85' Four Winns Horizon 170 w/ Mercruiser 470

Hello all, I bought this boat off Craiglist in June of 2012 EXPECTING it to be a project boat and it was. I paid 400 for it and it was worth every penny. Let me start out saying that this was my first time dealing with any aquatic vesel and is kinda of a learning thing for me and my buddies. We retreived the boat and it was in shambles but he floor was still good in it along with all the fiberglass and trim/vinyl etc. It just needed a good cleaning and washing. I got a new sound system in it and had the engine running with a lot of TLC. I had all the wood trim pieces redone and made a new custom deck built. the engine looked to be in good condition but i started doing research and learned the 470 is one of the worst engines to deal with. we finally got onto the water and had it running good in the turns and had good RPMS and we opened it up on open water and the engine got to running extremly hot. I told the driver to keep going, and that was wrong. the engine started pouring out smoke/stema that smealt of coolant and finally cut out and we had to have a buddy with a jet ski tow us to shore. I got the boat home and let it cool and started breaking down the engine. the wiring had been badly burnt, spark plugs virtually non exsitant and i came to find a quarter size hole in the exhaust manifold, i had it fixed with a tig welder and replaced onto the engine block. I never replaced the wiring except with new sparks and wiring. Now the engine will turn over sometimes but wont fire. Im a little over 6 months in this project and cant decide between replacing the entire engine with a more reliable engine or just having the older one rebuilt. Sorry this is long but just want to share what i have gone through. Can you tell me more about the 470 and what i should do about replacement engines? Thanks -Chase Meador

Re: 85' Four Winns Horizon 170 w/ Mercruiser 470

Save yourself the frustration of messing with the future issue that more than likely are going to pop up with the 470 and get a good 3.0 to replace it. (donor boat)

Re: 85' Four Winns Horizon 170 w/ Mercruiser 470

Did you change the impeller in the outdrive?

Re: 85' Four Winns Horizon 170 w/ Mercruiser 470

we finally got onto the water and had it running good in the turns and had good RPMS and we opened it up on open water and the engine got to running extremly hot. I told the driver to keep going, and that was wrong. the engine started pouring out smoke/stema that smealt of coolant and finally cut out and we had to have a buddy with a jet ski tow us to shore



You are pretty much screwed.

Re: 85' Four Winns Horizon 170 w/ Mercruiser 470

Fourwinns 470 said:

Hello all, I bought this boat off Craiglist in June of 2012 EXPECTING it to be a project boat and it was. I paid 400 for it and it was worth every penny. Let me start out saying that this was my first time dealing with any aquatic vesel and is kinda of a learning thing for me and my buddies. We retreived the boat and it was in shambles but he floor was still good in it along with all the fiberglass and trim/vinyl etc. It just needed a good cleaning and washing. I got a new sound system in it and had the engine running with a lot of TLC. I had all the wood trim pieces redone and made a new custom deck built. the engine looked to be in good condition but i started doing research and learned the 470 is one of the worst engines to deal with. we finally got onto the water and had it running good in the turns and had good RPMS and we opened it up on open water and the engine got to running extremly hot. I told the driver to keep going, and that was wrong. the engine started pouring out smoke/stema that smealt of coolant and finally cut out and we had to have a buddy with a jet ski tow us to shore. I got the boat home and let it cool and started breaking down the engine. the wiring had been badly burnt, spark plugs virtually non exsitant and i came to find a quarter size hole in the exhaust manifold, i had it fixed with a tig welder and replaced onto the engine block. I never replaced the wiring except with new sparks and wiring. Now the engine will turn over sometimes but wont fire. Im a little over 6 months in this project and cant decide between replacing the entire engine with a more reliable engine or just having the older one rebuilt. Sorry this is long but just want to share what i have gone through. Can you tell me more about the 470 and what i should do about replacement engines? Thanks -Chase Meador

Click to expand...

Ayuh,.... Welcome Aboard, 'n I'm sorry to hear yer tale of wooo,... Unfortunately, I agree with the Coach,...

I've never seen any sorta motor, that when overheated, it was ever a Good idea to Run 'er, Hammer down, myself....

You could cob in a 3.0l motor, but you'll need a matchin' drive for it, the 470 gear ratio is too tall, 'n you'll be loosin' horsepower...
or drop in a 4.3l, 'n ya need Everything forward of the transom...

Re: 85' Four Winns Horizon 170 w/ Mercruiser 470

Fanny, I'm looking into new engines but not sure if I need an actual boat adapted engine or if I can drop a regular automotive engine in?

Stoney, I didn't think to change the impeller, but I'll look into it.

Coach, thanks for the enthusiasm! Lol

Bond-o, thanks for the advice but forgive my novice knowledge but what do you mean by drive?

Re: 85' Four Winns Horizon 170 w/ Mercruiser 470

Why in the world did you keep going with it running hot? What were you expecting it outcome to be?

Don't want to bust your balls but that was not very smart. Get rid of that 470 ASAP - Also will have a hard time getting rid of it with a 470 if you ever want to go bigger.

LK

Re: 85' Four Winns Horizon 170 w/ Mercruiser 470

Bond-o, thanks for the advice but forgive my novice knowledge but what do you mean by drive?

Click to expand...

Ayuh,.... The Outdrive,... The big black thingy bolted to the aft of the transom...

It's Gear Ratio, Must match whichever motor is bolted in front of it....

Re: 85' Four Winns Horizon 170 w/ Mercruiser 470

Yeah, running it hot was unwise. At a minimum you probably blew the head gasket. Sounds like you had a pretty good engine to start with. You could try a compression check, don't know how much it will tell you if you can't get it running, but if you actually melted a hole in the exhaust manifold..... If it is trashed you should be able to part it out for a few hundred bucks. Good luck, and next time if your engine starts to overheat, shut it down right now!

Re: 85' Four Winns Horizon 170 w/ Mercruiser 470

Fourwinns 470 said:

Bond-o, thanks for the advice but forgive my novice knowledge but what do you mean by drive?

Click to expand...

You should spend some time up in the stickies at the top of this forum. Or just go to this link if you can't find them. http://forums.iboats.com/mercruiser...have-technical-information-diyers-342393.html

Item 10 will help you a lot.

Re: 85' Four Winns Horizon 170 w/ Mercruiser 470

Bond-o, it's an alpha one drive so putting in a 3.0 should still fit

Stoney, got a little to excited and pushed to far

Don, I will

I'm thinking I'm going to take out the engine and try to rebuild, I've rebuilt truck engines so a aquatic engine can't be much different right? How difficult is removing the engine? Does it mean removing the drive as well?

Re: 85' Four Winns Horizon 170 w/ Mercruiser 470

The drive is minor, a ten minute job, and should be done at least yearly just to grease the coupler splines and check the alignment.
The 470 is not nor has it ever been an automotive engine. It's an open deck design aluminum block with a 460 Ford head.
Here is the manual for that engine Boatinfo - Mercruiser Service Manual nr. 8 - 1985-1989 - Mercury Marine 4 Cylinder Engines

Re: 85' Four Winns Horizon 170 w/ Mercruiser 470

Fourwinns 470 said:

Bond-o, it's an alpha one drive so putting in a 3.0 should still fit

Click to expand...

Physically yes.. But the drive also contains the internal gearing that reduce the ratio of turn of the propeller shaft to turns of the crankshaft. The ratio of the 470 is 1.84:1. The required ratio for the 3.0 is 1.98:1. I also think putting a 3 litre engine in place of the 470 is not such a good idea. Find yourself a donor boat with a decent 4.3l and use that...

Fourwinns 470 said:

I'm thinking I'm going to take out the engine and try to rebuild, I've rebuilt truck engines so a aquatic engine can't be much different right?

Click to expand...

There are a few differences, mainly in the electrical and fuel systems. All about spark/fire/explosion prevention.

Fourwinns 470 said:

How difficult is removing the engine? Does it mean removing the drive as well?

Click to expand...

Yes, you must remove the drive. That's a very simple job. Before you get all enthused and start tearing into things, have a read of the service manual. A very thorough read. And since you cooked up that engine so well, it's likely you're in for some internal drive repairs too. The very least will be the water pump, and I suspect the water pocket cover will be completely melted.

That donor engine's looking better and better.

Chris......

Re: 85' Four Winns Horizon 170 w/ Mercruiser 470

Fourwinns 470 said:

Bond-o, it's an alpha one drive so putting in a 3.0 should still fit

Stoney, got a little to excited and pushed to far

Don, I will

I'm thinking I'm going to take out the engine and try to rebuild, I've rebuilt truck engines so a aquatic engine can't be much different right? How difficult is removing the engine? Does it mean removing the drive as well?

Click to expand...

Aluminum block , open deck. Iron Ford 460 head. Push rod length determines valve lash. Just for starters.

Dennis

Re: 85' Four Winns Horizon 170 w/ Mercruiser 470

Will I have the appropriate space for a v6, I have a 25"/40"/9"engine compartment available.

Re: 85' Four Winns Horizon 170 w/ Mercruiser 470

The V6 is shorter than the 470, but wider at 770mm..

Re: 85' Four Winns Horizon 170 w/ Mercruiser 470

achris said:

The V6 is shorter than the 470, but wider at 770mm..

Click to expand...

Just a hair over 30"

LK

Re: 85' Four Winns Horizon 170 w/ Mercruiser 470

Ive been doing a little searching and researching for a donor motor and I think i have found one. Its a mercruiser 205 V6 engine. The boat looks in ok condition, its missing the lower unit, and the upohlstery has seen better days. My question is would the 205 have enough space to fit in the existing compartment of a 170? and is it essentially the same engine (mounting brackets and such wise). Please help, want to get this boat running again!

Re: 85' Four Winns Horizon 170 w/ Mercruiser 470

V6 and the 470 are completely different animals. The 470 is slightly longer but the V6 is wider. You'll need to measure the internal width of the engine box. You need a minimum of 770mm (30") for the V6 to fit. You will also need to fabricate the side engine mounts. The 470 mounts front and rear, the V6 'front' mounts are on the side, like a V8, so you'll need to have mounting pads made up in the engine bay.

Re: 85' Four Winns Horizon 170 w/ Mercruiser 470

achris said:

V6 and the 470 are completely different animals. The 470 is slightly longer but the V6 is wider. You'll need to measure the internal width of the engine box. You need a minimum of 770mm (30") for the V6 to fit. You will also need to fabricate the side engine mounts. The 470 mounts front and rear, the V6 'front' mounts are on the side, like a V8, so you'll need to have mounting pads made up in the engine bay.

Click to expand...

"Will I have the appropriate space for a v6, I have a 25"/40"/9"engine compartment available."

Seems like he has the room but he will have to mod engine mounts.....