Vermont boat question

I'm in New Jersey, I came across a boat for sale which is owned by an elderly couple who came here from Vermont with it in the late 70's. Its been stored in their garage ever since. The owner has been restoring it, (or at least tore it down and replaced the deck, transom, and repainted it). Every part to the boat is there, including a minty clean 70hp motor.
They brought the boat from Vermont, and swear it was never registered or titled there, they claim you don't or didn't have to?
There is no title, no registration to sign over.
The boat is not advertised, it belongs to the boss of a family friend, who is now well past retirement age.
I looked at the boat, its all but buried in an attached garage, 99% of all the parts are accounted for as well as plenty of new parts he bought for it many years ago. He just wants it gone. The boat is a 16' Starcraft aluminum hull, open bow style boat.
With the new paint on it it looks like a new boat, the deck is replaced with 3/4" plywood covered in fiberglass, as is the transom panel. The owner is well into his 80's and probably not able to deal with the boat or much else these days.

I've gone so far as to contact the state police and DMV here, they basically said that the last owner must supply proof of ownership, in the form of a title, Certificate of origin, or signed, notarized bill of sale accompanied by an out of state registration if that state does not issue boat titles. He has none of this. They ran a full check on the HIN number, there's no trace of that boat ever being registered in any nearby state.
I hate to just walk away, its a really nice boat but there's not much he can do other than give me a notarized bill of sale with an explanation of the circumstances. NJ won't accept that without an old registration, and they won't accept it was never registered without the original Certificate of Origin from the manufacturer.
This guy isn't the original owner, he got it from someone else in his family, who is now gone, so he would have never had the CO for the boat. The seller lives in a rather affluent area, and I have little reason to doubt his story and I can see its been sitting for decades. The seller also isn't able to travel much due to medical reasons, so he's not likely going to be able to do much as far as getting a title to basically give away the boat. I also don't want to own a useless hull, although I'm sure there's some scrap value to the aluminum. Its far too nice for that though.


Did VT not have titles or proof of ownership back then? Does VT have a method to get a title for such a boat?

What if anything can be done to make this boat legal again?

Re: Vermont boat question

http://www.getnewtitle.com/ keep in mind, this process will cost quite a bit. You could also have someone in NY do it for you, same kinda procedure, but I can't remember the form numbers. Just need paperwork from previous owner stating they lost the registration and that they certify they were the last owner.

Re: Vermont boat question

Vermont was NOT a title state for boats, motors or trailer's back then however it was required to be registered. Registration records are not kept on file if they have not been renewed after so many years.

I just purchased an older boat (1974) that had not been registered in over 4 years. When I called to trace the registration there was no record. All I required was a bill of sale.

Two years ago I restored a 1986 Starcraft that was purchased from salvage (no numbers at all) and I had to register it as a 1970 which is when nothing was required in VT.

Sorry to say there is no title check however, if you do have a Hull Identification Number and send it to me I might help out with some official inquiries. PM me for more info. Maybe I can help.

Re: Vermont boat question

I would initially have a hard time walking away, too, even though you have big challenges on the title, the worst part being "This guy isn't the original owner, he got it from someone else in his family." But the more I think about it....

A couple things about this deal: could be the real "barn queen" and all well preserved, but you are getting a well-preserved half rebuilt starcraft. If it was tore down and rebuilt in the early seventies, it must be very old and had a major catastrophe; those boats are durable. So it's not like finding an old Chris Craft. If it had not been repaired (or needed to be) I'd be more interested.You are inheriting problems.

While 70's are good motors, yours is 40+ years old and not run for most of that time. You have a lot of work to get it going. What you don't have (unlike the $500 glasstron) is something you can easily sell if the boat doesn't work out.

But if you are going for it, go in person to the title agency for your state, see if you can talk to the oldest clerk there, and become her best friend. Doors may open.


In addition to the title companies, there are other methods people use to get titles and most entail bending the truth somewhat. Not always a good thing to do with government agencies these days but sometimes you just have to. And older scruffy boat repair shop may know how to pull it off.

Re: Vermont boat question

I know there is a state that you can mail with info and get a registration without all this hassle. Do a search on fiberglassics .com in there general forum,there have been a few topics about it and those looking for proper paperwork have all gotten it. As far as the boat rebuild,it's a 16 aluminum boat,ain't much to do once the floor and transom are in. Motor will need a impeller and maybe squirt/soak some lube in the cylinders before turning over. Check wiring,flexabilty/condition of all fuel lines/fuel pumps/primer bulb all small things that add up,not money wise,engine running wise. Go to whatever make your motor is forum on here and ask away before trying to fire here up.

Re: Vermont boat question

Bob_VT said:

Vermont was NOT a title state for boats, motors or trailer's back then however it was required to be registered. Registration records are not kept on file if they have not been renewed after so many years.

I just purchased an older boat (1974) that had not been registered in over 4 years. When I called to trace the registration there was no record. All I required was a bill of sale.

Two years ago I restored a 1986 Starcraft that was purchased from salvage (no numbers at all) and I had to register it as a 1970 which is when nothing was required in VT.

Sorry to say there is no title check however, if you do have a Hull Identification Number and send it to me I might help out with some official inquiries. PM me for more info. Maybe I can help.

Click to expand...

Bob, I will PM you the info when I get it, I'll stop by there on my way to work, chances are the old guy is out walking at the break of day.
It does have a HIN number on the right rear of the transom, I just didn't write it down when I was there.

Re: Vermont boat question

Home Cookin' said:

I would initially have a hard time walking away, too, even though you have big challenges on the title, the worst part being "This guy isn't the original owner, he got it from someone else in his family." But the more I think about it....

A couple things about this deal: could be the real "barn queen" and all well preserved, but you are getting a well-preserved half rebuilt starcraft. If it was tore down and rebuilt in the early seventies, it must be very old and had a major catastrophe; those boats are durable. So it's not like finding an old Chris Craft. If it had not been repaired (or needed to be) I'd be more interested.You are inheriting problems.

While 70's are good motors, yours is 40+ years old and not run for most of that time. You have a lot of work to get it going. What you don't have (unlike the $500 glasstron) is something you can easily sell if the boat doesn't work out.

But if you are going for it, go in person to the title agency for your state, see if you can talk to the oldest clerk there, and become her best friend. Doors may open.


In addition to the title companies, there are other methods people use to get titles and most entail bending the truth somewhat. Not always a good thing to do with government agencies these days but sometimes you just have to. And older scruffy boat repair shop may know how to pull it off.

Click to expand...

I get the impression that the boat was 10 or so years old when he tore it apart, if it were used and stored outdoors as most boats are I can see where it would need new wood installed. Since its been repainted, I can only go by the pics he showed me of it when he first got it. The lower outer hull was white with some blue trim and a blue top, and interior was and still is mostly white with dark blue bolsters and trim.
The hull has no dents, no patches, no obvious signs of any damage, The only drilled holes I see are in the rear splashwell sides where they have two down rigger mounts riveted to the underside of the tray. He's got pics of the boat out on some lake with two older guys fishing from it, it has no registration numbers on the hull in those pics. He does have various pics of the boat being taken apart, as well as the new deck being cut, coated and installed. He reused the original foam and still had the two cans of Gluvit he said he used on the inner hull.
The transom wood is coated all around with glass, but this has made the wood too tall to refit the original top cap on the transom. It was a point he kept making over and over, that the transom wood needs to be remade again and this time it needs to be 1/8" shorter so the trim will fit properly. It really bothers him that it wasn't right.
Every seat and cushion is reupholstered identical to new, there's a whole roll of blue Nautolex vinyl, and the consoles are stripped, primed and ready to be painted. The top of the boat, which is dark blue is in good shape and still original. He had 5 quarts of boat paint that goes with it to match the top. There's a brand new bimini top, plus all the pieces to make it a full enclosure, including a windshield riser section and zipper panel to close off the area between the console. He also had a full mooring cover made, a bow section cover, and a complete boat cover with perimeter cord for storage on the trailer, all done in the same material as the Bimini top.
There are two brand new blue and white back to back seats, a new helm and cable, new controls, all new gauges, plus the 70hp Mercury, which looks to be early 80's vintage, three cylinder. The motor is on a stand he built and he said it was serviced and winterized when it was put there. The garage is heated and attached to the house, the front area was his wood shop, the boat takes up about half the garage. The rest of the garage and the boat are full of both boat parts, fishing tackle, and various tools, left over wood, and about 100 huge cardboard boxes he's been packing getting ready to move.

I'm sure the boat wasn't new when it was parked there, but its been there for a long time, and it doesn't look like a saltwater run boat, nothing is corroded, nothing is pitted. The windshield frames are still super clean, the original wood he removed is still standing in the corner, he also has cardboard templates made of the floor and transom. The original wood don't look that bad, only the rear corners are a bit tattered. The transom panel is good other than the area around one tie down eye bolt.
In the pics he showed me, of himself fishing in that boat and holding a rather huge Walleye, he's still got a full head of dark hair, next to another older balding guy with gray hair, which he said was the original owner, who passed away 30 plus years ago. I take it they were partners in the boat, he took the boat and moved after his partner died I guess. At that point I felt like I was getting more info than I needed so I didn't pry.
After all, I don't know the man and only got involved after mentioning to a buddy that I'd like to find a boat to do up for next year.

Regardless of the title, the sum of the parts is well worth taking the boat, there's $3K worth of new parts there or more, plus the motor.
At the price of the boat I could make money even if I scrapped the motor.

I've looked into the title services a bit, I found two, one in MA, and one in NV. NJ has boat titles so we don't have title agents, its all handled by the state at the MVS office. I was specifically told by someone at the MVS that they WILL NOT accept notarized bill of sales or registrations coming from title agents in several states. I was told they recently have been cracking down on people doing just that.
A call to two such title services revealed various other charges and fees which I would incur being in NJ, plus they did not guarantee that NJ would give me a title after spending as much as $800.
I had a buddy go through one of those places a number of years ago to get a title for his street rod, and all went well but he had to go through several states before bringing it here. I believe it was AL, NC, and then NJ.
The three people I've talked to so far from NJ, two from the MVS, one from the Marine Police both told me that the boat has to have some sort of paper trail to get a title in NJ, and that no boat was ever built without a title. Which I found odd since NJ didn't have titles on some boats until the 80's according to several marinas I spoke too.
I was told that its easier to get a title for a boat with no numbers than one with existing numbers, a neighbor runs an old bass boat he found in the woods, got inspected and got a title after only a week but that was 20 years ago. I can't say I didn't think about tossing the original number plate and going that route but once I do I'm committed to that course of action. If it don't work, I may have problems trying to get a proper title any other way. While I'm all for the fastest and easiest route to get on the water with this boat, I'd really prefer to have a proper title that matches the OEM HIN number.

Re: Vermont boat question

I figured I'd add an update here.
The owner let me take the hull to the state police, they told me that its the sellers or owners problem to provide me with proof of ownership, they advised against buying the boat since with no NJ title in the eyes of this state it can never be mine. The original owner has no interest in going through the $350 or so process. I don't doubt what he says about where the boat came from but in this state its just no possible these days to get a boat title for a boat like this. The hull came back clean, no history in NJ or any surrounding state, nothing at all. I told them it came from VT, but they didn't check VT for prior registration. Either they couldn't or just didn't care to.

I took the boat back and told the guy I'd take all the parts he had for it but its just not worth the hassle to try to register it here.
What I found is that first off, the police need to see proof of ownership, along with a notarized bill of sale from the LAST REGISTERED OWNER, before they will issue a clear report to the DMV, the DMV will not accept a bill of sale in any form from the last owner because its not accompanied by a current registration from another state.

What I did find out is that if the boat had no numbers, the police will inspect it and issue a clear report on that alone. If there were no numbers on the hull I think I'd have gotten a title by now with only a bill of sale, from anyone. With no HIN number, there's no past registration to have. With no registration numbers on the hull, there's no way to track the hull either. I think I'd have been better off just removing the number plate, filling the holes and taking it for a hull inspection along with a bill of sale listing it as a bare hull with no numbers. Having had it inspected now, I can't do that, they took pics of the boat for records and told me that I should take it back where I got it and make it someone elses problem. If it turns up now with no numbers they'd know its the same boat, the pics are on file I guess.
I actually thought they were going to take the boat, they acted real suspicious during the whole deal, as if I stole a stripped out hull. I put my tag on the trailer so they just assumed the trailer was mine.

Its too bad, the boat has a lot of potential but for now I'll just let it sit where it is, I told the guy I'd take it for free, but nothing more. He won't sell the parts separate, they have to go with the boat, but without the boat the parts are of little use to me.
I'd have taken it for parts if I had another one here just like it.
I'm not sure if the enclosure will fit any other models? The bimini will fit anything, as will the back to back seats. The upholstered parts are specific to that boat.
The bottom line is that I can most likely find a complete running, maybe even ready to use boat for not much more than it would take me in time and money to put this one together, even if I got it free. Even if I bought a new title out of state, and ran it through another state to get a registration in my name, the total cost of doing so would exceed what the boat is worth in the end.

Re: Vermont boat question

glad you learned all that before investing anything; most people learn the hard way after they bought a boat they can't use.