First attempts at starting 85 Mercruiser 3.0 /Alpha 1 - need some help...

wandrey

Recruit
Joined
Oct 11, 2010
Messages
4
Hi all, My boys and I are trying to get our project boat started 85 17Ft Sportcraft Ski King with Mercrusier 3.0 and Alpha 1.

I got the boat for a good price and went and bought a used spare alternator and Starter. It looked like the boat had been sitting and hull drain plug took in a lot of water at some point. We did have to spray the cylinders with PB blaster to get it freed up so starter would turn it over and it so far has cranked slow. Not so slow with the plugs out. Compression test was low under 100 all across figured the rings were frozen and should free up if we get it running. We pulled the valve cover and did need to free a stuck valve, seems just rusted in place not bad it popped right up with a screwdriver levering on the spring cap.

Just recently drained water and old water out of bottom end. swapped starter and alternator cleaned tested Carb. and Fuel pump. cleaned Fuel tank Replaced main wiring plug and starter solenoid. checked point gap and confirmed spark. Lifters seemed collapsed on the position that had the stuck valve after cranking some we did start to get oil up the push rods 3 of them didn?t have oil coming out when cranking . Used a syringe with some light oil and got the 3 dry ones filed with oil and felt any blockage clear out pushing hard on syringe through pushrox oil hole. Finally got all the lifters getting oil and rockers fim and looking as they should, replaced the valve cover.

Put Muffs on the outboard with the hose on but didn't look like water was getting up to motor when cranking figured when it started maybe that is when impeller in Alpha would be spinning fast enough. Cranked while slowly rotating Distributor to best position started almost starting several times. It seemed to really drain thebattery fast and we are always needing to stop and let charger recharge battery before we can continue.

While we were waiting we went to see if any water was getting to motor. Pulled Ft hose from thermostat to Water pump it was dry and a bit crusty washed hose out. Pulled hose from alpha to thermostat and put hose water through it. exited out the inlet side vents in alpha casting RT and LT. Put the large O.D. FT water pump hose back on. Went and put the hose into the thermostat housing figuring maybe we should have some water in the engine to help it prime we waited until we saw it come out at alpha figured it would exit out the prop it seemed to exit out two holes in stern drive under the bellows. Both Bellows looked good no rips and there was no water exiting bellows.
Decided to try and crank it and see if water exited out the Alpha hose taht went to thermostat with the muffs on hose on and engine cranking .
Engine would not crank it strained the starter to the max tried it a few times. Maybe the battery just died but also worried we filled the engine with water somehow. Oil still looked good and at same level in the pan. We stopped for dinner left the battery charger on.
After dinner pulled the plugs and figured try and crank it expecting water to exit out the cylinders it didn't want to turn over. Looked in with flash light really didn?t see water in there. Checked all battery connections and got a very slow crank 1/4 turn before I needed to stop due to battery or some type of engine load. Pulled the alternator belt loose water pump and alternator were free. We stopped for the night.
May try one of my batteries from the car before I run out and buy a new marine battery.
Did I do something bad trying to prime the block with water? Should I have been getting some water from the Alpha to motor while cranking with the muffs & hose running?
Tks
 

fsmd2

Cadet
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
8
Re: First attempts at starting 85 Mercruiser 3.0 /Alpha 1 - need some help...

Hi all, My boys and I are trying to get our project boat started 85 17Ft Sportcraft Ski King with Mercrusier 3.0 and Alpha 1.

I got the boat for a good price and went and bought a used spare alternator and Starter. It looked like the boat had been sitting and hull drain plug took in a lot of water at some point. We did have to spray the cylinders with PB blaster to get it freed up so starter would turn it over and it so far has cranked slow. Not so slow with the plugs out. Compression test was low under 100 all across figured the rings were frozen and should free up if we get it running. We pulled the valve cover and did need to free a stuck valve, seems just rusted in place not bad it popped right up with a screwdriver levering on the spring cap.

Just recently drained water and old water out of bottom end. swapped starter and alternator cleaned tested Carb. and Fuel pump. cleaned Fuel tank Replaced main wiring plug and starter solenoid. checked point gap and confirmed spark. Lifters seemed collapsed on the position that had the stuck valve after cranking some we did start to get oil up the push rods 3 of them didn?t have oil coming out when cranking . Used a syringe with some light oil and got the 3 dry ones filed with oil and felt any blockage clear out pushing hard on syringe through pushrox oil hole. Finally got all the lifters getting oil and rockers fim and looking as they should, replaced the valve cover.

Put Muffs on the outboard with the hose on but didn't look like water was getting up to motor when cranking figured when it started maybe that is when impeller in Alpha would be spinning fast enough. Cranked while slowly rotating Distributor to best position started almost starting several times. It seemed to really drain thebattery fast and we are always needing to stop and let charger recharge battery before we can continue.

While we were waiting we went to see if any water was getting to motor. Pulled Ft hose from thermostat to Water pump it was dry and a bit crusty washed hose out. Pulled hose from alpha to thermostat and put hose water through it. exited out the inlet side vents in alpha casting RT and LT. Put the large O.D. FT water pump hose back on. Went and put the hose into the thermostat housing figuring maybe we should have some water in the engine to help it prime we waited until we saw it come out at alpha figured it would exit out the prop it seemed to exit out two holes in stern drive under the bellows. Both Bellows looked good no rips and there was no water exiting bellows.
Decided to try and crank it and see if water exited out the Alpha hose taht went to thermostat with the muffs on hose on and engine cranking .
Engine would not crank it strained the starter to the max tried it a few times. Maybe the battery just died but also worried we filled the engine with water somehow. Oil still looked good and at same level in the pan. We stopped for dinner left the battery charger on.
After dinner pulled the plugs and figured try and crank it expecting water to exit out the cylinders it didn't want to turn over. Looked in with flash light really didn?t see water in there. Checked all battery connections and got a very slow crank 1/4 turn before I needed to stop due to battery or some type of engine load. Pulled the alternator belt loose water pump and alternator were free. We stopped for the night.
May try one of my batteries from the car before I run out and buy a new marine battery.
Did I do something bad trying to prime the block with water? Should I have been getting some water from the Alpha to motor while cranking with the muffs & hose running?
Tks

Hey there,
I have had similar boats with the conditions you described above, and have had success getting some of them started and useful. I would suggest you replace the impeller in the outdrive, no matter what condition it is in when and if that motor starts it will disintegrate if it has sat for a long time. Now for the motor, trying to reverse what has happened over a long period in a few hours or days is doubtful at best. I would suggest, get some mmo, marvel mystery oil, poor it down each spark plug hole generously, turn the engine over by hand, if not bump the starter just enough to get the oil on the rings and let it sit for a few days. Then turn the engine over by hand and see if it is freeing up, if not repeat the procedure again. PB blaster is good for the initial break free but not good for lubrication. One thing to keep in mind, depending on how long the engine was sitting and also the amount of rust on the bearings you may not like what you hear when it does start. Be prepared for a major overhaul, or repower. Good Luck
 

spdracr39

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
1,238
Re: First attempts at starting 85 Mercruiser 3.0 /Alpha 1 - need some help...

Drain the oil in the outdrive if it is full of water it may be rusted up also creating drag. Before you invest a lot of money trying to get it to run keep in mind that if it sat with water in the hull the floor, transom, foam, and stringers are probably rotten and having the motor running will be the least of your worries.
 

Maclin

Admiral
Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
6,761
Re: First attempts at starting 85 Mercruiser 3.0 /Alpha 1 - need some help...

...Went and put the hose into the thermostat housing figuring maybe we should have some water in the engine to help it prime we waited until we saw it come out at alpha figured it would exit out the prop it seemed to exit out two holes in stern drive under the bellows...


If enough pressure was supplied that the water from the block was coming out the drive then there is a good chance it also ran down the riser into the exhaust manifold and put water into any cylinder where the exhaust valve was not closed. This seems unlikely, but the procedure you used was somewhat out of bounds.

Pull the spark plugs and then crank to see if water comes out.
 

wandrey

Recruit
Joined
Oct 11, 2010
Messages
4
Re: First attempts at starting 85 Mercruiser 3.0 /Alpha 1 - need some help...

Thanks for the replies:
Hey there,
I would suggest you replace the impeller in the outdrive, no matter what condition it is in when and if that motor starts it will disintegrate if it has sat for a long time. ... turn the engine over by hand,
Impeller meaning the waterpump impeller in the outdrive. Its a gen 1 Alpha, so are there some seals I should get also? Or take it down to that point and see what I fing and order from the findings.

Whats the best way to "turn it by hand? the Ft engine mount seems to want to block access to center hex to put a wrench on it.
I'm aware that I could be throwing money away and trying to at least access the motor first then move on from there.
Worse case I will break it down and part it out hate to go there but...


Drain the oil in the outdrive if it is full of water it may be rusted up also creating drag. Before you invest a lot of money trying to get it to run keep in mind that if it sat with water in the hull the floor, transom, foam, and stringers are probably rotten and having the motor running will be the least of your worries.

If i drain the oil do I put gear lube back in or std motor oil- I can do a search .

Floor seems pretty solid we do have one spot in the rear we will cut as it seems a little soft. The transom seems pretty solid doing the weighted load test/deflection check. Hull is real good shape no damages or repairs. We did cut out the floor at gas tank and seems okay there as well as the area under the engine. Gas tank is in real good condition. We will replace the filler hose, for now have it pulling from a gas can.


If enough pressure was supplied that the water from the block was coming out the drive then there is a good chance it also ran down the riser into the exhaust manifold and put water into any cylinder where the exhaust valve was not closed. This seems unlikely, but the procedure you used was somewhat out of bounds.

Pull the spark plugs and then crank to see if water comes out.

No water coming out but also could not get it to turn over enough to see, the battery may be toasted.

I am having a hard time getting a grasp on the manifold / riser and its function. I realize exhaust exits exhaust and cooling water through the casting to the outboard, intake is separated from it But the water passages ? Seems to tie into exhaust but not alow water to flow into exhaust. Is lit like a water dam internally and exhaust pushes the water out mixing with the exhaust ? IF so what prevents the mixture from pushing backwards to water pump? If there is a reservoir dam of sorts, the way we added water would have probably overflowed into a cylinder. If so we did get a partial crank or so on it enough to do a hydro lock on the cylinder i would suspect. letting it sit and now removing plugs seems we should be able to crank it unless that hydro lock put the battery over the edge. It was the battery that came with the boat...
 

Maclin

Admiral
Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
6,761
Re: First attempts at starting 85 Mercruiser 3.0 /Alpha 1 - need some help...

The water should only enter the manifold or riser when the engine is running/cranking. The exhaust pulse blows the water on thru to the drive exit.

My first sentence should have been more like this...

"If enough pressure was supplied that the water from the block was coming out the drive while the engine was not being cranked or running..."

Your description of events sounded like you did the water-into-thermo housing with the engine not running or cranking.
 

wandrey

Recruit
Joined
Oct 11, 2010
Messages
4
Re: First attempts at starting 85 Mercruiser 3.0 /Alpha 1 - need some help...

The water should only enter the manifold or riser when the engine is running/cranking. The exhaust pulse blows the water on thru to the drive exit.

My first sentence should have been more like this...

"If enough pressure was supplied that the water from the block was coming out the drive while the engine was not being cranked or running..."

Your description of events sounded like you did the water-into-thermo housing with the engine not running or cranking.

Yes we did as you stated. Never saw any water coming up from teh outboard unit with the muffs on and hose running. Sounds like impeller should have been giving us some water to the block while cranking. We were not sure if the engine water pump needed a prime and the impeller and water pump work together. Our engine prime ended up being a full blown / lets see where the water exits the outboard and as you stated Should it have been done to that extent. I picked up a spare manifold a while back. I need to take a closer look at it and its passages. Thanks for the follow up.
 

Maclin

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Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
6,761
Re: First attempts at starting 85 Mercruiser 3.0 /Alpha 1 - need some help...

If the engine is hydrolocked you need to pull all spark plugs out now and turn it over by hand if the starter won't turn it over, to get the water out. Then spray in some wd40 in the holes and turn it over some more to displace+replace the remaining water droplets, then put in some plain motor oil and turn it over to relube the walls. If you are wanting to reuse that block and stuff anyways.
 

wandrey

Recruit
Joined
Oct 11, 2010
Messages
4
Re: First attempts at starting 85 Mercruiser 3.0 /Alpha 1 - need some help...

I went into open plug holes and used a hand pump that we use to up fill transmissions- flexible hose with pump similar to a ketchup deipenser at a fast food spot. No water in any of the cylinders. Starter is not liking what it needs to do, smoking and bad smells making me think battery is doing its job.
Heard something like a movement or rotating sound but looking at FT pulley not really moving Up front so either starter is trying so hard its spinning its pinion or something else. Don't want to burn up the starter. Really need to try and get a wrench on the Ft pulley or something so I can get a feel for whats going on at the crankshaft, and try and look under at flywheel to see if there is another bind. The outboard is in netural. Maybe i need to shift it in and out of gear and rotate prop and see if something back there got us locked up. Weird. Not sure if pulling the head would show what we need to see ( only top end and cylinders) All considering it may show quite a bit.
Ken
 

Bondo

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Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
71,444
Re: First attempts at starting 85 Mercruiser 3.0 /Alpha 1 - need some help...

I went into open plug holes and used a hand pump that we use to up fill transmissions- flexible hose with pump similar to a ketchup deipenser at a fast food spot. No water in any of the cylinders. Starter is not liking what it needs to do, smoking and bad smells making me think battery is doing its job.
Heard something like a movement or rotating sound but looking at FT pulley not really moving Up front so either starter is trying so hard its spinning its pinion or something else. Don't want to burn up the starter. Really need to try and get a wrench on the Ft pulley or something so I can get a feel for whats going on at the crankshaft, and try and look under at flywheel to see if there is another bind. The outboard is in netural. Maybe i need to shift it in and out of gear and rotate prop and see if something back there got us locked up. Weird. Not sure if pulling the head would show what we need to see ( only top end and cylinders) All considering it may show quite a bit.
Ken

Ayuh,... Pull the drive OFF,.... It's only 8 nuts, 'n a $7. gasket set to put back on....

Have you checked, 'n changed the oil in the drive,..??
 
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