Chrysler 30hp electric start 2 stroke, runs on when turned off, how old, any charging

Good morning everyone, I hope someone can help me.
I have just bought an old Chrysler 30hp 2 stroke electric start which also has a pull cord, although someone has taken it off!
i don?t know how old the engine is, but i?m guessing 70?s.
On the engine plate it says model number ? 307111D, and serial number ? 1173.
Can anyone tell me how old the engine is?
Also i have a wiring problem, someone has replaced the wiring with caravan wire black cable,although there are white, yellow, green, red, blue and a black cable, also a brown, I managed to connect it up to the ignition switch and I can start the engine, but can?t turn it off as it carries on running, the only way I can stop the engine is by pushing the key inwards which seems to activate the butterfly flap on the carb and closes it which does stop the engine, I assume this isn?t correct?
The ignition switch does seem to be a bit past it, as you can use it without putting the key in, but I have tested it and it seems to be ok, I can?t find any sort of kill switch, and does this engine have battery charging or not?
Even with the engine stopped, if I push the key inwards it makes the butterfly flap close?
sorry for all the questions, been scratching my head all day, and it now hurts!
I need help people.
Thanks
Mike

Re: Chrysler 30hp electric start 2 stroke, runs on when turned off, how old, any char

Those engines are usually electric start, magneto ignition with no battery charging. There will usually be two wires that look like brown lamp cord coming from under the flywheel. These two wires are the kill circuit. Connect them to the white and blue terminals on the engine circuit board. At the ignition switch connect white to one "M" terminal and blue to the other "M" terminal. Now the engine will stop when the switch is turned off. It is correct to have the choke butterfly close when you push in on the key. This is the way to "choke" the engine or enrichen the mixture for cold starting. So, when you do this to stop the engine, you are actually flooding it until it stops.

Re: Chrysler 30hp electric start 2 stroke, runs on when turned off, how old, any char

Are you sure of the engine model number and if you recheck it, could it be 307H1D which would make it a 1981.

If it is a 307H1D, here is the parts list:

http://www.crowleymarine.com/mercury-outboard/1877.cfm
Gerry

Re: Chrysler 30hp electric start 2 stroke, runs on when turned off, how old, any char

Please post pictures of the engine with the engine?s cover off. Include both sides and rear, close shots and full side shot with lower unit?s full leg included. This will help ID the engine. I attached similar pics of a 1970, 35 HP Chrysler (with a 55 HP cover on it).

Re: Chrysler 30hp electric start 2 stroke, runs on when turned off, how old, any char

Hi everyone, many thanks for getting back to me.
I will be going back down to the boat this coming Thursday, so will have another look and see if I can wire up the kill switch,(didn't even know it had one!) that’s the trouble when someone else rewires with different colours then doesn't leave any diagram to show what’s been done, Grrrrrrrrrrrrr
I thought it wasn't right to be using the butterfly flap to stop the engine, I guess keep flooding it isn’t good for it and will make it run lumpy?
Am I right in the petrol/oil mix - 50 to 1?
seems to be quite Smokey and noisy, but then I guess I’m used to my old Honda 4 stroke!
Hi Gerry, I’ve had another look at the model number and it’s quite difficult to read, but it looks like it’s – 307HFD, it’s definitely 307H, then maybe a F and definitely a D
I’m posting some photos of the engine including model number, hopefully this will help.
Thanks a lot
Mike

Re: Chrysler 30hp electric start 2 stroke, runs on when turned off, how old, any char

Based on the photos, that is NOT a magneto ignition engine. Rather, it appears to be first generation electronic ignition. SO: there will not be what looks like brown lamp cord coming out from under the flywheel. HOWEVER: The blue and white wires are still the kill circuit and attach to the two "M" terminals.

Unfortunately, two terminal screws are missing and I can't tell which wires would be the kill wires at the engine terminal board. I also do not see a rectifier so I don't think that engine will recharge the battery while running.

Re: Chrysler 30hp electric start 2 stroke, runs on when turned off, how old, any char

Hi Frank (I assume that’s your name!) Thanks for getting back to me..Unfortunately I don’t know much about outboards, this is all very new to me and I’m learning all the time!
I’m going back down to the boat on Thursday so I’ll try to take some more photos of the wiring etc.

I’m now quite confused by it all, you say it’s probably not a magneto ignition type, but to the left of the connection block is a label and it shows – White-Magneto and - blue – Magneto!

At the moment I just have a red, live, green, choke and yellow, ignition connected to the switch, I can start and operate the choke, but can't turn it off, I don’t even know where or even if I have a kill switch, and do you know what the circuit breaker reset is for?

At the end of the wire that goes to the ignition switch is a white and blue wire, but at the engine end, I don’t know what these are suppose to connect to.

If the engine doesn't charge the battery, can it be modified, or is that not really worth it, it does have a pull cord, but someone had taken that off and it’s minus a cord!

I’m hoping to go away in the boat next week and don’t really want to keep stopping the engine using the choke, especially with all the locks on the Thames!

Cheers.

Mike

Re: Chrysler 30hp electric start 2 stroke, runs on when turned off, how old, any char

Don't get confused: Almost every Chrysler ever made and a lot of Force engines used that decal, even electronic ignition and battery and points ignition--they just never saw a need to change it.

In fact, the ignition switches are labelled "M" for magneto. In magneto AND electronic ignition engines, the blue and white wires connect to the "M" terminals on the switch, and blue and white wires on the engine terminal board. Unfortunately, you don't have these wires at the engine terminal board so we must see what you do have and go from there.

Red is power to the switch, yellow is start, and green is choke (push to choke). The circuit breaker protects the engine wiring from a short so that the whole battery will not dump through a short and fry the whole electrical system. Again, unfortunately, yo have multiple red wires and I can not tell their function.

Now, from existing photos I can not tell ifthe engine has an alternator or how to kill it. A couple of close photos, including the circuit breaker, of the front electrical and the rear CD wiring may help.

Those small 30 HP engines (and 20 and 25) had a cast cage and pull starter mounted on top of the flywheel. Some had the pull cord handle exiting the front of the cover. If you can find a junker, you can replace the pull starter. If not, you can still wind a stout cord around the steel collar on top of the flywheel and pull start that way.

AND: While I am a Chrysler engine fan from way back, Why on earth would you go from a Honda Four stroke to what appears to be a poorly maintained Chrysler 2 stroke?

Re: Chrysler 30hp electric start 2 stroke, runs on when turned off, how old, any char

Hi Frank, thanks for getting back to me, not sure where you are, but I'm in the UK
The boat I bought (23 foot cabin cruiser) a few months back came with a old Honda 10hp 4 stroke manual start which was fine for the canals, but on bringing the boat back to the River Thames it was quite underpowered against the curent and with 4 or more people on it and I was also fed up with having to keep moving the rear seat out of the way to start it, with so many locks to go through it was a bit of a pain.
I wanted a more powerful engine that was electric start but didn't care what make, I did want a 4 stroke as they are quiter etc. but 4 strokes are so much more money then 2 strokes, this came up on ebay for a good price and I bought it last week (?200) which compared to other seemed to be a good price.
It starts and runs ok, just the annoying turning the engine off which I have to sort out.
I will get some more close up photos this Thursday and hopefully that might help me wire it how it should be.
Thanks
Mike

Re: Chrysler 30hp electric start 2 stroke, runs on when turned off, how old, any char

That is a 30Hp from 1980 and up. It has a CD ign. similar to the MagnaPower III whitch was used on the 10 and 15 Hp from midd. 70.s (1975 if I am not wrong). Yellow and blue from under the flywheel is the stator that charge the capacitor in the CD. White/green, orange, red and green from under the wheel are the trigger sign. to the CD. From the CD you also have a orange for the ign.coil, white also ign.coil, black ground and a blue whitch is the stopcircut wire. That engine came with or without a alternator for charging a battery.

Re: Chrysler 30hp electric start 2 stroke, runs on when turned off, how old, any char

Hi Nordan and thanks for the info,are you quite certain of this? what year would you say the engine was? and without this sounding a stupid question, how would I know if it was able to charge a battery, what should I be looking for?? and do you have, or do you know where I could get some sort of wiring diagram so that I can wire it up properlly so I can have the engine turn of?
Thanks

Re: Chrysler 30hp electric start 2 stroke, runs on when turned off, how old, any char

It is from 1980 and up, if it has modelnumber 307H1D it is a 1981. The ign. is similar to the Magnapower III from midd 70.s. It was on 10 and 15Hp.
Later Chrysler called it Magneto CD ign. on the 20,25 and 30Hp 1980-84.
You shall look for a squared black rectifire with four terminals. Two wires connected to the rectifire will come from under the flywheel. One (red) of the other will go to the fuse and the fourth will go to ground. Eigh twires will come out from under the wheel if it has an alternator, six if not. The blue wire from the CD unit is the stopcircuit. You short it out to ground to stop the engine.
I have a wiring diagram in my Clymer workshop manual.

Re: Chrysler 30hp electric start 2 stroke, runs on when turned off, how old, any char

Nordin said:

It is from 1980 and up, if it has modelnumber 307H1D it is a 1981. The ign. is similar to the Magnapower III from midd 70.s. It was on 10 and 15Hp.
Later Chrysler called it Magneto CD ign. on the 20,25 and 30Hp 1980-84.
You shall look for a squared black rectifire with four terminals. Two wires connected to the rectifire will come from under the flywheel. One (red) of the other will go to the fuse and the fourth will go to ground. Eigh twires will come out from under the wheel if it has an alternator, six if not. The blue wire from the CD unit is the stopcircuit. You short it out to ground to stop the engine.
I have a wiring diagram in my Clymer workshop manual.

Click to expand...

Thanks very much for getting back to me with the details, when I next go to the boat on Thursday afternoon, I will have a look and see if I can work out how many wires come out from under the wheel, I don't remember seeing a rectifire unit on it, can you tell by looking at the photos? if it is on there and it does charge the battery, is that done by the cables to the battery from the starter motor?
What is the Neutral interlock switch? Also do you know what the petrol/oil mix, is it 50 - 1?
Many thanks
Mike

Re: Chrysler 30hp electric start 2 stroke, runs on when turned off, how old, any char

The fuelmix is 50:1 .
The neutral interlocking switch cut the power to the startersolenoid if the gearlever isn?t in neutral position.
I can not see any neutral interlocking switch in your pics. It should be mounted behinde the starter at the gearlever.

Re: Chrysler 30hp electric start 2 stroke, runs on when turned off, how old, any char

Hi everyone,
I’ve been back down to the boat and taken some more photos of the engine, hopefully these might help.

The wiring is a bit of a mess, It looks like the engine does have a rectifier, there is a little black box on the top at the back, and there seems to be 8 wires coming from under the wheel

Red, orange, white with green stripe, green, yellow blue, and 2 green with yellow stripes.

I have put a meter on the battery while the engine is running, but there doesn't appear to be any charge going into the battery, not much difference between it running and not running, I assume the battery is charged using the same cables that go to the battery to start it?

I also found the blue wire from the CD unit and touched it to ground when the engine was running, but it made no difference and the engine still carried on running, I'm still having to stop it by using the choke.

Thanks

Mike

Re: Chrysler 30hp electric start 2 stroke, runs on when turned off, how old, any char

Remaining photos.....HELP, supose to be going away in it on saturday!!

Re: Chrysler 30hp electric start 2 stroke, runs on when turned off, how old, any char

The two wires green/yellow are the alternator for charging the battery. I think it starts to charge at about 1000-1200rpm so you have to rev. it up to see if it starts to charge. The voltage should rise from about 12Volt to 15-16Volt at maximum.
Measure at the AC side (terminals were the green/yellow are connected). The voltage should also rise at the DC side when you rev.up the engine.
The rectifire could be fried, then the battery does no charge anywere.

The plug with white/green, orange, green, red are the triggersignals for coil no.1 and 2. (do not know whitch one are for coil 1 and 2.)
Blue wire should be the stopcircuit.
BTW. Do you have a black wire coming out from the CD unit?
If, besure it is connected to good ground. If you do not have a black wire, be very sure the CD unithousing has good ground connection.

The problem with cuting off the engine could be bad ground to the CD unit.
If it would not work..... then you have to choke it to stop.

Re: Chrysler 30hp electric start 2 stroke, runs on when turned off, how old, any char

Hi Nordin, thanks for getting back to me.
Yes there is a black wire from the CD unit which is grounded under one of the screws holding the CD unit on, I will take it off tomorow and give it a clean in case it's not a making a good contact, and I'll take a reading reving the engine up to see if it's charging.
Is the battery chrged through the same cables that are used from the starter to the battery?
And the test you mentioned above, is that a test for the rectifier?
thanks

Re: Chrysler 30hp electric start 2 stroke, runs on when turned off, how old, any char

Hi everyone, me again the pain!!!
Ok, after spending some time on the internet, I?ve managed to find a wiring diagram which I think is for my engine.
Wiring diagram with colour code for the 20, 25, 30 and 35 hp power head with CD, prestolite, magna power 3, all type 3 ignition system.

I have now wired the engine up as the diagram shows, the only thing I don?t have is the Neutral interlock switch, I have also cleaned all the ground contacts and checked all the wiring, and even replaced the yellow wire to the solenoid, unfortunately although it still starts with no problem, I still can?t turn the engine off unless I choke it.

I have uploaded a photo of the wiring diagram, can you tell me if thid diagram is for my engine, I?m now don?t know what to do next.

My starter solenoid has two main connections, one from the battery and the other from the starter, plus an additional 2 small ones on the left, top.

Many thanks

Mike

Re: Chrysler 30hp electric start 2 stroke, runs on when turned off, how old, any char

Yes, that should be for your engine.
Sorry can not help you more than that.
If you can not kill the engine without choke it. Thats it, there is some problem in the CD unit. Changes the unit or leave it as it is.
Is there any problem to kill it with the choke?

Well, you can kill it grounding the primesign. (wires) to the ign.coils. BUT I do not know if it will hurt the CD unit.