Rookie question

Okay, first post, new forum and only boat forum I'm on. I found it on google after looking over a couple others it seemed like this one might have the type of users to help me out.

With that said, I did a search on "first boat" "small boat" and I scrolled thru the towing/trailer section. I found some info touching on some of my questions but not exact answers. If there's something better I can search please let me know...


So onto my reason for being here. With it being end of boating season I'm guessing like lots of other hobbies you can pick up the deals here pretty soon. BTW, I'm located in Las Vegas and would be using it on Lake Mead.

I'm just looking for something simple to get out on the water, explore, get wet, maybe pull a tube. I guess maybe skiing or wakeboarding could be of interest in the future but it's not exactly a must do.

Now I have some limitations... My towing vehicles are a little bit limited. I have an older V6 explorer. It's lifted but it's also been properly geared for the larger tires and actually is geared a little lower then stock.



My other option is my toyota pickup which also has a V6 and is geared much lower then stock too. Power really isn't much issue but weight is because of the nature of the ride. It's not exactly your "typical truck" as you can see.







The Toyota has a spool in the rear and 1st is pretty darn low but with wet tires I'm not convinced it will do great pulling a boat out of the water. The explorer on the other hand is 4WD and I'm sure in low I could haul it up a steep ramp.


I'm not in a position to buy another vehicle. I actually also have a Jeep wrangler but it's for sale as I'm trying to downsize my driveway.

I do often tow a 5x8 enclosed trailer with 2 dirt bikes and full riding/camping gear with both of the vehicles shown above trouble free.



So size is a bit of my concern... I'm not out looking to impress anyone with the biggest most badass boat on the water. I actually honestly could careless what others think as long as I'm in the water and enjoying myself. Remember my main goal really is to just have something I can get out on the water with during the summer here in Vegas. Lake Mead and maybe the colorado below the damn on occasion would be my spots 99% of the time.

Budget wise, I'd like to stay under $6000. Looking at craigslist and not knowing what I'm looking at I see boats that are way out of my league towing wise for under that price all day long. Heck, some in the $3000-4000 range. I'm not going to complain if my needs are met with a cheaper boat obviously. I've been eyeballing seadoo speedsters and challengers but I'm not sure if I want a jet boat. I've done some reading from the various searches and it sure seems like for a first timer something with a prop will be much easier to control and operate. BTW, I'm VERY mechanically inclined. Assuming boats aren't rocket science and are just another mechanical system similar to a car but obviously different I'm pretty sure I can figure out repairs and maintenance.

So with those towing vehicles as my option leaning towards the exploder cause it's 4WD and has the low range option for the tug out of the water and up the ramp... What other type of boats are out there in the smaller size range. I'd like something with a bimini top, something that gets up on plane, can haul say 4 people and pull a tube. Just a fun little day type boat cruiser in the under $6000 range.

Any advice?

Thanks,
Khris

Re: Rookie question

Welcome to the forum, Khris! You came to the right place for answers to your questions! Enjoy your stay here and make it your new "boating home!"

It took till the end of the post to start seeing what you are looking for in a boat. To be of the most help possible, let us help you hone in on your wants/needs:

Will you be doing any fishing from the boat? If so, how much do you think?

How fast do you want to go on the water?

What size do you think you need to be comfortable? Keep in mind that the majority of boats out there will hold 4 or more people. Now, how large those people are and how comfortable they are can lead to a different answer. What is the largest number of people you see yourself having on the boat at any time?

Day type cruiser? What exactly do you mean by that? Are you talking an enclosed area with a head? Do you mean just something to cruise up and down the lake? Do you want to do any "laying in the sun?" or just cruise in seats?

Do you want to be able to sit in the front of the boat and feel the wind at your face while someone else is driving or do you want all passengers to be behind a windshield?

Do you want a boat where you can more safely move around while underway, or is something where you are planted in your seat the whole time okay?

Please Khris, understand I am not trying to be a jerk, I just want you to think about what your needs and desires are, then we can start pointing you in the direction of a boat that will fit your towing, price, and needs range.

BTW, love the second pick-up pic!

Re: Rookie question

First, welcome to iboats! And yes, you have found the best forum for advice, sharing and just plain ole' friendly banter. Enjoy it and be responsible by "paying forward" whatever you glean.

As for "what to buy", if it were me, or someone close to me, I'd be steering towards an 18'-20' Bowrider, preferrably with an outboard in the 150hp range, but an I/O will do as well. Just a quick glance at your local Las Vegas Craigslist and several pop up well under your budget. It would be a LOT better for you to take someone with you that knows what to look for when it pertains to rot, especially. Lots of "hidden problems" on older boats and I think the smart money would be to look to spend closer to the top of your budget range and not the bottom. Most boats in that range will easily be towable with the Explorer. Good luck, welcome to the world of boating (soon-to-be anyway) and keep us posted on progress in the shopping process.

Re: Rookie question

A couple of examples on Craigslist;
http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/boa/3275787882.html

http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/boa/3248380349.html

http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/boa/3266284564.html

Re: Rookie question

welcome aboard.

Your questions are good ones because you gave a lot of specifics about yor intended use, budget, etc. Also you recognize that for your situation, the tow vehicle is an important component and needs to be considered, more than it would for others. Often new boaters ignore this.

There are a lot of experienced trailer/lake boaters on this forum who are in your area or similar set-ups who can give you way better advice on the used market, ramp conditions and boat types out there.

If boating is seasonal there, you are coming into a buyer's market, b/c people don't want to pay to store the boats. If you don't get one now, be sure to start shopping early in the spring b/c it takes a while to get a good one and then a few weeks to actually get it on the water.

Re: Rookie question

If you go with an I/O, I would recommend at least the 4.3 V6. I have known several people who have bought the 4 cylinder 3.0 and been disappointed with its performance. They can be cheap, but the leave you power hungry very quickly.

A friend of mine test drove one with just himself and the seller aboard. The boat hit about 38-40 mph and he was satisfied that it was adequate for skiing so he bought it.

When he took it out for a maiden voyage with the whole family+ gear, the boat struggled get to 30 mph and hole shot was horrible so skiing was no fun.

Pay a little more and get a 4.3 or a V8. Just my 2 cents.

Re: Rookie question

Wow!!! Thank you for the replies! It's sometimes hit and miss when you first post on a new forum to first off see if there will be any replies cause the forum could just be dead in general and then you always have the guys that just simply reply to search which is difficult when you're new to the scene and not really sure what words to search will get the results I'm looking for. I'm betting the exact questions I've asked are already covered here, it's just a matter for finding that thread.



Going thru some of the questions asked towards me though...

I doubt I'll do any fishing. If I do any at all it would be very rare so a fishing setup is very low on my priorities for my list.

How fast to I want to go? Well I guess the faster the better but I know 45 on the water feels a heck of a lot faster then it does on the pavement! So with that, I'm not really sure. I would think something in the 45-55 range would feel like I'm cruising at a really good clip and be more then enough to satisfy my speed need!

As far as number of people, I really don't picture more then 5 ever honestly. I'm not really looking to be the party barge per-say but I do want to be able to take some friends out. As far as open bow vs. closed... What's typically under the closed bow setups? Is it storage under there or even accessible or what? I've always just kind of leaned towards open bow for more choice in seating while out cruising or doing whatever. I'd also never thought about laying out in the sun option. While thoughts of playboy's next big thing cross my mind with hot chicks laid out on the deck it's probably not that big of a deal. On the closed bow setups, do they usually have enough support for someone to lay out up there if they wanted to? I know some have the deck areas in the rear... I guess I'm still sort of leaning towards open up front without knowing the benefits/perks of a closed bow.

I guess in ignorance, I should ask, what are the pros of a closed bow? What makes someone want a closed front?

I'm picturing something more where people are seated while we're moving for the most part so not something that needs to be super mobile underway.

By day cruiser I'm not really planning on sleeping quarters or anything like that. Lake mead does have a LOT of beaches so maybe some over night camping gear would get used occasionally but for the most part I picture just a few hours in the morning or afternoon out cruising on the water up and down the lake/river basically.






Emoney!!!!

Honestly, all of those boats look awesome! My concern is I haven't been able to get a realistic number on how much that whole setup weighs for towing. I kind of figured cause of my vehicles something along those lines would be a bit too much for me to pull. I've got a lot of towing experience with smaller trailers with dirt bikes and even grew up hauling a dune buggy to the deserts. I'm not an idiot towing... I'm fine with creeping along and getting there when I get there but thinking about brakes and getting it slowed reasonably or how it'll react with a heavy crosswind, etc is what I'm unsure about. It's hard to just find someone and say "hey, can I just hitch up your boat and go do like a 30-40 mile tow test with it to get an idea of what I can actually haul?" LOL

So with that said, how much do boats in that size and style range typically run cause those are what I actually really envision to the T, I just wasn't sure if my explorer could haul it. Power wise i'm not that worried, more concerned about the stopping and handling. Now granted, the lake is only about 20 miles and river would be about 40-50, mostly straight highway type towing. No mountain roads. Only grade is the drop right down into the lake basin or colorado river valley.



I do have a friend that is in the boat industry and I plan on taking him with me to look at any boats I look at. I'm actually still a little ways out from purchasing but trying to get an idea budget wise and what I want so I can start looking to get a feel for what's good, what's bad, what's a deal, what's not... etc... I plan to also drill him with all these questions too but he's more of a high end jaw dropping boat type guy where I just want something that'll get me out on the water to cruise around with some friends and get wet. Something to kill a day or afternoon here in Vegas cause the strip is not my scene or in my budget! LOL




Thanks again for the replies!!!! It's already obvious I came to the right place cause you guys are already asking questions which I haven't thought about and it's sparking other thoughts of what I'm looking for.

Khris

Re: Rookie question

Yes, my thoughts were V6 for sure. I think I would be disappointed with a 4 cylinder with 4 people in it and a V8 honestly I think is overkill for what I'm looking for.

Pros and cons on I/O vs. outboard though? other then the cosmetic obvious differences what's upkeep/maintenance like on one vs. the other? Performance differences? General usage/running differences?

Re: Rookie question

The I/O v outboard question is a loaded one! Everyone has a preference.

I/O's weigh more, so you generally you are talking more HP to push them along (and more weight to pull behind your tow vehicles). But they are quieter and MIGHT be easier for someone like yourself to work on since you are used to working on car/truck engines (I know, that was an assumption from your pictures and I could be wrong). I/O's take up more floor space, giving you less usable space on smaller craft, but they can give you a nice sunning platform that the outboards don't. Swim platforms are generally arranged nicer on I/O's than outboards.

Outboards are dependable, weigh less, but are generally louder than I/O's inhibiting your ability to talk at a reasonable volume while underway. Because they are lighter, it generally takes less horsepower to get your boat on plane. When working on them you don't have to climb down in a hole to reach everything.

Jets are loud, suck gas like it is going out of style, and usually fast (but slow speed handling is not very good).

I have had both and I prefer the outboard, but both serve their purpose and if maintained well will serve you well.

With that said, it sounds like you are looking for something around a 17 - 19 foot bowrider. If I/O make sure it is at the very least a V-6. If an outboard, you are probably looking for a 135 hp or higher model on a 17 and 150hp or up on a 19 footer. A sea trial will let you know if you feel comfortable and if the speed is right for you.

The shape of the hull will effect the ability of the boat to come on plane quickly and how it will handle the waves and chop. A tri-hull or a cathedral hull will give you a harder, bumpier ride than a deep V hull. A modified V are between the two. There are tricks to making a Tri-hull ride a little smoother, however. Just remember it is the point of something that will cut through a wave (like a sharp knife through butter). The more of the point making the cut, the smoother the cut through the wave. So if your hull is flatter, they turn into the wave so you are on a slight edge.

The closed bow can give you storage, it can give you a head, it can give you a place to lay down out of the sun ... some people like them and others do not. Look at some in person and you will see if that is wasted space to you, or usable, cool space.

Remember, part of the fun of owning a boat is the purchasing of it. Take your time, examine the options, get to know boats and what is available. Google pictures and look at floor plans. The important thing is that it is not what someone else thinks, it is what YOU think. Your vehicles should have no problem towing anything under 20 foot in length.

BTW, most 19 footers are going to be in the range of 3500lbs or less.

Re: Rookie question

Welcome aboard!

I had a 2000 Mercury Mountaineer v6 2WD, and I think it would have struggled to haul my current boat (roughly 2,000#+trailer). You're a newer boater, and really kinda' "testing the water (pun somewhat intended)." I'd suggest something smaller and cheaper. You can always trade up.

I personally think an OB is easier to learn to care for and maneuver, but it's hardly a deal breaker. Lotsa' people learn on I/O's all the time ... so don't sweat that part too much.

Couple of boats I found interesting in the Vegas area right now:
http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/boa/3251290490.html
http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/boa/3261642233.html
http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/boa/3228949646.html

They are all boats that should trailer easy, maintain fairly easy, do what you want ... and sell easy if you decide to bail out.

Re: Rookie question

Any of the boats I linked will all fall under the 3500k range for towing, which is well within your Explorer's range. If you google a specific model just put the name and weight and iboats and you'll get linked back here for the numbers you need. There are also specific threads in each Manufacturer section. So, if you see a boat that you like and want some quick opinions, look under the main forum page and scroll all the way down to the alphabetical manufacturer's "Groups" page.

As an example, I pull a Trophy 1802 w/120hp outboard on a galvanized trailer with my 2WD Kia Sorento. The boat is a heavy built boat being a walk around cuddy, and total with fuel and some gear (and a heavy duty trailer) I figure I'm pulling right at 3000lbs. Pulls it like it's not there and my trailer brakes aren't working and she still stops it without pause. Of course, we don't have too many "steep" ramps to deal with in Florida, but your 4x4 will make up for any of that.

Re: Rookie question

I'm a little partial to I/Os so my opinion is biased. By looking at your vehicles it seems that you are comfortable working on cars/trucks. You will probably enjoy an I/O since most are modified Chevy engines.

If you want to do skiing/tubing an I/O is much better. You don't have to dodge an engine to get in and out of the boat and usually will have a large swim platform. As mentioned they are much quieter.

I have very limited mechanical ability but I have learned to perform basic maintenance on my I/O such as engine oil change, drive unit oil change, prop changes, and winterizing.

Outboards do have some advantages as well but an I/O is my preference.

Re: Rookie question

I think you will be happy with the I/O, and as many stated with at least the 4.3 V6.
IMHO a cuddy under 19' is a waste of space. They're not big enough to really "do"(not that...well, maybe that!)much in, whereas the open bow will at least allow a pax or two to sit comfortably.

You're obviously mechanically inclined, so the care and upkeep should be just a matter of adjusting to the nomenclature of the parts, components and methods in the marine enviroment.

This is the BEST boating forum...by far...I've found. I doubt there's much that the cumulative expirence here hasn't seen, read, or dealt with personally.

Whatever you decide...Immediately after purchase, go here http://boatinfo.no/lib/library.html and find the appropriate manual to peruse through to familiarize yourself.

Good luck and happy boating!

Re: Rookie question

Well from reading the last set of replies it does kind of sound like the I/O vs. outboard thing really isn't that much of a big deal. From what I'm picking up and knowing what I've got in my head I don't think one vs. the other would be a decision maker on a boat but I am leaning a little bit towards the I/O thing.

Reason being... Someone above states that a cuddy on something under 19' is kind of wasted space on an already small boat which I kind of agree. I've always sort of been drawn to the open bow setups cause of the space being I'm looking at smaller boats. But then with the open bow, I'm kinda picturing the I/O setup providing the sunning platform area if needed and I know from the couple boats that have been in that the swimming deck area off the back is nice.

Oh I guess I should say... I haven't owned a boat and my boating experience is very limited passenger stuff. Growing up we just never had friends with boats and I happened to be more in with the offroad and dirt bike crowd then the boating crowd in the southwestern states.

As far as working on them/maintenance. The black truck above I built from the ground up and did the motor swap on it. I'm currently building a offroad race truck and will be pulling the engine out tonight to give you an idea... I'm not afraid to wrench and dive in. Like every vehicle and from the little I've read things are different but at the same time I haven't seen anything that looks scary or overly complicated. Just a little different. The one thing though is the I/O at least has some familiar parts to it for me. LOL

emoney said:

If you google a specific model just put the name and weight and iboats and you'll get linked back here for the numbers you need. There are also specific threads in each Manufacturer section. So, if you see a boat that you like and want some quick opinions, look under the main forum page and scroll all the way down to the alphabetical manufacturer's "Groups" page.

Click to expand...

Thanks for that info! I actually haven't really had much of a chance to explore this forum yet. I joined yesterday, did a few searches hoping to maybe answer my questions before even posting and then made this post. One of these evenings soon at home I'll explore the forum sections more.

I mentioned the race truck I'm building. I'm on par to finish up with it early November so I'm kind of thinking about starting my boat search mid-late nov and maybe purchase around Dec/early 2013.

Thanks for the info again everyone!!! It's greatly appreciated and is definitely giving me some ideas and straightening my head out. You guys have mentioned quite a few things that I hadn't even considered and is now adding to my purchasing decisions.

Khris