OMC outdrive question

I'm getting ready to re-install my outdrive after replacing the engine, and noticed that the splined shaft doesn't spin freely in neutral. Is this normal? To me it feels like a bad bearing, but I'm new to boats, and it only has 180 hours on it. The oil is clean, and there was no sign of water getting to the ujoints or the flanged bearing on the housing. 91 four winns 4.3 OMC Cobra

Re: OMC outdrive question

Howdy,

It's really not going to spin as "freely" as you might think because you're also spinning the raw water pump. It'll take a fair amount of effort to turn the pump and if it's dry, a LOT of effort. Turn it too fast (dry) and you'll be replacing it.

Regards,


Rick

Re: OMC outdrive question

Well, just pulled the top cover off, and there was no oil up there, and a few shavings instead. Has anyone ever filled one back up, and been successful, or am I wasting my time?

Re: OMC outdrive question

Ok, I know that was a stupid question, but, after looking at the gears, they don't look damaged at all (from heat, or metal shards) . I think the shavings are from the bearings. The lower unit spins freely. I think I can just replace the top two bearings and be good (atlhough I'm sure I need to disassemble the whole thing, and clean it. Am I still grasping, or would anyone here do the same?

Re: OMC outdrive question

I'll share the benefit of my bad experiences with you.

Last season, I under filled the OD oil following poorly written instructions from the PO (my fault - should have consulted the manual). Predictably, I toasted my upper unit. The damage was extremely similar to what you describe: the gears were not blue or burned or damaged at all, and the bearings appeared to take the majority of the abuse. I decided not to attempt a repair (NOT a DIY job, it requires special tools), as having it done professionally (if you can even find anyone who does that on OMC anymore) was prohibitively expensive. Instead, I purchased a remaned and tested upper, which I mated to my existing lower.

The lower looked to be in very fine shape (turned freely, very little shavings in the oil), so I thought I'd dodged a bullet. As it turns out, not so much. I fought overheating issues all summer, and finally took it into the shop. They were just as baffled as I was, and replaced most of the parts ('stat, impeller, etc.) that I had already replaced. They ended up replacing all of the seals on the lower, and now everything is perfect. Point being, if the upper is ruined from running it without oil, the entire outdrive requires service, not just the toasty upper.

Unfortunately, I spent about $1500 on the used upper, and another few hundred on parts and labor, not to mention the crapload of time I personally invested, as well as the opportunity cost of a non-functioning boat. It was only after all was said and done that I heard about the SEI conversion kit for OMC powered boats. I truly wish I had known about and explored that option before I spent all of that time and money on an obsolete outdrive. Honestly, the SEI conversion would have cost about as much as I spent, or just a few hundred more. For that I would have had a warranty and a drive that has parts and service readily available. I kick myself on a regular basis for that one.

You've just replaced your engine. For what you will spend on fixing your OMC drive, you could upgrade to a modern unit. That's what you should do - if I had a time machine, it's what I would do.

Good luck.

Re: OMC outdrive question

biggrhammr said:

Ok, I know that was a stupid question, but, after looking at the gears, they don't look damaged at all (from heat, or metal shards) . I think the shavings are from the bearings. The lower unit spins freely. I think I can just replace the top two bearings and be good (atlhough I'm sure I need to disassemble the whole thing, and clean it. Am I still grasping, or would anyone here do the same?

Click to expand...

It appears that someone might have drained and filled the oil last, incorrectly (from the drain "port")......and then ran it (but not long enough to "kill" it immediately)

If you ran any part of the drive without oil. You can "stick a fork in it". It's DONE.

You may be able to disassemble, inspect, clean, and reassemble, But I wouldn't expect much. Run any drive without oil and it usually doesn't even make it 1 lap around the lake.


Sorry about that.


Rick

Re: OMC outdrive question

3 years ago I had an 1988 Bayliner 2152 Cuddy with OMC 5.0 and OMC Cobra o/d.
First OMC Outdrive I ever owner. So I change the oil in the LOWER UNIT and refilled the LOWER UNIT. Well I took it out on the water 50mph across the lake and then DEAD STOP!!! NO MORE crank nothing locked up solid. So I towed it back pulled the boat brought it to my shop and low and behold the upper and lower units are CONNECTED!! the upper unit was dry! I grabbed a 1 1/16 wrench (or what ever fits on the shaft broke it free) drained the oil refilled it from the upper unit this time. Started right up no noise no vibration. Launched it and rode for 2 years no noise no vibration!
SO its a 50/50 shot. Heck try it out run it but stay close to towable range till you feel confident.

PS I did change the fluid one more time after that to check for shavings, fluid was clean no signs of metal

Just my 2 cents

Re: OMC outdrive question

kwikkar said:

Well I took it out on the water 50mph across the lake and then DEAD STOP!!! NO MORE crank nothing locked up solid. So I towed it back pulled the boat brought it to my shop and low and behold the upper and lower units are CONNECTED!! the upper unit was dry! I grabbed a 1 1/16 wrench (or what ever fits on the shaft broke it free) drained the oil refilled it from the upper unit this time. Started right up no noise no vibration. Launched it and rode for 2 years no noise no vibration!
SO its a 50/50 shot. Heck try it out run it but stay close to towable range till you feel confident.

PS I did change the fluid one more time after that to check for shavings, fluid was clean no signs of metal

Just my 2 cents

Click to expand...

Howdy,

I would say more like 20/70..... You are very lucky! my brother had 2 similar events after having "dealers" change the drive oil in his (now mine) OMC 460 King Kobra //1987 Four Winns 211 Liberator.

The first time, the 'mechanic' filled it like a Mercruiser (from the bottom) and called it "good". It made it about halfway around the lake similarly at 50mph before the boat stopped and would not crank.

The dealer replaced the drive.

The second time the dealer (a DIFFERENT dealer ) didn't bother to fill it AT ALL!! This time it ran until it stopped. When my brother looked in the back the water was nearly boiling around the top of the drive (I guess it got a little hot!)

This dealer also replaced the drive (with no lawyering up either time)....

You might get lucky and get the drive back but I wouldn't count on it.


Be ready to replace it.....

Re: OMC outdrive question

kwikkar said:

3 years ago I had an 1988 Bayliner 2152 Cuddy with OMC 5.0 and OMC Cobra o/d.
First OMC Outdrive I ever owner. So I change the oil in the LOWER UNIT and refilled the LOWER UNIT. Well I took it out on the water 50mph across the lake and then DEAD STOP!!! NO MORE crank nothing locked up solid. So I towed it back pulled the boat brought it to my shop and low and behold the upper and lower units are CONNECTED!! the upper unit was dry! I grabbed a 1 1/16 wrench (or what ever fits on the shaft broke it free) drained the oil refilled it from the upper unit this time. Started right up no noise no vibration. Launched it and rode for 2 years no noise no vibration!
SO its a 50/50 shot. Heck try it out run it but stay close to towable range till you feel confident.

PS I did change the fluid one more time after that to check for shavings, fluid was clean no signs of metal

Just my 2 cents

Click to expand...

Wow! that sounds like the miracle I was looking for last night. Well, I took it to my local marine shop, and they will disassemble and inspect it for a $100, but the thing is, I want to be able to take this thing out and worry about nothing but having a good time. I don't want to spend a lot of money (who does?), but I also don't want to hang out 50 yards from the ramp all day, cause I'm scared of having to tow it back. I'll look into the SEI conversion too I guess. Not really excited about throwing $100 away, but also, don't want to chuck a perfectly usable drive (other than replacing bearings). My original thinking was, if all I have to do, is replace the bearings, it was worth it to try to save it, but if I had to throw a gear-set in, then I'd draw the line there, and look at a reman. But, is the general consensus to do the conversion?

Re: OMC outdrive question

HT32BSX115 said:

Howdy,

I would say more like 20/70..... You are very lucky! my brother had 2 similar events after having "dealers" change the drive oil in his (now mine) OMC 460 King Kobra //1987 Four Winns 211 Liberator.

The first time, the 'mechanic' filled it like a Mercruiser (from the bottom) and called it "good". It made it about halfway around the lake similarly at 50mph before the boat stopped and would not crank.

The dealer replaced the drive.

The second time the dealer (a DIFFERENT dealer ) didn't bother to fill it AT ALL!!

This time it ran until it stopped. When my brother looked in the back the water was nearly boiling around the top of the drive (I guess it got a little hot!)

This dealer also replaced the drive (with no lawyering up either time)....

You might get lucky and get the drive back but I wouldn't count on it.


Be ready to replace it.....

Click to expand...

WOW thats nuts.........2 shops and 2 out drives I'll be sure to stay away from those guys.

Like I said that was MY experience 50/50 70/20 either way its a chance. But I'm the type of guy to take one to many chances. Heck when my o/d seized i thought for sure I was gonna sink since I was headed for 10' boulders and wound up on top of them. But again a chance is a chance. Take it if you want or get ready to have it rebuilt. I dunno where you live but there are guys around here that will r&r the drive with new gears and bearings for a $1000 if you have your drive. But then again how good are these guys. I think if I was gonna have the outdrive rebuilt I would have a MAJOR boat sales/repair shop to handle it, will cost more but generally generally quality of work is better. (at least thats my experience as owning a LARGE automotive shop)

GOOD LUCK EITHER WAY!!!!!

Re: OMC outdrive question

I'd like to know where they get their parts, as from what I've seen, the parts alone are $1000.

Anyway, thanks guys, for the advice

Re: OMC outdrive question

Right? But like I said who knows about their quality. Could be using parts from low quality suppliers.

Re: OMC outdrive question

biggrhammr said:

I'd like to know where they get their parts, as from what I've seen, the parts alone are $1000.

Anyway, thanks guys, for the advice

Click to expand...

There's a LOT of parts out there.

Still a Lot for the Cobras unless you have a King Cobra then some parts are no longer available unless you cannibalize a used drive.

An SEI conversion is $350 + the price of a new or used SEI or Mercruiser drive.

Not a bad prospect. If it were me, I would find a similarly powered boat with a Mercruiser engine and drive. (with a cracked block, rotten transom etc) and pull everything and use your engine and the Merc transom & drive. Pick something around 1992 or newer (I think) and you get a GEN II drive.

Good luck,


Rick



Oh by the way, I still have my 1987 Four Winns Liberator.

About 5 years ago, I removed the 460 KingKobra and replaced it with a 1997 Mercruiser 454 + Bravo III (120hrs since new) that I got for $5000 out of a damaged boat.

I then parted out the OMC junk piece by piece for a total of more than $3500

Re: OMC outdrive question

I then parted out the OMC junk piece by piece for a total of more than $3500[/QUOTE]

I'm liking that idea

Re: OMC outdrive question

I only got about $150 for the engine (it needed a rebuild)....... $1450 for the drive, about $350 for the transom mount and "nickles & dimes" for the rest of the various parts sold on craigslist, ebay and word of mouth etc...........

It took me about 3 years or so and I actually still have some of the parts left (including 2 good stainless steel propellers) that I just haven't got around to selling!!

There's people here that probably would want some of this stuff but it's against policy to 'post' here...... so I don't.

I'll probably try to do ebay again this summer.....

Re: OMC outdrive question

kwikkar said:

3 years ago I had an 1988 Bayliner 2152 Cuddy with OMC 5.0 and OMC Cobra o/d.
First OMC Outdrive I ever owner. So I change the oil in the LOWER UNIT and refilled the LOWER UNIT. Well I took it out on the water 50mph across the lake and then DEAD STOP!!! NO MORE crank nothing locked up solid. So I towed it back pulled the boat brought it to my shop and low and behold the upper and lower units are CONNECTED!! the upper unit was dry! I grabbed a 1 1/16 wrench (or what ever fits on the shaft broke it free) drained the oil refilled it from the upper unit this time. Started right up no noise no vibration. Launched it and rode for 2 years no noise no vibration!
SO its a 50/50 shot. Heck try it out run it but stay close to towable range till you feel confident.

PS I did change the fluid one more time after that to check for shavings, fluid was clean no signs of metal

Just my 2 cents

Click to expand...

HELP, we have the exact same problem, what shaft are you talking about turning?

Re: OMC outdrive question

Howdy,
Welcome aboard!


It's MUCH better if you start your own thread. You'll get far more "looks" and replies....

Regards,


Rick