Old Bayliner vs Newer Bayliner Express Cruiser quality ...

Hai Nhi · Feb 1, 2013

I've read that many people recommend against owning one of the older models. That the newer ones are better.

Can someone shines some light to why the old ones are bad, and to what year please?

I'm looking for a 24-26' express cruiser and see at least one 2004 Bayliner listed for $19k.

Would a well cared 2004 Bayliner worth a look against a better than average cared 2000 Four Winns, and a well cared 1997 Sea Ray? They all 24'. Assuming I could bargain them all to roughly the same price.

Thanks.

Nhi

tpenfield · Feb 1, 2013

Re: Old Bayliner vs Newer Bayliner Express Cruiser quality ...

IMHO, you should give some consideration to owning a brand of boat that is highly critiqued for its history of quality, regardless of what the facts may be.

Bayliners, of late seem to be much better in their build quality than their boats of old. I think they 'compete' better in the smaller boat market where price-point is more important.

When I buy a boat, I give some thought about - if I had to sell it - how easy would it be . . .

If you were buying a 20 footer, it would probably be different . . .

Bondo · Feb 1, 2013

Re: Old Bayliner vs Newer Bayliner Express Cruiser quality ...

Ayuh,.... I gotta agree with Ted,...

The biggest differences in Bayliners of old, vs; new, is Time...

Hai Nhi · Feb 1, 2013

Re: Old Bayliner vs Newer Bayliner Express Cruiser quality ...

True! Point taken!

Will aim at looking for better made brands.

I'm trying to check out 2-3 Sea Ray (a 1994 230, 1997 240, 1999 270) this week to see how it goes. Last time the Wellcraft didn't turn out that great. Engine was impressive, but the exterior is ok only, not pristine as described. Four Winns was okay. I checked out a 2001 Regal 2460 Commodore as well. Nothing wows me, except the Sundancer 310 ($62k)

tpenfield · Feb 1, 2013

Re: Old Bayliner vs Newer Bayliner Express Cruiser quality ...

Hai Nhi said:
True! Point taken!

Will aim at looking for better made brands.

I'm trying to check out 2-3 Sea Ray (a 1994 230, 1997 240, 1999 270) this week to see how it goes. Last time the Wellcraft didn't turn out that great. Engine was impressive, but the exterior is ok only, not pristine as described. Four Winns was okay. I checked out a 2001 Regal 2460 Commodore as well. Nothing wows me, except the Sundancer 310 ($62k)

Yup, Seller descriptions are like how a mother would describe their child. . .

I looked at a Formula 280, that was described to be "immaculate" . . . the thing was beat up. Seats were torn, speaker grills were smashed, cabin was beat up a bit. It did have new Livorsi gauges and controls, but that was about it.

Also, I have found that pictures on the web seem to hide a lot of blemishes that you come to find when you see the boat first hand.

Good luck with your searching, I think you are doing yourself a good service by looking at more boats.

Hai Nhi · Feb 1, 2013

Re: Old Bayliner vs Newer Bayliner Express Cruiser quality ...

I might be spending too much time on this thing.

Lost lots of sleep, delay work, no time to "take care" wifey, etc... Hope it'll all turn out great.

JoLin · Feb 1, 2013

Re: Old Bayliner vs Newer Bayliner Express Cruiser quality ...

Hai Nhi said:
I might be spending too much time on this thing. Lost lots of sleep, delay work, no time to "take care" wifey, etc... Hope it'll all turn out great.

I give you a lot of credit for all the research and questioning you've done so far, but if you're anal (like me and others here) you can reach a point of 'analysis paralysis', where you become so concerned with making a mistake, that you can't bring yourself to pull the trigger.

Boat ownership means surprises. It just goes with the territory. You look closely at a dozen boats, get the one you want checked out, buy it... and on your second voyage the fuel pump fails, or the bilge pump stops working, or the drain hose from the A/C clogs and the condensate pan dumps cold water on your feet at 3:00 in the morning (ask me how I know).

What hasn't 'wowed' you yet? Condition? Just keep looking- the one you want is out there. Is it the layout of the boat? In the 24-26' class, they're all gonna be damned similar in layout and amenities. If that's the reason you're hesitating, you might need to take a step back and re-evaluate your 'wants'.

My .02

JoLin · Feb 1, 2013

Re: Old Bayliner vs Newer Bayliner Express Cruiser quality ...

Bubba1235 said:
huh

Don't let facts get in the way???

I hesitated to get into that one, but what the hell...

He's talking about buyer perception when it comes time to resell, and it's a valid point. BUT... that Bayliner and trailer probably listed for over $70K in 2004. With an asking price of $19K the depreciation/reputation hit has already been taken. I for one would buy a well-equipped, good condition, late model Bayliner at the right price.

My .02

agallant80 · Feb 1, 2013

Re: Old Bayliner vs Newer Bayliner Express Cruiser quality ...

I agree with JoLIN. The boat already took its hit in terms of value. It will keep on going down in value but it will go down around the same rate as your payments assuming you have payments. At the end of the day any boat is worthless unless you are buying a 1M yacht(and even those loose value just much slower). I look at boats that are under 100K as cars. After 15-20 years they will be well used, not worth much, have issues and people will want the latest and greatest so they will be what they are worth which is at that point not very much.

tpenfield · Feb 1, 2013

Re: Old Bayliner vs Newer Bayliner Express Cruiser quality ...

Bubba1235 said:
huh

Don't let facts get in the way???

Yup, buyer perception and word of mouth (Internet). Facts may not matter when it comes to perception.

emilsr · Feb 1, 2013

Re: Old Bayliner vs Newer Bayliner Express Cruiser quality ...

JoLin said:
I give you a lot of credit for all the research and questioning you've done so far, but if you're anal (like me and others here) you can reach a point of 'analysis paralysis', where you become so concerned with making a mistake, that you can't bring yourself to pull the trigger.

Boat ownership means surprises. It just goes with the territory. You look closely at a dozen boats, get the one you want checked out, buy it... and on your second voyage the fuel pump fails, or the bilge pump stops working, or the drain hose from the A/C clogs and the condensate pan dumps cold water on your feet at 3:00 in the morning (ask me how I know).

What hasn't 'wowed' you yet? Condition? Just keep looking- the one you want is out there. Is it the layout of the boat? In the 24-26' class, they're all gonna be damned similar in layout and amenities. If that's the reason you're hesitating, you might need to take a step back and re-evaluate your 'wants'.

My .02

VERY valid points here.

Even brand new boats can come with surprises. Older, poorly cared for boats have LOTS of surprises, so pay now or pay later....but you'll pay either way once you catch the boat "bug".

Doing nothing is always an option, maybe even a smarter option, but then you wouldn't have a boat. :lol:

frantically relaxing · Feb 1, 2013

Re: Old Bayliner vs Newer Bayliner Express Cruiser quality ...

Some opinions in the "for what it's worth" category on the Bayliner subject...

--The Bigger the Bayliner, the Better it's Built (many would agree, many won't)

--When looking at used boats, the most important aspect isn't who built it, but who took care of it...

--Most people who complain about Bayliners have never owned one (personal experience)

--Most people I've talked to who own a Bayliner speak highly of it...

In 2003 during Labor Day weekend at Flaming Gorge, I conducted a "Bayliner" experiment: I took pictures of every different Bayliner I found. In 3 days, I had pictures of 114 different Bayliners. A screenshot of their thumbnails is below...

There were also many Sea Rays, Four Winns, Chaps, Cobalts, Crownlines, but in nowhere NEAR the numbers of Bayliners present. And I never saw ANY boats that appeared broken-down or being towed in. Which is a testament to ALL boats-- treat them right, they'll treat you right.

I suppose the main reason there's so many Bayliners is they're among the most inexpensive boats. And the only way I can explain why so many older ones are still around, is that they must not be as cheaply built as everyone thinks...?

Hai Nhi · Feb 1, 2013

Re: Old Bayliner vs Newer Bayliner Express Cruiser quality ...

emilsr said:
Doing nothing is always an option, maybe even a smarter option, but then you wouldn't have a boat. :lol:

I like I like. :lol:

Hai Nhi · Feb 1, 2013

Re: Old Bayliner vs Newer Bayliner Express Cruiser quality ...

Frantically Relaxing said:
Some opinions in the "for what it's worth" category on the Bayliner subject...

--The Bigger the Bayliner, the Better it's Built (many would agree, many won't)

--When looking at used boats, the most important aspect isn't who built it, but who took care of it...

--Most people who complain about Bayliners have never owned one (personal experience)

--Most people I've talked to who own a Bayliner speak highly of it...

In 2003 during Labor Day weekend at Flaming Gorge, I conducted a "Bayliner" experiment: I took pictures of every different Bayliner I found. In 3 days, I had pictures of 114 different Bayliners. A screenshot of their thumbnails is below...

View attachment 180563

There were also many Sea Rays, Four Winns, Chaps, Cobalts, Crownlines, but in nowhere NEAR the numbers of Bayliners present. And I never saw ANY boats that appeared broken-down or being towed in. Which is a testament to ALL boats-- treat them right, they'll treat you right.

I suppose the main reason there's so many Bayliners is they're among the most inexpensive boats. And the only way I can explain why so many older ones are still around, is that they must not be as cheaply built as everyone thinks...?

Thanks for the inputs.

QC · Feb 1, 2013

Re: Old Bayliner vs Newer Bayliner Express Cruiser quality ...

JoLin said:
I for one would buy a well-equipped, good condition, late model Bayliner at the right price.

Me too.

Edit: I like buying things that depreciate quickly used. And if there are a few diamonds that are priced like pebbles then even better. I have bought two SAABs for this reason. Loved them both. Great cars, and nobody believes it, so I get 'em cheap.

captain zac · Feb 1, 2013

Re: Old Bayliner vs Newer Bayliner Express Cruiser quality ...

My first boat was a Bayliner
only had the normal problems much like any boat

"I think that any boat no matter what brand is only as good as it is cared for"

Harry

10boats · Feb 1, 2013

Re: Old Bayliner vs Newer Bayliner Express Cruiser quality ...

Having sold Bayliners, 4 winns and others in the past for 20 years, I can say the Bayliners of the mid 80's and newer are good buys for the money. People put the brand down because they need to justify spending much more for another builder. Bayliner gives you more back as a percentage of the original price then any other company. They sometimes lack in the fit and finish but otherwise are very good boats.

Frank Acampora · Feb 1, 2013

Re: Old Bayliner vs Newer Bayliner Express Cruiser quality ...

My analogy is this: Bayliners are like the virgin girl in high school who has a "rep." Everybody talks about her without having the facts. Like an urban myth. Like Force engines with which smaller Bayliners were equipped. It is just the politically correct and popular thing to do. My experience with Bayliner was a 1990 something 20 foot cuddy with a 4.3 I/O. It was a very nice boat, well appointed, with good performance and hit 50 MPH top end. My only complaint was that there was a strange rumble/vibration at high speeds.

emilsr · Feb 1, 2013

Re: Old Bayliner vs Newer Bayliner Express Cruiser quality ...

In the mid 90's I traded a late 70's 17' Boston Whaler for a '90 17' Bayliner runabout. The two striking differences were (as mentioned) fit and finish, and the hardware; yacht quality on the Whaler, WalMart quality on the Bayliner. Neither of those things affected my enjoyment of the boat in the 2 years I owned it. None of the big pieces fell off and it didn't sink. Had a great time with it and lost very little money when I sold it.

Bayliner boats get LOTS of people on the water. That's a good thing. You don't have to have the fanciest boat on the lake to have a good time.

bruceb58 · Feb 1, 2013

Re: Old Bayliner vs Newer Bayliner Express Cruiser quality ...

Had a 1978 Bayliner and a 1987 Bayliner. The 87 Bayliner was very poorly constructed in comparison to the 78. Bayliners were built poorly into at least the early 90s.

Just so you know, I was the second owner but the boat was basically new when I bought it. I took very good care of it but had to do a lot of repair because of shoddy materials.

Not an urban myth.

Old Bayliner vs Newer Bayliner Express Cruiser quality ...

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