Is it prudent to have a kicker?

Might it be prudent or entirely unnecessary to have a kicker motor under the following conditions?


1. 19-22-foot cuddy w/ IO, MerCruiser 3.0 Alpha One?
2. cruising within one mile off shore between the Golden Gate Bridge and Monterey (or Bodega) Bay?
3. carrying TWO marine radios on board one of which is a floating battery-operated walkie-talkie?
4. having some type of sea-tow coverage?
5. having all life vests and CG-required equipment on board?
6. boating during the summer months under calm weather conditions?
7. having two pet dogs on board?

What is the general response time of a sea-tow call whenever the sole motor dies one mile off shore?

How often do 3.0 MerCruisers fail anyway?

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

What year is your boat?... and does it have floatation foam?... has the floatation foam been checked for water logging. Have to checked/tested your boat for buoyancy under swamping/emergency conditions?

Some boats will sink in a matter of minutes while others will make it back to port with a breached hull with minimal difficulty.

There's this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M30nDtZ4iys

... and this:
http://www.glangler.com/_blog/Great_Lakes_Angler/post/MULL/

Which one is your boat?

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

I don't even own a boat yet. This question is for a future boat. But it will be an I/O swim-platform model something like a:

1. Sting Ray 19-22 foot cuddy
2. Bayliner 19-22 foot cuddy
3. Monterey 19-22 foot cuddy

all CG-approved for flotation and all made after 1990
in pre-owned condition

I don't think a MerCruiser 3.0 fails often anyway. I am not so worried about the boat swamping so much as the possibility of the motor going out off shore. Cuddies are supposed to be good for light offshore use.

Light offshore use means seldom used offshore, kept close to shore and for shore trips within 100 miles up or down the coast. Also offshore boating under the best possible sea and weather conditions.

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

I don't think it's a necessity, but it's a nice piece of insurance to have if you can swing it. As for "average response time" you'll need to ask someone in that specific area. I know in my case, BoatUS gets to me usually within 30 minutes or less, and I've only used them twice. Now, had I had a "kicker" I wouldn't have even called them, but I'd still have the tow insurance. That, to me, is an absolute must-have. As for "how often does a Mercruiser 3.0 fail", that all depends on the who's owned it really. Anything man made has a propensity for failure, regardless of the owner, however a well maintained motor of any make or model is, for the most part, dependable. The problem lies in the "unforseen" issues, and it's not always the motor's fault. For instance, you can run into a fuel tank problem with a clogged pickup screen that will prevent the main motor from running. A kicker usually has a separate, portable tank that would be able to get you around that issue.

Kickers serve a great purpose for fishing as well. You don't want to have to troll with the big motor, mainly because of fuel consumption and excess wear. So, if you plan to do much of that, something else to consider. The good thing about a kicker is you don't have to start out with one. You can always add one well after you've found the boat you like.

Keep in mind, being 1 mile offshore is still way too far to have to paddle, and in bad weather, even a "15 minute response time" will seem like an eternity. Boat wisely, however, and you can help yourself avoid a lot of the latter.

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

Even a 2000 model is 12 yrs. old now, plenty of time for the floatation to become water logged.

I'd be much less concerned about a kicker than I would be about if the boat will float or not during an emergency, if the boat will float you can be "dead in the water" and have plenty of time for rescue.

If your boat won't float, a dozen kicker motors won't do you any good.

Just because your boat was built with USCG approved floatation, doesn't mean the floatation is still up to standards 10 yrs later.

Take a look around the iboats restoration forum, you may be surprised at the amount of boats with saturated foam... this comes from previous owner neglect and is certainly something that needs to be looked at before buying any used boat.

I only mention this because you sound concerned about safety, which is a good thing... but I think you need to reorganize your priorities.

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

jonmyrlebailey said:

... all CG-approved for flotation....I don't think a Mercruiser 3.0 fails often anyway. I am not so worried about the boat swamping so much as the possibility of the motor going out off shore....

Click to expand...

There is no reason to expect a marine engine to fail while underway any more than an auto engine does; IF Properly Maintained!
Running out of Gas is much more likely.
Batteries tend to be maintained even worse and cause more "Fail to Start" problems than maintained engines quiting in mid stroke.

USCG Flotation Requirements state that Boats Under 20 Feet must remain afloat if swamped.
Boats of 20 Feet or more are CG Approved to Sink!

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

Yes kicker is very good to have and use. Its useful.

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

jonmyrlebailey said:

I don't even own a boat yet. This question is for a future boat. But it will be an I/O swim-platform model something like a:

1. Sting Ray 19-22 foot cuddy
2. Bayliner 19-22 foot cuddy
3. Monterey 19-22 foot cuddy

all CG-approved for flotation and all made after 1990
in pre-owned condition

I don't think a MerCruiser 3.0 fails often anyway. I am not so worried about the boat swamping so much as the possibility of the motor going out off shore. Cuddies are supposed to be good for light offshore use.

Light offshore use means seldom used offshore, kept close to shore and for shore trips within 100 miles up or down the coast. Also offshore boating under the best possible sea and weather conditions.

Click to expand...

Check this out if you are going to run an aux motor then you need to have it on a independent fuel system. It won't do much good if it is supplied by the main tank and you have fuel problems, then your kicker will not run either might as well toss it overboard. And a Bayliner beware ever wonder why they are so cheap!!

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

Is there any floatation t all in a 22' I/O? I don't think its USCG required in an I/O or over 20". Not sure but seems I've heard that. If I didn't need it for trolling I doubt I would have a kicker.

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

Only if you own a football team. Why someone could not use a correct word for a " life saving 2nd motor " is beyond me.

A second motor is ALWAYS desireable. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It must be BIG ENOUGH to move the boat in the conditions you want it to.

That is why 2 or 3 EQUAL sized motors are used by people who can afford them. I am excluding the speed crazy nuts.

..........CAUTION...........When you are running on 1 motor only...........It is probably going to NEVER reach full rpms. Could cause overheating of some engines. Good engines CAN & DO KEEP COOL ENOUGH. Been there & done that many times.

Life & death situation of being blown into worse conditions...........**** on everything.......... Push the engine to WOT if necessary. We are talking survival now.


There are so many variables in a twin setup in a used boat to consider. Think a lot. Hopefully buy 1 time.

Keep asking questions. You are helping dozens of people who are afraid to ask for help anywhere.

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

bayoucat58 said:

. And a Bayliner beware ever wonder why they are so cheap!!

Click to expand...

LOL That was hard



Chuck

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

A boat of that size, a 9.9 is a pretty good idea as a backup. 5hp is a little underpowered but it would still work. 9.9 should get you full displacement speed in a boat that size ( 6 knots, give or take ). Just make sure that you have spare shear pins if it uses them

My dad had a '73 Starcraft Chieftan with a 140hp 181 Mercruiser ( later called the 3.0L ). Neglected boat that my dad got cheap cause a tree fell on it. He fixed the crushed roof and brought it back into service, but never serviced the carb, so it always had a bit of an issue and stalled every once in a while at idle. Most of the time it would fire back up in a few mins. Once this left us needing a tow. The other time he had a kicker and we made as far as the break wall and, my dad gave it a little extra to get it thru the break wall entrance quicker. Shear pin snapped and we had to search for the spare.. Ended up finding it and making it back to the launch.

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

Matt brings up a very good point. Old stuff can be ready to fail at any time. ........Fact.

Only solution to that is a routine maintanance program.............With a GOOD marine mechanic. Pay as you can deal.

As a thought. I have a 16' x 5' Lowe short shaft 15" transom, open Aluminum fishing boat with a very good running 1999.. 9.9 hp. It can barely go foward in 25 to 35 mph wind & 2' to 3' conditions.
I do not think it would push foward at all, if I put it on my 3500 pound 19' x 8' Chaparral bow rider in the same wind, wave & current conditions.

The 220 hp 5.0 L V8 was barely doing the job with 6 seniors in a sudden squall that put up 4' waves & high wind.
I had to move people around to trim perfectly & use a lot of trim out of the stern drive to keep the bow WAY WAY up in the air. 3 biggies on the rear bench, then me & the wife in driver & passenger seats, smallest lady by herself in the bow seat area to balance left to right out.

Did I ever think about conditions like that ? NO...........Even if I did. I could not afford to buy a +35' boat.

Luck in life is so DAMM IMPORTANT. If you start thinking about all the dangers ahead.........You will not be able to afford a boat.
Night before & morning watch the TV weather that SHOWS REAL RADAR sweeps in your boating areas. Know when to cancel......................Even if you commited to a group of pushy adults & whinning kids.


NO NO NO. I own the boat. PERIOD!!

Rich

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

Nobody mentioned it, but good luck steering a cuddy if you are sitting on the swim platform. You will have very little if any visibility to what is in front of you.

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

Crater

I am cracking up at the visual I have of the kicker clamped to the swim platform.

He is facing rearward at the motor. Waves are spilling over him & the motor. Fear not.

He can see foward with the rear view mirror on top of the motor & the wifes large handheld face mirror.

jonmy
I am just joking.

Rich

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

You guys do know they sell systems that attach the kicker to the main when it comes to steering, right? lol.

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

I had the bright brass unit that popped on & off in seconds. It had a spring inside to adjust to binding with motor up or down or right & left turn stops. linked the 9.9 to the 30 hp.

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

bayoucat58 said:

... Bayliner ... ever wonder why they are so cheap!!

Click to expand...

Bayliner ... ever wonder why so many are sold?!!

Because they benefit from the economy of scale.
They make thousands of them all the same.
Little or no Customizing/Options available.
The accessories are not luxury items but basic utility in quality.
They will get you to your destination safely and do what they need to do without all the expensive luxury frills.

With well over 22 million produced, the most popular car model ever made was the Volkswagen Beetle.
It did its job reliably, but it sure wasn't a Caddy!

Bayliner, Proudly the Super Beetle of the Boat World!

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

first, the discussion about floatation and how fast a boat will sink is irrelevant to the question of having a kicker; if your boat is sinking, your kicker won't save you.

second, any motor of any age can fail regardless of condition. Odds are that a poorly maintained or old motor will be more likley to fail. But you can't count on an old one failing any more than a new one not.

Along the same lines, a kicker won't save you unless it is also well maintained, used monthly, and odds are better if it's new. But is "peace of mind" worth $3000?

Under the conditions the OP describes, including the boat, I say an extra motor is not necessary. That's one great big spare part there. And overall, I say for most boaters it is not worthwhile to carry a spare motor for breakdowns. That is especially true if there is a towing service, which is always less expensive than a motor.

Now, if you use one for trolling, then the fact that it also serves as a bcak-up is a good feature, but shouldn't be the reason to have one.

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

emoney said:

You guys do know they sell systems that attach the kicker to the main when it comes to steering, right? lol.

Click to expand...

'ya sure about that? Not many of those are installed on cuddies with stern drives and swim platforms... The angles involved will make it nearly impossible for it to work well. (the kicker isn't beside the drive, its going to be BEHIND the main drive.) The general idea behind them is that your main engine is roughly parallel to the kicker, like it would be in a fishing boat.