Winterizing Surprise

Ron Everson

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Apr 18, 2003
Messages
114
Winterized the 1975 225 OMC Saturday as ususal, drained it and left it dry. On Sunday I expected to do the same with the 1989 OMC 460 King Cobra for the first time since I bought it. I discovered that the block has no drain plugs. Some kind of permanent plugs were in their place. 460 truck block replaced the original a few years ago and the marina did something funny there when they did the replacment for the former owner. Pulled off the manifold drain caps and only a few drips came out. The manifold drains are so plugged with rust that my ususal screw driver reaming wouldn't penetrate far enough to get water flowing, and it was a long screw driver. Apparently the Marina at Hall's Crossing that used to winterize the boat for the former owner never drained anything - just ran anti-freeze into the cooling system. Looks like I'll have to get some muffs and do the wet method with anti-freeze, at least for this year. I could jerk off the manifolds and clean them out or replace, but I still couldn't drain the block. What a mess! Another wonderfull day in the life of an old boat owner. Any comments or consolation?
 

Bondo

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Re: Winterizing Surprise

Some kind of permanent plugs were in their place.
There's No Such Thing as a Permanent Plug,.............<br />It just depends on How Hard you have to Work to Remove It.....................<br /><br />The Only Question I see is,...........<br /><br />Are you going to Do It Now,................... Or Later,...????.........<br />
Pulled off the manifold drain caps and only a few drips came out. The manifold drains are so plugged with rust that my ususal screw driver reaming wouldn't penetrate far enough to get water flowing, and it was a long screw driver. Apparently the Marina at Hall's Crossing that used to winterize the boat for the former owner never drained anything - just ran anti-freeze into the cooling system.
Ayuh,..............<br /><br />So Much for the #1 Reason that's been givin in the Wet or Dry Debate,.. as Why Anybody Should use AntiFreeze of Any Kind to Pickle an engine,.......................<br /><br />Ayuh,........ Lot's of Corrosion Protection Going On There,..???.................... :rolleyes: <br /><br />Air Doesn't Freeze,..........<br />And,......<br />Air,.. By Itself,... Doesn't Cause or Promote Corrosion Either.............. ;)
 

Scaaty

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May 31, 2004
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Re: Winterizing Surprise

Originally posted by Ron Everson:<br /> Another wonderfull day in the life of an old boat owner. Any comments or consolation?
Been there, done that.... :D You are not alone!
 

Lou C

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Nov 10, 2002
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Re: Winterizing Surprise

Bondo, sorry to disagree with you on this, but the physics of corrosion is that oxygen in the air is the culprit, "iron oxide"=rust, which is iron combining with oxygen in the air. If I leave a piece of steel or cast iron in the garage for the 5-6 months that marine engines are stored, it for sure will start rusting. I know you can leave unprotected steel out in the elements in the arid Southwest and it won't rust for a long time, but here....<br />Here, air, all by itself, which contains oxygen+ moisture, and some salt from the Sound, has no problem rusting unprotected steel and cast iron.<br />In fact, in the case of aluminum, it oxidizes so fast you have to hit it with a special prepartion before priming it for painting, or the paint/primer won't hold for long.
 

Bondo

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Re: Winterizing Surprise

Lou,....... You're Reading into it,.... What I'm Not Saying,......<br />
Air,.. By Itself ,... Doesn't Cause or Promote Corrosion Either.............. ;)
 

Lou C

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Nov 10, 2002
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11,802
Re: Winterizing Surprise

But doesn't air, by itself, contain O2??<br /> Air=78% nitrogen, and 21% oxygen...argon less than 1%<br /><br />BTW, Everson be careful with those manifolds, they are VERY hard to find. I think your experience speaks well for removing the drain plugs every year. If that was a truck block, and they used AF when it was in a truck, then it shouldn't have been that corroded inside. But who knows what the first couple of owners did with that engine...<br />I tried that 5 gallon tank from WM the first year to suck up the AF, but the motor started to run hot on it, maybe it is too hard to pull up the AF since it is more dense than water. I found that a Rule 700 GPH aerator pump will screw right into the threads, I use it to flush my drum brakes when no hose it at the ramp, I bet that'd make a good 'powered' winterizer! I'd try it this year but I prefer to drain and backfill the old way.
 

Ron Everson

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Apr 18, 2003
Messages
114
Re: Winterizing Surprise

It was a new truck block, maybe 4 years ago. Did some exploring last night. Did the human pretzel in order to see (just barely) the area in the block on the starboard side where the drain plug should be. There's a brass freeze plug there with a shiny (stainless?) plug in the middle of it. The shiny plug has black goop around it to seal it in. No way to take it out without knocking out the freeze plug. After looking around a little more it became obvious that the block is cooled with the closed (anti-freeze) cooling system (heat exchanger sits on top of the engine), so it doesn't need to be drained. Eventually the coolant will need to be changed and the system flushed to maintain anti-corrosion properties, so I'll have to figure it out then. In the mean time, the block doesn't need to be drained. The manifolds appear to have a through feed/drain tube that runs along the bottom. I'm thinking that by removing the drain cap at the stern and the feed hose forward, I can rod and flush that tube clean from the forward side, which is much more accessible, and I won't have to remove the manifolds. The power steering and oil heat exchangers can be drained by removing the hose at the lowest point. The closed cooling system heat exchanger on top of the motor can be drained (raw water side) by removing the hose at the back and blowing compressed air through from the front for insurance. I think I've got it figured out. Didn't really want to use antifreeze, anyway. We'll see how it works this weekend.
 

Laddies

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Sep 10, 2004
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Re: Winterizing Surprise

The freeze plug with the plate and goop on it is so the mechanic can tell if the engine was overheated in case of a engine failure
 

Ron Everson

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Apr 18, 2003
Messages
114
Re: Winterizing Surprise

I suppose I should ask the question: does anyone know if the tube-shape at the bottom of the exhaust manifold on the 1989 460 OMC King Cobra that has the drain cap on one end and the intake hose on the other is open from one end to the other, so I can rod all the way through to clean it out? If not, I guess I'll have to rod from the drain cap end (really bad access) with the water hose hooked to the hose at the inlet end. I definitely need to practice yoga before crawling into the space on the starboard side of the engine compartment to get at the drain cap on that side. The port side is so tight that I have to lay on the motor and work my head down into the small space to see what's going on - and it only fits in a certain way. Age has not improved my vision and upside-down does not help.
 

Ron Everson

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 18, 2003
Messages
114
Re: Winterizing Surprise

Laddies, I'm wondering whether I have to remove a freeze plug to drain the block when it's time to replace the anti-freeze. I've replace a blown-out freeze plug on a 1959 50 hp Johnson Super Seahorse before, and that was easy compared to this. How tough is it to remove and replace a freeze plug? The location makes it real tough for me.
 

Bondo

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Re: Winterizing Surprise

Ron,.....<br />Forget about Knocking Out a Coreplug/Freezeplug,.......<br /><br />Keep Looking,.... Down along the Bottom rail of the Block,.. just above the oil Pan,.. There'll be a Drain Plug,....................<br />It may not look like any other you've seen before,... But There'll Be a Drain Plug.........<br /><br />It Might look like a 9/16ths" Nut,.....It Might look like a pipe plug with a Hex drive,..... Or Square drive,......Whatever,........<br />There Has to be a Block Drain Hole,+ there's a Plug of some sort In it............. ;)
 

Lou C

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Re: Winterizing Surprise

From my 88 OMC manual, the drains for the block on the 460 are on the extreme rear lower corner of the block on the port side, and in between the starter and motor mount on the starbord side. I'd look for plugs screwed in to those areas, that's where the factory located their drains. To drain the manifolds, you remove the rubber caps, that may be on both front and rear ends of the manifold. Go over to www.dougrussell.com and look in the OMC parts section, they have the parts drawings there.
 

Ron Everson

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 18, 2003
Messages
114
Re: Winterizing Surprise

OK, I looked a little more last night and found the plugs. They're hex head plugs painted gray like the rest of the block, just a little to the rear and lower from the freeze plugs. I appreciate the info. I also realized that draining the closed system to replace anti-freeze will involve draining the heater coil in the cabin and the coil in the hot water heater, since that system passes through both of them. That's a project for next spring.
 

Richard Petersen

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Messages
778
Re: Winterizing Surprise

Take the caked up engine to a GOOD radiator repair shop. Have them power flush the engine ONLY. They will remove the thermostat. Your headers and risers can be boiled out. Plates may be needed in place of the headers. You may have leaks when the acid and 30 mph water is raced around in the block. You may consider cleaning out the heat exchanger if it is not packed to tight with crud. They WILL get the crud out. They should have hoses long enough to do the flush with the engine in the boat.
 
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