the Four Winns with the same engine, if that matters. Also, for 2012, their were no 220HP V8 engines offered by any sterndrive manufacturer. Only the 225HP(4.3L) V6 and 270HP (5.0L) V8 for VP and 225HP V6 and 260HP V8 from Mercruiser.
 

RotaryRacer

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Re: Boat Show in CA - Glastron GLS 195 vs. GT205 vs. Four Winns H210

Glastrons and Four Winns are made in the same factory.

Rec Boat Holdings has positioned Four Winns as the up market product and the Glastron as a budget product. BUT, I think the Glastrons are very well built and very well appointed. I think they have improved substantially since they were taken over the RBH.
 

Sandi_k

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Messages
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Re: Boat Show in CA - Glastron GLS 195 vs. GT205 vs. Four Winns H210

As stated above there is a big quality difference between a new glastron and a new four winns. A fuel injected engine will get almost 2 times better fuel economy over a carbed model. I'm not a fan of the new catylized engines either as each one runs about $1200 - $1500 to replace (no one knows how long they will last as it's new technology) and you have 2 per motor.

I thought that they'd been in use for a decade now? And we're not asking about a carbureted model - all of them at the boat show had FI.

A 2 or 3 year old boat without them would be much preferred but if you want new thats your choice.

As I said, we've found 8 boats within 500 miles that meet our criteria - 270 hp, less than 100 hours, between 18-22 feet, and either Glastron, 4 Winns, Monterey or Chapparal. So I'm not sure I'd say it's much of a choice, since we're talking a difference in some instances of less than $3K between new and used.

I would go with the Four Winns because of the fuel economy but most importantly the build quality. If you truly understand and can appreciate quality along with being able to afford it. There really isn't a choice. The frame of the boat, the electronics, the metals and plastics used are just of a higher grade and designed to last longer and be more trouble free. Also a tandem axle trailer is much gentler to the hull of the boat and handles better when going down the road.

Yes, we'd prefer the tandem trailer for sure. In terms of the build quality, that's part of what we're trying to get a sense of. Some people say that Glastron and Four Winns are comparable quality since they're built in the same factory; others say that there's a noticeable quality difference between the two, with very little evidence. When we examined them at the show, there were details/niceties about the Four Winns that definitely appealed - better use of the storage under the bow seats; heat shields between the engine and the storage under the bench seating aft; but the question is whether that's worth an extra $10K in the new market.

Sandi
 

jkust

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Re: Boat Show in CA - Glastron GLS 195 vs. GT205 vs. Four Winns H210

I thought that they'd been in use for a decade now? And we're not asking about a carbureted model - all of them at the boat show had FI.



As I said, we've found 8 boats within 500 miles that meet our criteria - 270 hp, less than 100 hours, between 18-22 feet, and either Glastron, 4 Winns, Monterey or Chapparal. So I'm not sure I'd say it's much of a choice, since we're talking a difference in some instances of less than $3K between new and used.



Yes, we'd prefer the tandem trailer for sure. In terms of the build quality, that's part of what we're trying to get a sense of. Some people say that Glastron and Four Winns are comparable quality since they're built in the same factory; others say that there's a noticeable quality difference between the two, with very little evidence. When we examined them at the show, there were details/niceties about the Four Winns that definitely appealed - better use of the storage under the bow seats; heat shields between the engine and the storage under the bench seating aft; but the question is whether that's worth an extra $10K in the new market.

Sandi

While MPI has been in use since the 2002 engine model year...the Cats have been forced upon the market just a couple years back. So in essence there was a good 10 years of MPI without Cats included on them. I think we are just a bit confused on the 220hp 5.0 because that is a carb model (again criminalized by the EPA) but coincidently is the same hp that the 4.3 MPI puts out.
You mention comparable quality and what I will say is that the gap between the better brands and the cheaper ones is closing all the time at least on the trailer comparison. The ride and longevity over the years is the better tell. That said you seem to have noticed the surface differences quickly between the two brands built in the same factory. The better brands seem to hit the details much better. Are those details (and the unforseen ride differences, and longevity differences) worth an extra 7 grand or so. You would have to be the judge. I think about it like this...I see thousands of boats every year and possibly 1% of them are high end brands. People come up to me all the time at the ramps and comment on my boat as it is such an unsual site except on the big lakes. Many a time they told me they had their xyz brand because they didn't care to pay the premium for the better boat. They and their families are all still having fun. You also have to recognize that until you've owned boats in different price ranges (but the same sized boat) you probably won't even know that there are differences. People don't know what they don't know.
 

Slip Away

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Re: Boat Show in CA - Glastron GLS 195 vs. GT205 vs. Four Winns H210

The Four Winns H210 is a much heavier, bigger boat than either Glastron. So it will not be better on fuel consumption MPI vs. carb or not. also, the 5.0L is not the preferred engine for the H210. It really is the 300HP 5.7L with BIII outdrive. But with that engine(cat) it will be much more than $10K higher than the Glastrons.

For the money you are considering, a used Monterey 194FS or 204FS with the 5.0L V8 is for the money. Fit and finish is as high or higher than the Four Winns, and also a noteable upgrade from the Glastrons. Look and see what you think. For reference, the SX drive on VP engines has more drag than the Mercruiser Alpha 1, so WOT speeds are better with a 5.0L Mercruiser equipped boat, than with the 10 extra HP in the Volvo 5.0L.
 

Sandi_k

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Re: Boat Show in CA - Glastron GLS 195 vs. GT205 vs. Four Winns H210

Something not quite right with the OP's post. If the boats had the "new" VP V8. it is a catalysed engine, it is a 5.7L engine, not 5.0L and it has 225HP, not 220 hp.

Have you looked on the VP site? The site itself says 5.0, the downloadable PDF says 5.7.

The dealer's ad for the 2012 Four Winns is here; it includes a photo of the engine that clearly shows Volvo Penta 270 V8, and their title for the ad is "Very clean- LX package with 5.0 EFI".

Four Winns 2012 H210

For the Glastron GLS 195, the ad says:

ENGINE & DRIVETRAIN
Engine Make Volvo
Engine Model 5.0GIC/SX
Horsepower 225
Engine (Max) 270 hp
Fuel Type Gas
Fuel Tank Capacity 32 gal. (121 l)
Drive Type I/O

So yes, 225 hp for the 2012. But this is why we're asking - it's hard to get a straight answer on this, even from the VP site.

-S
 

Sandi_k

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Re: Boat Show in CA - Glastron GLS 195 vs. GT205 vs. Four Winns H210

The Four Winns H210 is a much heavier, bigger boat than either Glastron. So it will not be better on fuel consumption MPI vs. carb or not. also, the 5.0L is not the preferred engine for the H210. It really is the 300HP 5.7L with BIII outdrive. But with that engine(cat) it will be much more than $10K higher than the Glastrons.

Yes, we've been looking at dry weight comparisons, and fuel consumption stats. In our world, "there's no replacement for displacement." We're looking at a day range of ~ 130 miles, and at about 35 gallons, that's what we're used to doing with two jet skis. So there isn't a lot of sticker shock in terms of gas use. :D

For the money you are considering, a used Monterey 194FS or 204FS with the 5.0L V8 is the best value for the money. Fit and finish is as high or higher than the Four Winns, and also a noteable upgrade from the Glastrons. Look and see what you think. For reference, the SX drive on VP engines has more drag than the Mercruiser Alpha 1, so WOT speeds are better with a 5.0L Mercruiser equipped boat, than with the 10 extra HP in the Volvo 5.0L.

Thanks for this tidbit. Yes, both the 194FS and 204FS are on our list. There are two 194FS boats in the state, and one is very attractively priced and with low hours. Dh's BFF is planning to stop by the dealer and check it out on our behalf later in the week.

-S
 

Slip Away

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Re: Boat Show in CA - Glastron GLS 195 vs. GT205 vs. Four Winns H210

VP site is misleading. It has been since they released the new 225HP V8 last fall. That engine is a 5.7L "detuned" to 225HP.
 

jkust

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Re: Boat Show in CA - Glastron GLS 195 vs. GT205 vs. Four Winns H210

Have you looked on the VP site? The site itself says 5.0, the downloadable PDF says 5.7.

The dealer's ad for the 2012 Four Winns is here; it includes a photo of the engine that clearly shows Volvo Penta 270 V8, and their title for the ad is "Very clean- LX package with 5.0 EFI".

Four Winns 2012 H210

For the Glastron GLS 195, the ad says:

ENGINE & DRIVETRAIN
Engine Make Volvo
Engine Model 5.0GIC/SX
Horsepower 225
Engine (Max) 270 hp
Fuel Type Gas
Fuel Tank Capacity 32 gal. (121 l)
Drive Type I/O

So yes, 225 hp for the 2012. But this is why we're asking - it's hard to get a straight answer on this, even from the VP site.

-S

That would be confusing since they haven't made EFI in over a decade. MPI replaced EFI. Has there been an upgrade to MPI?
 

Sandi_k

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Re: Boat Show in CA - Glastron GLS 195 vs. GT205 vs. Four Winns H210

For those who say that dry weight is the way to tell quality, the Glastron GLS 215 (2013) is 3330 dry weight (21'4") and the Monterey 214 SS (length 21'8") is 3650 lbs; Monterey 204 FS (21'8") is 3100 lbs.

Which is better? And why? :D
 
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Sandi_k

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Re: Boat Show in CA - Glastron GLS 195 vs. GT205 vs. Four Winns H210

VP site is misleading. It has been since they released the new 225HP V8 last fall. That engine is a 5.7L "detuned" to 225HP.

OK, that sucks. I hate inaccurate mfr sites. ;)

We have a 2011 204FS, and I looked at ALL bowriders in this size. The best one was the Monterey. So we bought it, and are so happy with it. Fast, comfortable, and well built.

Um, "best" is subjective. Could you please elaborate on the criteria you used to reach this conclusion? Thanks.
 

Sandi_k

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Slip Away

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Re: Boat Show in CA - Glastron GLS 195 vs. GT205 vs. Four Winns H210

Decide which two boats you like best , then ask for our thoughts on the two you pick. Too much jumping around for me to keep pace .
 
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