water in the bilge mixed with oil cooffee with cream brown ,kinda like baileys irish

Hi guys ,back here for your help again.
I just bought a 1989 doral 17.5 XL with a 4.3 Mercruizer and Alpha 1 drive. The story is: I was told I could purchase the boat and that I could pick it up Tuesday night, the owner wanted to get the boat running good and check it out before I took it as it had been sitting for the last 2 years. he had it running on the muffs for me when I picked it up. i noticed at that time that there was not much water flowing out with the exhust out of the prop area but that most of the cooling water seemed to be coming from the area where the lower end is hinged . I took the boat home put it in the lake and tied it to the wharf overnight. day 2 got the boat going in the morning jumped up on plain and ran like a champ all day . probably put 10 miles on the boat in our little end of the lake . finished off with a sundown cruise with a sub plane return to the wharf. day 3 , i take my son down to the lake to show him starting procedure notice a little oily bilge water and didn't think nothing of it, he took his brothe over to day care a couple of coves over and came back in 10 minutes,he said he was almost didn't make it back because he thought he was running out of gas,then he said it wouldn't go over 3000 rpm and was this normal? previously the boat would run 4400-4600 rpm. so i put some mixed gas i had for an out board in it and took it for a short ride. the boat now won't go over 3500 rpm and is real sluggish getting on plain. on further inspection the water in the bilge is actually very heavy on oil and is coffee cream brown, and there is no oil showing on the dipstick, upon opening the oil fill cap we saw there was white sludge like lythium grease in the tube. the boat still starts although we only did this once. there are no aparent oil leaks . Anyone got any ideas about whats going on with it/ sorry about being long winded. cheers

Re: water in the bilge mixed with oil cooffee with cream brown ,kinda like baileys ir

I'm dealing with a similar thing. You have 2 problems, 1 there is water in the oil and 2 there is an oil leak.

Re: water in the bilge mixed with oil cooffee with cream brown ,kinda like baileys ir

I hate to tell you that it sounds like you have a cracked engine and/or manifolds. You indicated that this boat sat for two years. Was it properly winterized, or just left alone? If left alone, water in the block, heads, and/or manifolds probably froze and cracked the metal. You're looking at some serious part replacements. Sorry. Hy

Re: water in the bilge mixed with oil cooffee with cream brown ,kinda like baileys ir

It has a cracked block at minimum. Most cracked blocks don't show up when running on muffs. That is one of the reasons you NEVER buy a boat without taking it for a test drive out on the water.

PS, on muffs, water normally runs out the exhaust relief ports in the bottom of the transom shield, and very little usually makes it out the prop.

Re: water in the bilge mixed with oil cooffee with cream brown ,kinda like baileys ir

RichardNaugle said:

Hi guys ,back here for your help again.
I just bought a 1989 doral 17.5 XL with a 4.3 Mercruizer and Alpha 1 drive. The story is: I was told I could purchase the boat and that I could pick it up Tuesday night, the owner wanted to get the boat running good and check it out before I took it as it had been sitting for the last 2 years. he had it running on the muffs for me when I picked it up. i noticed at that time that there was not much water flowing out with the exhust out of the prop area but that most of the cooling water seemed to be coming from the area where the lower end is hinged . I took the boat home put it in the lake and tied it to the wharf overnight. day 2 got the boat going in the morning jumped up on plain and ran like a champ all day . probably put 10 miles on the boat in our little end of the lake . finished off with a sundown cruise with a sub plane return to the wharf. day 3 , i take my son down to the lake to show him starting procedure notice a little oily bilge water and didn't think nothing of it, he took his brothe over to day care a couple of coves over and came back in 10 minutes,he said he was almost didn't make it back because he thought he was running out of gas,then he said it wouldn't go over 3000 rpm and was this normal? previously the boat would run 4400-4600 rpm. so i put some mixed gas i had for an out board in it and took it for a short ride. the boat now won't go over 3500 rpm and is real sluggish getting on plain. on further inspection the water in the bilge is actually very heavy on oil and is coffee cream brown, and there is no oil showing on the dipstick, upon opening the oil fill cap we saw there was white sludge like lythium grease in the tube. the boat still starts although we only did this once. there are no aparent oil leaks . Anyone got any ideas about whats going on with it/ sorry about being long winded. cheers

Click to expand...

Ayuh,.... With oil in the bilge, 'n No oil on the dipstick,... I'd say apparently there is an apparent oil Leak....

'n it sounds like the gas might have as much water in it as the oil....

Re: water in the bilge mixed with oil cooffee with cream brown ,kinda like baileys ir

thanks guys. any idea where to go from here?

Re: water in the bilge mixed with oil cooffee with cream brown ,kinda like baileys ir

Shortblock, exhaust manifolds, exhaust risers. Sorry to be the bearer of the bad news.

You can test the manifolds and risers. There's a sticky at the top of the forum in the first page with a manifold check technique that's easy. You use acetone which leaks through cracks more easily than water, so you don't need pressure. Have a look here http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=288629
You can use the same acetone to check the risers, just use some old hoses for the leak tests so that when you go on the water the hoses won't have been affected by the chemical.

But it's nearly certain that the engine is ruined. Inspect for oil on the lower outside of the motor and follow the evidence vertically to find where it came from. Apparently they often crack in the valley between the cylinders under the intake manifold. So wherever the oil is coming from, it still should not be coming out into the bilge, and it should not be caramel or milky, that indicates water in the oil, yet another issue that is from a crack and very rarely from other things.
Face it, the motor is done.
You can get another engine and dress it with the externals from the one you have now. Just don't use the risers and manifolds unless they are known good or you'll prob'ly ruin the 2nd motor, get it?

All these issues come from freeze damage from not draining the cooling system for the winter.

I don't see what made Bond-o think there was water in the gas, maybe it's because that is common on boats left unused for a period of time.

Re: water in the bilge mixed with oil cooffee with cream brown ,kinda like baileys ir

NHGuy said:

Shortblock, exhaust manifolds, exhaust risers. Sorry to be the bearer of the bad news.

You can test the manifolds and risers. There's a sticky at the top of the forum in the first page with a manifold check technique that's easy. You use acetone which leaks through cracks more easily than water, so you don't need pressure. Have a look here http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=288629
You can use the same acetone to check the risers, just use some old hoses for the leak tests so that when you go on the water the hoses won't have been affected by the chemical.

But it's nearly certain that the engine is ruined. Inspect for oil on the lower outside of the motor and follow the evidence vertically to find where it came from. Apparently they often crack in the valley between the cylinders under the intake manifold. So wherever the oil is coming from, it still should not be coming out into the bilge, and it should not be caramel or milky, that indicates water in the oil, yet another issue that is from a crack and very rarely from other things.
Face it, the motor is done.
You can get another engine and dress it with the externals from the one you have now. Just don't use the risers and manifolds unless they are known good or you'll prob'ly ruin the 2nd motor, get it?

All these issues come from freeze damage from not draining the cooling system for the winter.

I don't see what made Bond-o think there was water in the gas, maybe it's because that is common on boats left unused for a period of time.

Click to expand...

he said he was almost didn't make it back because he thought he was running out of gas,then he said it wouldn't go over 3000 rpm and was this normal? previously the boat would run 4400-4600 rpm. so i put some mixed gas i had for an out board in it and took it for a short ride. the boat now won't go over 3500 rpm and is real sluggish getting on plain.

Click to expand...

Ayuh,..... 'cause I see 2 issues gonin' on at the same time....

Check the contents of the fuel filter for crud...

Isolate the block's cooling jacket, 'n pressure test it to find the oil/ water issue....

Re: water in the bilge mixed with oil cooffee with cream brown ,kinda like baileys ir

I hear that, I was thinking it ran badly cause of the lack of lubrication.
Point taken.
I appreciate the "why" of things sometimes.

Re: water in the bilge mixed with oil cooffee with cream brown ,kinda like baileys ir

hi guys. thanks for the input. i cleaned all the oil out of the bilge and drained brown oil out of the engine filled it back up wth new 25w40 /4.5 litre and a new filter. we ran the boat at 1500-2000 rpm for 15-20 minutes in the lake before we started noticing heavy vapour coming out the pcv valve hose. we took the pcv valves out of the valve covers, and what i can only describe as steam was coming out so hot you couldn't hold your hand over it, all the while the temperature gauge was reading around 160' degrees. we took the boat for a short ride ,maybe 1/2 a mile and the ( steam )? coming out of the valve covers was blowing like a steam engine. there developed a heavy white lythyum like scum on the throttle cable mount right above the valve cover opening. still no power by the way, 3500 rpm tops. upon further investigation we found the foam in the underside of the engine cover saturated with oil from the run previous to this. any more ideas ,or does any of this info lead any further to a definitive diagnosis? we also found a few small leaks in the boat so we know where the water was coming from. after observing the engine we saw no visible leakage of oil on the block. another thing when i filled the engine with new oil ( 4.5 l ) the oil came up to the secound l in full on the dipstick,when we got back it was up to the s curl in the stick, maybe the equivalent of half a litre increase in volume, would it be possible for oil to expand that much?

Re: water in the bilge mixed with oil cooffee with cream brown ,kinda like baileys ir

If you are sure the stuff in the bilge didn't come from the engine then it could be an intake manifold gasket. It is not uncommon on the 4.3l. From your earlier post is sounds more serious though.

Re: water in the bilge mixed with oil cooffee with cream brown ,kinda like baileys ir

I want to point out that the more important point here is the steam or hot gas coming out of the pcv holes in the valve covers. would a blown dome gasket cause that? also while we identified the source of the water in the hull it was still contaminated with oil. i think there is water in the engine that is vapourizing and turning to steam and is then carying the engine oil out with it saturating the underside of the engine cover and then dripping down into the bilge. does that sound plausible/ and if so would a dome gasket allow water into the engine to turn into steam and how would it blow out through the valve covers? thanks

Re: water in the bilge mixed with oil cooffee with cream brown ,kinda like baileys ir

RichardNaugle said:

I want to point out that the more important point here is the steam or hot gas coming out of the pcv holes in the valve covers. would a blown dome gasket cause that? also while we identified the source of the water in the hull it was still contaminated with oil. i think there is water in the engine that is vapourizing and turning to steam and is then carying the engine oil out with it saturating the underside of the engine cover and then dripping down into the bilge. does that sound plausible/ and if so would a dome gasket allow water into the engine to turn into steam and how would it blow out through the valve covers? thanks

Click to expand...

Ayuh,.... What the 'ell is a Dome Gasket,..??

My guess is, you've got a junk motor,...
Water in the oil is probably from a Cracked block,...
The Blow-by, aka; yer steam outa the valve covers is from Bad rings, probably from an over-heat...

Re: water in the bilge mixed with oil cooffee with cream brown ,kinda like baileys ir

RichardNaugle said:

I want to point out that the more important point here is the steam or hot gas coming out of the pcv holes in the valve covers. would a blown dome gasket cause that? also while we identified the source of the water in the hull it was still contaminated with oil. i think there is water in the engine that is vapourizing and turning to steam and is then carying the engine oil out with it saturating the underside of the engine cover and then dripping down into the bilge. does that sound plausible/ and if so would a dome gasket allow water into the engine to turn into steam and how would it blow out through the valve covers? thanks

Click to expand...

You have now entered denial mode. It won't help. Your block is filling up with water your engine needs to be replaced. Bite the bullet and start making a plan for repair/replacement. You might can get back on the water this season if you start now.

Re: water in the bilge mixed with oil cooffee with cream brown ,kinda like baileys ir

yup that was what i was thinking.

Re: water in the bilge mixed with oil cooffee with cream brown ,kinda like baileys ir

I have one last question for you kind and knowledgeable gentleman. the boat has been returned to the vendor and I am with a refund in hand. I do not have a clear conscience,having not really been able to discern the reason for the engine failure.Having had the boat in my possession for a matter of hours is there anyway I could of inadvertently caused the engine to fail? I never ran it out of the water or over revved it and but for 1 or 2 high speed runs , never ran it over 3000 rpm. i might have possibly put 10 miles on the boat and maybe 2 hours tops. just looking for a little enlightenment. thanks once again. ps. the vendor is a local guy here and will be repairing the engine in the future, so I will update the thread at that time with the cause of the failure as determined by him. thanks again.

Re: water in the bilge mixed with oil cooffee with cream brown ,kinda like baileys ir

That is a guy to do business with again. It was ethical & proper to take the boat back. And no it is not your fault, it was already broken.
You should feel happy that you did not end up stuck with a broken boat.

Re: water in the bilge mixed with oil cooffee with cream brown ,kinda like baileys ir

Hard to tell what could have happened while sitting idle for two years. if not properly winterized, and the environment is cold (Nova Scotia? Not familiar with the weather extremes up there). I think this was adequately discussed earlier..... Got another boat yet?

Re: water in the bilge mixed with oil cooffee with cream brown ,kinda like baileys ir

You didn't do it. He took it back. All's well that ends well. I wouldn't spend another moment on the "why it happened".