Stereo advice needed from Mark1910 and others

I need some advice for a sound system I am putting in my boat. I'm a newbie to this forum and appreciate any input I receive. I stumbled onto this forum while doing general research and found that there are several knowledgable people here so I thought I'd reach out.

The boat is a 1999 PowerQuest 270 laser (27 ft powerboat)*
Head unit- Clarion M502 w/ MW2 wired remote*
Subs- (2) MB Quart 304d 12" subs
Mids/Highs- (8) MB Quart FSB216 6.5"
Amps- Memphis 16MAD600 and RF punch 1000 4 (old school)

Obviously I'm not looking for a real high end sound system. I'm just wanting something that sounds good. The reason for updating from the Sony system I currently have is that I'd like Bluetooth and to be able to hear the sound clearly over the engines (twin 350's). I had a local installer come out, make measurements and provide recommendations. His advice is to mount the subs in the engine compartment facing outward toward the seats. He says this will create the bass we're looking for. As far as the 6.5's they will be mounted in several different locations, 2 in the cuddy, 1 on each of the consoles (dashboards) and two on each side of the boat in the cubby holes. He advised to run the subs off of the Memphis amp and everything else off of the Punch.*

My objective is to have a clear/good sound that will perform well over the sound of the engines without breaking the bank. I would appreciate any input/suggestions that will make this project smoother/better. Unlike one of the other posts I read where money was no object and the guy didn't seem to appreciate input, money is an object for me and I NEED input from guys that have "been there and done that."

Re: Stereo advice needed from Mark1910 and others

Who's this "mark1910" guy you speak of and who is this "installer" that's telling you to run this stuff?

Ok.. some thoughts:

It seems first that you're not scared to run pure non-marine equipment other than the head unit. I can't really advise you either way, except to remind you that you run the risk of not having things last very long if you don't keep them watertight. Up to you.

It looks to me that you want some serious sound since you're trying to scream over the top of twin 350s. Know that pretty much no matter what you do, you're not going to be hearing any bass while you're under way. The ambient noise of those engines and rushing air will suck away those frequencies in a heartbeat. It's bad enough in a simple 3.0L/4.3L powered bow rider. So.. it's up to you how much energy you want to spend trying to get bass. Know that you'll only be hearing/playing with it when you're stopped.

Let's look at your equipment choices. My off the cuff reaction to the other guys choices is that he's a car audio guy and has never done boats. I could be wrong, but looking at these choices makes me wonder.


Head unit- Clarion M502 w/ MW2 wired remote* - Good choice. Highly recommend Clarion head units for longevity. Pick whichever model looks best to you.

Subs- (2) MB Quart 304d 12" subs - As stated previously, you're hard pressed to get decent bass on a boat. You need serious power behind them in order to make much sound. With how he is telling you to mount the subs, you'll be creating zero resonance which means virtually zero sound. You need a ported box/tube that's firing into/up under something such as your dash. The easiest way to do this is to retrofit Bazooka tubes with better quality subwoofers and then drive the heck out of them with a proper amp. So.. let's put this on the backburner for now until you think more about whether or not you'd like to deal with this.

Mids/Highs- (8) MB Quart FSB216 6.5" - While these are good speakers for cars, I would not recommend them for boats. These are "seperates".. meaning a seperate 6.5" driver with a tweeter that's divided by a separate crossover module. Those modules do not like moisture.. at all. Also, since you'll be running 8 of them.. that's 16 holes that you'll be cutting in your boat. Just making you aware. I can't say too much being as that I have 12 tweeters along with 20 coax speakers in my boat, but my boat is a moving stereo project. It's all what you're trying to accomplish. One concern that I have for you though is that you want it to be LOUD. Those MB Quarts are not going to be super loud. Personally, in your case I would recommend a good quality marine coax speaker. The best marine coax speaker that sounds the best when turned way up is Infinity, hands down. Polks and some others sound good at lower volumes, but for screaming, clear sound.. Infinity is the way to go. The only drawback is that they look kind of flashy and not everyone goes for the aesthetics. You get over them though and they look damn nice to me. http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Refe...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1338473277&sr=1-1

Amps- Memphis 16MAD600 and RF punch 1000 4 (old school) - No, no no. That Memphis amp is stupidly over priced ($500??) and not even putting out what other marine amps for 1/5th that price are. 50w x 4 isn't even what a $100 MB Quart marine amp puts out at 60w x 4. Also, stay away from 5 channel amps where you're trying to run a sub off the 5th channel. You'll have massive overheating problems. Since you're obviously not worried about running non-marine equipment, I would run the flagship HiFonics series 200w x 4 amp @ 2 ohms with a solid wiring job.. or if you have space, run 2 of them. http://www.amazon.com/Hifonics-GLX1...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1338473471&sr=1-1 HiFonics is some seriously quality stuff and at killer prices. Highly, highly recommended.

If you really want to do subs and only have so much room, run one of those amps and then a HiFonics BRZ1200D mono block http://www.amazon.com/Hifonics-Brutus-BRZ1200-1D-D-Class-Block/dp/tech-data/B0036B8URK/ref=de_a_smtd. It's class D which means it's 1 ohm stable.. 2 ohms won't even make it get warm.. and it's more power than you can handle. Trust me.

WHATEVER you choose to do, make SURE to use marine grade power cable of at least 4AWG with super high grade installation accessories.


Does all that help?

Re: Stereo advice needed from Mark1910 and others

Jackallion said:

I need some advice for a sound system I am putting in my boat. I'm a newbie to this forum and appreciate any input I receive. I stumbled onto this forum while doing general research and found that there are several knowledgable people here so I thought I'd reach out.

The boat is a 1999 PowerQuest 270 laser (27 ft powerboat)*
Head unit- Clarion M502 w/ MW2 wired remote*
Subs- (2) MB Quart 304d 12" subs
Mids/Highs- (8) MB Quart FSB216 6.5"
Amps- Memphis 16MAD600 and RF punch 1000 4 (old school)

Obviously I'm not looking for a real high end sound system. I'm just wanting something that sounds good. The reason for updating from the Sony system I currently have is that I'd like Bluetooth and to be able to hear the sound clearly over the engines (twin 350's). I had a local installer come out, make measurements and provide recommendations. His advice is to mount the subs in the engine compartment facing outward toward the seats. He says this will create the bass we're looking for. As far as the 6.5's they will be mounted in several different locations, 2 in the cuddy, 1 on each of the consoles (dashboards) and two on each side of the boat in the cubby holes. He advised to run the subs off of the Memphis amp and everything else off of the Punch.*

My objective is to have a clear/good sound that will perform well over the sound of the engines without breaking the bank. I would appreciate any input/suggestions that will make this project smoother/better. Unlike one of the other posts I read where money was no object and the guy didn't seem to appreciate input, money is an object for me and I NEED input from guys that have "been there and done that."

Click to expand...

mark1905 said:

Who's this "mark1910" guy you speak of and who is this "installer" that's telling you to run this stuff?

Ok.. some thoughts:

It seems first that you're not scared to run pure non-marine equipment other than the head unit. I can't really advise you either way, except to remind you that you run the risk of not having things last very long if you don't keep them watertight. Up to you.

It looks to me that you want some serious sound since you're trying to scream over the top of twin 350s. Know that pretty much no matter what you do, you're not going to be hearing any bass while you're under way. The ambient noise of those engines and rushing air will suck away those frequencies in a heartbeat. It's bad enough in a simple 3.0L/4.3L powered bow rider. So.. it's up to you how much energy you want to spend trying to get bass. Know that you'll only be hearing/playing with it when you're stopped.

Let's look at your equipment choices. My off the cuff reaction to the other guys choices is that he's a car audio guy and has never done boats. I could be wrong, but looking at these choices makes me wonder.


Head unit- Clarion M502 w/ MW2 wired remote* - Good choice. Highly recommend Clarion head units for longevity. Pick whichever model looks best to you.

Subs- (2) MB Quart 304d 12" subs - As stated previously, you're hard pressed to get decent bass on a boat. You need serious power behind them in order to make much sound. With how he is telling you to mount the subs, you'll be creating zero resonance which means virtually zero sound. You need a ported box/tube that's firing into/up under something such as your dash. The easiest way to do this is to retrofit Bazooka tubes with better quality subwoofers and then drive the heck out of them with a proper amp. So.. let's put this on the backburner for now until you think more about whether or not you'd like to deal with this.

Mids/Highs- (8) MB Quart FSB216 6.5" - While these are good speakers for cars, I would not recommend them for boats. These are "seperates".. meaning a seperate 6.5" driver with a tweeter that's divided by a separate crossover module. Those modules do not like moisture.. at all. Also, since you'll be running 8 of them.. that's 16 holes that you'll be cutting in your boat. Just making you aware. I can't say too much being as that I have 12 tweeters along with 20 coax speakers in my boat, but my boat is a moving stereo project. It's all what you're trying to accomplish. One concern that I have for you though is that you want it to be LOUD. Those MB Quarts are not going to be super loud. Personally, in your case I would recommend a good quality marine coax speaker. The best marine coax speaker that sounds the best when turned way up is Infinity, hands down. Polks and some others sound good at lower volumes, but for screaming, clear sound.. Infinity is the way to go. The only drawback is that they look kind of flashy and not everyone goes for the aesthetics. You get over them though and they look damn nice to me. http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Refe...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1338473277&sr=1-1

Amps- Memphis 16MAD600 and RF punch 1000 4 (old school) - No, no no. That Memphis amp is stupidly over priced ($500??) and not even putting out what other marine amps for 1/5th that price are. 50w x 4 isn't even what a $100 MB Quart marine amp puts out at 60w x 4. Also, stay away from 5 channel amps where you're trying to run a sub off the 5th channel. You'll have massive overheating problems. Since you're obviously not worried about running non-marine equipment, I would run the flagship HiFonics series 200w x 4 amp @ 2 ohms with a solid wiring job.. or if you have space, run 2 of them. http://www.amazon.com/Hifonics-GLX1...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1338473471&sr=1-1 HiFonics is some seriously quality stuff and at killer prices. Highly, highly recommended.

If you really want to do subs and only have so much room, run one of those amps and then a HiFonics BRZ1200D mono block http://www.amazon.com/Hifonics-Brutus-BRZ1200-1D-D-Class-Block/dp/tech-data/B0036B8URK/ref=de_a_smtd. It's class D which means it's 1 ohm stable.. 2 ohms won't even make it get warm.. and it's more power than you can handle. Trust me.

WHATEVER you choose to do, make SURE to use marine grade power cable of at least 4AWG with super high grade installation accessories.


Does all that help?

Click to expand...

Thanks Mark! I'm glad that you responded even though I didn't get your handle right. That's all good information and I'll take time later tonight to research/price your suggestions. After reading several of your posts I was really sold on the bazooka/pioneer combo. So I had the installer meet me at the marina today to discuss and take more measurements. My main concern is hearing the subs over the engine without there being a closed environment like a car or truck cabin. He is very confident that the bass will bounce off of the front of the cockpit and create the desired sound. I talked with him about the bazookas but there isn't a feasible place to mount them on my boat. The best option i could find was under the back of the two cockpit seats but they wouldn't work there either. To answer your question about his background, he has primarily been an install manager for a local custom stereo shop. He says that he has done 4 boats and two had basically the same layout as mine. I'm not extremely confident about his knowledge of marine stereo systems that's why I reached out to you. BTW after remeasuring today and examining the engine bay the new plan is 4 10" subs at the bottom of the back seat (behind the passengers calf basically). He says that I'll need a custom box built to fit 4 10" subs in the engine bay facing the front of the boat as opposed to the 2 12's, 2 6.5" in the same location (spaced on the outer sides of the subs), 2 6.5" on both side gunnels, 1 6.5" on the side of each dash and 2 6.5" in the entrance (floor) of the cuddy cabin.

I'm probably going to replace the speakers with your suggestions. I already have both amps so if at all possible I'd love to hear of a way to use them. There shouldn't be a problem with the amps not being marine. They will be mounted inside a compartment behind the passenger dash. I currently have the Memphis mounted on the wall of this compartment and it's bone dry. It is currently pushing 6 Pyle (not great I know) speakers. I guess I should consider myself lucky because when the engines are off I'm perfectly content with their sound.*

If what I'm trying to do is not achievable please let me know. I'm not beyond scrapping this project rather than throwing good money overboard. I've owned this boat for 2 years and have definitely learned what the acronym B.O.A.T. means and if I have to save this 1500 I want be too heartbroken. Lol*

Once again thank you for your suggestions.

Re: Stereo advice needed from Mark1910 and others

Silvertip is going to love this thread...

Re: Stereo advice needed from Mark1910 and others

Hey.. smoke if you got 'em! Those amps will work just fine if you already have them and want to use them. I misread that you already did.

4 10"s, hm? Just make sure that he's building a vented box for them and not trying to run a sealed unit as you'll need all the help you can get with that air movement. Other than that, sounds like you have it handled! Everything is achievable, per se.. it's just a matter of getting the most bang for your buck.

If you're going through all that trouble to put in 4 10" subs, then I would drive them with something stronger than that Punch 1000. I'm assuming that if you're running 4 subs, that they're 8 ohm subs wired in parallel for a total load at the amp of 2 ohms. At 2 ohms, that Punch amp only puts out 500w RMS.. which means that each sub is only getting 125W RMS a piece. That isn't enough to do anything with.. seriously. While 4 subs may LOOK impressive, unless you're driving the hell out of them on that boat.. they aren't going to sound like anything. You need to be putting out a minimum of 300-400W RMS to each sub which means you need amp that will make 1200w - 1600w RMS @ 2 ohms.

The problem is that there aren't any 8 ohm 10" subs out there that handle more than 250w RMS. People these days are using less subs and powering them better now that amps are so cheap.


I would get the HiFonics Gladiator series GLX1800.1D which will make EASILY 1800w RMS @ 1 ohm. The Gladiator series is their top of the line stuff and it doesn't get any better.. http://www.amazon.com/Hifonics-GLX2...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1338607486&sr=1-1

If you're going 10", then I would go with 2 DVC 4 ohm Pioneer comp 10"s which allows you to run them @ 2 ohms/each because of the dual voice coils - http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-TS-W2...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1338608222&sr=1-1

If you can fit 2 - 12"s, then do that. I would definitely drive the heck out of 2 good subs over barely driving 4. Liiiiiiiiiiisten to meeeeeeeeeeeee.

That will give you 900w RMS per sub. You put in that combo, and you WILL rattle your teeth.. provided that a good vented box is built.


That's my advice

Re: Stereo advice needed from Mark1910 and others

mark1905 said:

Hey.. smoke if you got 'em! Those amps will work just fine if you already have them and want to use them. I misread that you already did.

4 10"s, hm? Just make sure that he's building a vented box for them and not trying to run a sealed unit as you'll need all the help you can get with that air movement. Other than that, sounds like you have it handled! Everything is achievable, per se.. it's just a matter of getting the most bang for your buck.

If you're going through all that trouble to put in 4 10" subs, then I would drive them with something stronger than that Punch 1000. I'm assuming that if you're running 4 subs, that they're 8 ohm subs wired in parallel for a total load at the amp of 2 ohms. At 2 ohms, that Punch amp only puts out 500w RMS.. which means that each sub is only getting 125W RMS a piece. That isn't enough to do anything with.. seriously. While 4 subs may LOOK impressive, unless you're driving the hell out of them on that boat.. they aren't going to sound like anything. You need to be putting out a minimum of 300-400W RMS to each sub which means you need amp that will make 1200w - 1600w RMS @ 2 ohms.

The problem is that there aren't any 8 ohm 10" subs out there that handle more than 250w RMS. People these days are using less subs and powering them better now that amps are so cheap.


I would get the HiFonics Gladiator series GLX1800.1D which will make EASILY 1800w RMS @ 1 ohm. The Gladiator series is their top of the line stuff and it doesn't get any better.. http://www.amazon.com/Hifonics-GLX2...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1338607486&sr=1-1

If you're going 10", then I would go with 2 DVC 4 ohm Pioneer comp 10"s which allows you to run them @ 2 ohms/each because of the dual voice coils - http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-TS-W2...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1338608222&sr=1-1

If you can fit 2 - 12"s, then do that. I would definitely drive the heck out of 2 good subs over barely driving 4. Liiiiiiiiiiisten to meeeeeeeeeeeee.

That will give you 900w RMS per sub. You put in that combo, and you WILL rattle your teeth.. provided that a good vented box is built.


That's my advice

Click to expand...

I'm a little confused..are you saying that I'm better off running two 12's than 4 10's? If so then that's what I'll do. I've been told by several people that the power 1000 4 will make subs do whatever I need them to do. (they may be wrong)

Let's approach this from a different angle. If you had a power 1000 4, Memphis 600 and needed a sound system that wouldnt exceed $1500 what would you do? Please let me know not only the equipment but the mounting location as well.

Thank you!!!

Re: Stereo advice needed from Mark1910 and others

I could see how that last post could be a little confusing.. lol. I'll try and make this more cut and dry.

Main principle: To achieve decent bass response on a boat, you need to drive things twice as hard if not more than in a car because you're fighting the element of open and moving air.

The specs on that RF Punch 1000 amp are: 250W x 1 @ 4-Ohms, 500W x 1 @ 2-Ohms, 1000W x 1 @ 1-Ohm (RMS)

If you hook up 4 speakers to that amp, the only way to do it would be to use 8 ohm speakers in parallel which would give you a 2 ohm load at the amp. That would mean that each speaker is only seeing 125W. That is not enough to do anything with in a boat.. and barely in a car.

Instead of barely driving 4 - 10" subs, I would drive the living daylights out of 2 - 12" subs. If you only used 2 subs, you could use 2 ohm models wired in parallel that would give you a 1 ohm load at the amp.. which with that RF amp would mean 500w/sub. I would use those Pioneers just in case later on down the road you'd like to give even more power to them. There really isn't anything else that can handle much over 300-400w RMS that isn't stupidly priced. You would use the 4ohm dual voice coil model and wire the two voice coils in parallel on the sub itself to make the overall load per sub 2 ohms. 2 of those wired like that = 1 ohm load at the amp. http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-TS-W3...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1338639353&sr=1-1

So.. at this point, you're only expense of equipment is $140 x 2 = $280


For your highs, I would get the Infinity 612m 6.5" marine coax. IF YOU CAN FIT the 6x9 model, then by all means.. go that route. They have a bigger magnet and slightly larger tweeter and do put out better sound. You can use a combination of the two types depending on your mounting area availability.

$80 for the 6.5" - http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Refe...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1338639478&sr=1-1

$91 for the 6x9" - http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Refe...3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1338639478&sr=1-3

So, assuming worst case.. 8 x $91 = $728 So.. now you're up to $1008 for the subs and high speakers. The rest of your $1500 budget will be spent on building the box and installation.. easily.

As for placement, that's completely impossible for me to know because I have no idea what your boat looks like. All I can say is to try and fit the 6x9s over the 6.5s, and for max sound to try and make the high speakers face you or your guests as much as possible.

I know I harp on this a lot, but make sure that car audio guy only uses marine power cable! Buy it yourself if you have to and give it to him to use!


Is that better?

Re: Stereo advice needed from Mark1910 and others

That's EXCELLENT! Thank you for the clarification! I'll get the speakers ordered and begin the project.

Once again thank you!

Re: Stereo advice needed from Mark1910 and others

Of course!! Before you order everything up, I would scout out and measure all of your proposed mounting locations to see where you can fit the 6x9s and where you can fit the 6.5s. Again.. fit the 6x9s wherever you possibly can. Get creative.

You should see my boat.. oy vey..

Make sure your installer guy doesn't try to talk you into a sealed box. Use a ported box with at least 3" ports.. those subs move some serious air.

Also, I'm sure you've probably seen me spouting off about how great and cheap Amazon is. Use them! Sign up for the free Prime trial and get free 2 day shipping!

Re: Stereo advice needed from Mark1910 and others

We took lots of measurements the other day. I just need to call him and see if the 6x9's will work. I'm including a link to photos of the interior design so you can see the space I'm working with. The engine compartment is under the back seat. This is the proposed location for the subs and 2 other speakers. The gunnels near the floor run along both sides, this is where 2 sets (one on each side at the back) will go. There will also be 2 speakers mounted (factory design) just as you enter the cabin area. I'm toying with the idea of having two more in the cockpit area. There are dash boards on the captain and passenger side. I'm thinking this will be a good spot for 1 each. As you enter the cabin area there is a small door about 20" high and 4" wide that opens into a compartment where the amps will be located. This keeps the "marine" part from being an issue. I'll pretty much be designing this on your recommendations.

http://www.powerboatlistings.com/view/9819

I did see two pictures of your boat that gave me a vague idea of your speaker placement. I wish I had the room under the dashboards for the bazookas like you, but unfortunately I don't.

As far as Amazon I've been using them for years now and I totally agree about it being the goto place for most everything.

Once again thank you for your advice and prompt replies.

Re: Stereo advice needed from Mark1910 and others

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeew. That's a nice vessel you have there, sir.

You're planning on all the speakers on the engine compartment to facing out, not enclosed within the compartment.. right?


Man.. after looking at the pics of your color scheme.. I'm kind of cringing about sticking chrome and blue speakers all over a beautiful red/white boat. Yeesh. I'm tempted to say go for those MB Quarts since they're black and you can keep the modules dry if you wire the speakers correctly and keep them uber water tight. With that beautiful of a boat, you can't help but think about aesthetics as well as the sound.


Hold tight. Let's think about the highs for a second. Hold on. Sub choice.. definitely. Highs.. give me until Sunday night to throw some more recommendations at you.