Any West Coast Engine Builder/Dealer Recommendations?

I'm in the search mode for a new Chevy Vortec 5.7L long block for my Alpha 1 (SEI actually) propelled 27' 1986 Sea Ray. No, it's not the original engine but it's what is in there now, so I need something to transfer parts onto (starter, intake manifold, etc.) I've seen the many pro & con posts for new vs. reman and may still go with reman, but first choice is new for now. Having spent several hours looking through the posts on this quite excellent forum, I've noticed a concensus that buying locally is a good idea. But my searches so far seem to show that all the prominent (and reasonably priced) engine builders or new engine dealers are on the East Coast (or at least east of the Mississippi.)

Can anyone recommend an engine builder/dealer closer to Southern California with good service and reasonable prices?

Thanks!

John

PS - I've been lurking for a long time, but this is my first post. I have a lot of experience with cars and boats and have replaced a couple of engines in both (a long time ago.) The outfit I got my last reman engine from is unfortunately out of business. And as many people have pointed out, not everyone who owns a machine shop does a good job. In case you are wondering, the first time in the water with this boat was two days ago. Leaving the Alamitos Bay in Long Beach we got as far as about 2 miles off the breakwater and the engine suddenly overheated. We were able to restart the engine after cooling and the temp was mostly OK on the way back in as long as we kept the rpms around 1500. In my current situation I would rather replace the engine completely than use any major parts from a known bad motor with an unknown history.

Re: Any West Coast Engine Builder/Dealer Recommendations?

Just because it overheated it is not bad? Is it? Sounds like a cooling issue. No amount of new engine with the same cooling parts will fix it, unless the cooling issue is the engine itself. Sounds like an impeller, and cooling check up is in order first.

Re: Any West Coast Engine Builder/Dealer Recommendations?

Failproof,

The rest of the story is that when I noticed the temperature gauge hitting 200-240, reduced engine speed from 4000 to idle, passed the helm to my brother and before I could lift the engine hatch to see if we were hemoraging water, the engine was knocking loudly. As soon as I got the hatch up, I could see white "smoke" pouring out of the starboard side valve cover vent hose. My immediate though was it was oil vapor, but thinking about it later, it must have been steam since I didn't recall any oily odor. In retrospect, maybe shutting down immediately would have been better, but in my experience it is better to keep some water flowing if possible. We did shut the engine down immediately when the knocking got louder and I could see no water in the bilge.

After ten minutes of letting the engine cool and a couple of starts and runs of 20 seconds or so to get water circulating again we started back in at 1500 rpm. The engine was missing but running. Made it back to the launch ramp dock, shut down and had lunch. After lunch the engine just clanked almost as soon as the starter engaged. As near as I can tell, that was due to enough water getting into one of the cylinders in that hour to block the piston. After a few attempts, the engine began turning over. If it was water in the cylinder, there is a path for it to escape too. The engine started and would run but not idle. That made shifting and getting back on the trailer an interesting experience. At home the next day the dip stick was covered in oil-water emulsion. I didn't bother to try turning it over.

Something else I didn't mention is that there was a layer of oil in the bilge under the engine and some sprayed to the starboard side. I doubt it has anything to do with the over heating directly. The oil appears to be getting ejected from where the dip stick tube enters the block. It appears that someone had attempted to solve an existing problem by slopping on some sealer or JB weld. I spent quite a while (several days) going through the electrical, sterndrive and engine systems before putting the boat in the water. Compression was excellent in all cylinders and it looked like a very nice engine. But like that sealer, there were a few other signs that the engine installer had not been quite on the ball - a motor mount nut half backed off, the crank bolt snug but not torqued, etc.

If salvagable at all, the engine will need a major overhaul. (I consider anything that includes the heads comming off as major.) Due to the height of the boat on the trailer it is not going to be a simple "wheel over the cherry picker" operation to pull the old engine or install the new one. A tall gantry or forklift is required, neither of which I have readily available. Since I don't get a chance to get out on the water much and certainly don't want such a failure when the family is aboard and all geared up for a trip to Catalina, I'm going to throw a little more money at this than I might otherwise. In other words, I'm giving up on this engine and going with new.

If anyone reading this is in the north San Diego County area and wants to take the old long block when the necessary parts have been removed for the new engine, post your info here and I'll get in touch.

Still looking for a good place on this side of the US to get an engine from.

John

Re: Any West Coast Engine Builder/Dealer Recommendations?

One other thing, I do intend to replace the manifolds, risers and thermostat housing - a clean sweep.

John

Re: Any West Coast Engine Builder/Dealer Recommendations?

Why not just buy a block and bolt on the accy....Really its just plug and play.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MLL-BP3832CT1/ 4000 in full trim and its all new.

Re: Any West Coast Engine Builder/Dealer Recommendations?

Actually, a long block is what I'm aiming for. Hoping for a GM Marine factory base. I put a car short block in an old Pearson cabin cruiser once and it worked great for 10+ years, but we never really challenged the engine. (Never had both engines in top form at the same time.) But this Sea Ray is a good sized boat and with the short trip we had, it was clear that the engine was going to be spending a lot of time at 3800 - 4000 RPM. I think it would be best to have a long block that is configured from the start with a cam, freeze plugs, etc. intended for marine use.

Blue Print Engines seems to be a good company and that 383 is very attractive. A stroker makes good torque which would be good on this boat.

Thanks for the pointer,

John

Re: Any West Coast Engine Builder/Dealer Recommendations?

Dont get caught up marine base..the word marinized is a better direction...brass plug's..marine dist...starter...carb....altenator...If your in salt and marine intake is the way to go if not just a good old eldobrok. One thing however that's a lot of motor for your drive..no full throllte start's it could snap..Easy up and planning should not be a long term issue. The cam in that engine is plenty tame for marine.

Re: Any West Coast Engine Builder/Dealer Recommendations?

Tail Gunner,

Always good advice. Hole shots are not my thing. Ever since I was a kid I was taught to gradually increase RPM. Hole shots are for ski boats and even then it's not like putting the hammer down in a drag race.

John

Re: Any West Coast Engine Builder/Dealer Recommendations?

Tail_Gunner said:

Why not just buy a block and bolt on the accy....Really its just plug and play.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MLL-BP3832CT1/ 4000 in full trim and its all new.

Click to expand...

You could buy that engine but it is NOT a marine engine. Blueprint does have marine engines though....... (2) 383 models,
Part# MBP3830CT for $4395.00 + shipping I presume.

Fully dressed for $5795.00

http://www.blueprintengines.com/index.php/gm-marine-383


The Summit Racing engine above, is not a marine engine and if you blow it up it in a marine application.......like have a reversion or detonation event, they won't cover it.

Glaspar_Fan said:

I'm in the search mode for a new Chevy Vortec 5.7L long block for my Alpha 1 (SEI actually) propelled 27' 1986 Sea Ray. No, it's not the original engine but it's what is in there now, so I need something to transfer parts onto (starter, intake manifold, etc.) I've seen the many pro & con posts for new vs. reman and may still go with reman, but first choice is new for now.
Thanks!

John

Click to expand...

John, I have had engines rebuilt by a local guy and can R&R my engine when ever I want, so I would have him do it because if there's a problem, I can pull it and take it back.

But if I couldn't, I would want new also. I would probably just get long-block or complete engine from Michigan Motorz or other marine engine supplier that offers a warranty. If I could find someone local that could sell a longblock with a similar warranty I would absolutely do that too.

Be careful buying an engine from someone that is selling too cheap and claiming high HP. They frequently are automotive engines with high compression, wrong camshafts, and lack of other marines "things" like brass core-plugs (but they frequently add those and claim "marine" etc.

The LAST thing you need is a reversion or detonation event half way to Catalina!!

Since you're also going to get new manifolds and risers, I would add closed cooling (if you don't already have it) plus Dry-Joint manifolds and risers.


Cheers,


Rick

Re: Any West Coast Engine Builder/Dealer Recommendations?

http://www.blueprintengines.com/index.php/marine-mbp3830ct




CAM:


.503 intake & .510 ehaust lift, 224 intake & 230 exhaust duration @ .050 - 112 degrees lobe sep.



HORSEPOWER:

405




TORQUE:

450



Now that is intresting...Nice little marine cam good to know they have spent machine time on those vortec's...polished at that... a rubberized oil pan....


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MLL-BP3832CT1/

Engine Assembly, Long Block, Crate Engine, Chevy 383, 6.3L, 330 hp/385 ft/lbs., 4-Bolt Main, Each

That is no race engine...HMMM looks like a tourqey 350 to me err 383.....

Features include:

* 4-bolt main block with one-piece crankshaft seal
* Passenger side dipstick
* Align-honed
* Scat cast iron crankshaft
* Chevy heavy-beam connecting rods with 150,000 bolts
* Hypereutectic pistons
* Hastings moly rings
* Melling oil pump
* Hydraulic camshaft and lifters
* Double roller timing chain set
* Premium cast iron cylinder heads with 2.02 in. intake and 1.60 in. exhaust valves
* Brass freeze plugs
* Oil pan, valve covers, and timing cover
* Dyno-tested

Not going to have a ping pong match but if you itemize all the details...well you be the judge..i do like the chrome cover's well worth the price

Re: Any West Coast Engine Builder/Dealer Recommendations?

Tail_Gunner said:

http://www.blueprintengines.com/index.php/marine-mbp3830ct

Not going to have a ping pong match but if you itemize all the details...well you be the judge..i do like the chrome cover's well worth the price

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Well, I don't play ping-pong........BUT, I would always look VERY closely at the details.

Here's what Summit says.

Auto Crate engines carry a 30-month or 50,000-mile warranty. Marine Crate engines carry a 12-month warranty. Circle Track and short block engines carry no warranty. BluePrint Engines expressly warrants that its engines are of good quality and free from defects in materials or workmanship. Purchaser acknowledges that BluePrint Engines has made no affirmation of fact or promise relating to its engines outside of this limited warranty and BluePrint Engines has provided the purchaser no description, sample, or model of its engines upon which the purchaser has relied in deciding to purchase a BluePrint engine. BluePrint Engines will, at its sole discretion, replace defective parts or a complete engine. All repairs will be made at the seller's or distributor's costs, plus applicable labor. Prior authorization is required from BluePrint Engines before warranty work is begun. Call BluePrint Engines at (888) 808-9573 for a numbered authorization. Warranty claims with BluePrint Engines will take 2-3 weeks to process.

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Just try to get warranty coverage from them on one of their "Auto Crate" engines when they find out that you put it in a boat. Most or ALL the automotive engine rebuilders have a Marine disclaimer in thier limited warranties.....

Here's what Blueprint says on their website.

Your BluePrint engine is designed for a specific application (automobile
or marine) and is only covered by this Limited Warranty when used for
its specified application. BluePrint engine part numbers that begin with
?B? or ?P? are not designed for marine or airboat applications. BluePrint
engine part numbers that begin with ?M? are designed specifically for
marine applications and should not be used in automobiles or airboats.
Any engine used for an application other than the one for which it was
expressly designed will void this Limited Warranty.

Click to expand...

If I buy an engine with a warranty, I would usually NOT intentionally do anything that would void it........

Just saying......



Caveat Emptor!

Re: Any West Coast Engine Builder/Dealer Recommendations?

Thank you everyone for the advice and encouragement. I just got off the phone with Michigan Motorz. I was able to find a number of people on various sites who had good first had experience with them and no complaints. Usually it's the complaints that are easy to find even for good reputable companies. Shipping was on the high side, but the pricing otherwise was very competitive. They have the engines in stock and it should arrive here (Vista is in north San Diego county) in about a week. The guy on the phone was competent and politely and patiently answered all my questions. The only question he didn't have an answer to was regarding the cam specs. He said it comes from GM with the cam in it and so he didn't have that information. But that no one who has ordered the engine has called back to complain about the cam. Something that stood out for me was that MM includes the balancer and recirc water pump. I did ask about the block casting number and it looks like the same one I have, so no problems swapping parts.

So here is what I ordered:

5.7L Vortec Marine engine advertised as 295hp and 355LbFt of torque. $2659
http://www.michiganmotorz.com/350ci-vortec-base-marine-engine-19962012-replacement-p-109.html

OEM Mercruiser exhaust manifolds (2x) $266

Shipping w/ liftgate to the house. $325

So total of $3250 which seems very reasonable. I may have to add risers to that total, but want to pull the ones on there first. They seem to have been replaced recently. I'll post an update once the engine arrives and I've had a look.

PS - with regard to the cooling equipment, I keep the boat on a trailer and flush after trips (or have and will, this boat failed first trip.) Having had first hand experience with raw sea water cooled engines lasting a decade or more in the water, I'm not too concerned about the advantages of fresh water cooling. What is the deal with "dry joint" risers? Seems to be a lot of extra cash. At this point I'm not considering it for two reasons: First, the direct cash outlay. And second, the indirect cash outlay. This is an older Sea Ray set up with 3" wet exhaust. It appears to me (not sure though) that more than just the manifold and riser would have to be changed to accomodate the dry joint setup. JH

Re: Any West Coast Engine Builder/Dealer Recommendations?

What is the deal with "dry joint" risers? Seems to be a lot of extra cash. At this point I'm not considering it for two reasons: First, the direct cash outlay. And second, the indirect cash outlay. This is an older Sea Ray set up with 3" wet exhaust. It appears to me (not sure though) that more than just the manifold and riser would have to be changed to accomodate the dry joint setup. JH

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Sounds like you done your homework!

Dry-joint manifolds and risers eliminate the risk of a manifold-riser leak. No raw water passes from the manifold to the riser thru a water jacket. The water gets there via a hose connection. MANY cases of engine damage and failures have been due to the riser gasket leak. The dry-joint manifolds pretty much eliminate this problem......

Having had first hand experience with raw sea water cooled engines lasting a decade or more in the water, I'm not too concerned about the advantages of fresh water cooling.

Click to expand...

You and a "Zillion" other people too! YMMV. ....I wouldn't go back to raw water cooling! .........I like it but that's just me. Just keep doing what you've always done and you'll be just fine.

I wouldn't worry about the cam. You're not going to get the wrong (non-marine) engine from MM.

Keep us all posted!


Cheers,


Rick

Re: Any West Coast Engine Builder/Dealer Recommendations?

That is the fewest posts that I've seen to get from question to parts ordered for a such a major purchase. Nice work all!

Re: Any West Coast Engine Builder/Dealer Recommendations?

mzahn said:

That is the fewest posts that I've seen to get from question to parts ordered for a such a major purchase. Nice work all!

Click to expand...

AND another "satified" kustomer

Re: Any West Coast Engine Builder/Dealer Recommendations?

HT32BSX115 said:

AND another "satified" kustomer

Click to expand...

Lots of credit to the OP as well...

Re: Any West Coast Engine Builder/Dealer Recommendations?

mzahn said:

That is the fewest posts that I've seen to get from question to parts ordered for a such a major purchase. Nice work all!

Click to expand...

Few posts, but a lot of homework "outside of class". ;-)