volvo aq131a with 275 outdrive

Help!!! Im a 30 year mercruiser guy so Volvo Pentas are new to me.

I have a 1987 Barretta 16 footer witha aq 131a 4 cyl with a 275 outdrive. Basically got the boat for free and just finished deck rebuild and repaint. Checked engine for compression which was good across board (160 to 180) Replaced exh manifold, water pump, and cleaned up all electrical connections. Replaced wires, rebuilt carb., replaced alternator.

Got it running and idles good but seems to bog with heavy acceleration. Planning on replacing points with either new or electronic (hotspark or pertronix) and coil which I think will solve problems. Any opinions on which way to go??

Next major problem is with outdrive. Changed drive oil which looked very milky. Not sure how long it had been there. While running motor notice drive oil coming from mid point on outdrive. Appears to me that exhaust water must be getting into drive. Just drained new oil again and it appears milky. Bellows on drive appears to be relatively new and in good shape. Where in this outdrive could the exhaust water be getting into drive body? Water intake was from hose inside boat so not on intake side.

Thanks paul

Re: volvo aq131a with 275 outdrive

Welcome to the forum and welcome to the world of older Volvo Penta powerplants. Starting with the engine, Don S. has posted a great sticky with tons of troubleshooting information here: http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=342393. Check out the section on "reasons for not reaching WOT". THE VP engines aren't that much different from others so all the basics of fire, compression, and gas apply. Those of us with the older boats have learned that you really need to go through each system to make sure it's working right. In an older boat, fuel is allways suspect until you verify that the tank, vent, anti-syphon valve, lines, and filters are all in good shape and free from water. Base and advanced timing can allways jump up and bite you as well. You compression sounds reasonable so that's a good thing.

The electronic triggers in the distributor work well but don't fix any problems outside of the points and condenser. If you're going to go that route, you still need to make sure everything else is working as it should. With the internally resisted coil, you can bypass the inline resister.

With the outdrive, water intrusion obviously means a leak somewhere. Perform a leak test first so you know where to start. The exhaust does in fact go through the outdrive through the exhaust bellows and out through the rounded fin at the back.

In the future, it's best to use a separate thread for each problem. You'll get beter responses that way.

Let us know how things are going.

Re: volvo aq131a with 275 outdrive

Pirate, Thanks for the response. Have found loads of info here and will perform a vacuum/pressure test on this drive first.

Two additional questions for forum: Is the original Volvo Penta service manual the best info source on this outdrive? Have seen alot of feedback that the SELOC manual is too generic.

Is there a good thread on removal of the outdrive given on here with the proper steps? Cant seem to find one.

Thanks
Paul

Re: volvo aq131a with 275 outdrive

Two additional questions for forum: Is the original Volvo Penta service manual the best info source on this outdrive? Have seen alot of feedback that the SELOC manual is too generic.

Click to expand...

Yes, Seloc only uses bits and pieces from the OEM manuals, and leaves a lot out, and makes mistakes with what they do use.
Here are links to the OEM manuals you can download.

Engine http://www.4shared.com/file/64741910/25295432/230_250_251_131151171.html

Drive http://www.4shared.com/file/48536730/fa3b3311/280_to_DP-C_Drive_manual.html

No, the 275 is not specifically mentioned in the drive manual, but the repair procedures for everything is the same.

You shouldn't need to remove the complete outdrive, what exactly are you wanting to do?

Re: volvo aq131a with 275 outdrive

VP manual is certainly the best but the Seloc will do in a pinch. Unfortunately, some of the specs and drawings may be off. Here's a link to the VP site where you can come up with some information: http://http://www.volvopenta.com/volvopenta/global/en-gb/marine_leisure_engines/parts_service/publication_search/Pages/publication_search.aspx

Don't have time to do the search right now but you can search for "gearbox removal" or "upper outdrive removal" to get you to the basics of removing the outdrive. Might also try "bellows replacement" or "u-joint replacement" to get you there. Unlike Mercruiser, most of the maintenance on the 270 thru 290 outdrives is performed by just removing the upper gearbox. Removing the whole thing turns out to be rather intuitive once the upper gearbox is removed.

It sounds like you have an obvious leak between the lower and mid section or mid and upper but when doing the leak test, check the other areas as well. Forward gearbox seal, dipstick and cover o-rings, and shift shoe seals are all common bad actors. Would be frusterating to replace some o-rings only to find out you have others leaking after you put it back together.

edit - looks like my link may not have worked. Try the main Volvo Penta site and drill down through the menues to get you to the leisure and gasoline engines. From there, you should be able to find your owners manuals.

LOL - dang it Don, you're a much faster typer than I am!

Re: volvo aq131a with 275 outdrive

Gentlemen,

The drive is actually a 275A. I do not have any history on it but is is very clean with no visable damage. As I indicated, I changed the drive oil which was milky and then ran the unit using a garden hose hooked directly to hose on engine. Drive shifts easily into forward but does not shift easily or stay in reverse. I had to use screw driver on shift lever in housing to get it to spin in reverse and it would not "go in" like the forward shift. The drive seems smooth and quiet while in forward gear so I am hopeing the water in the oil is from sitting for a long period which im sure this boat did. While running, oil did start to come out of the intermidiate housing in the area of the drive reverse lock mechanism. Upon stopping and dropping the drive oil it again was milky so obviously there is a leak from the exhaust into the drive body.

So I asking what steps should I take to check the drive. I would assume to start with a pressure/vacuum check unless you think the leak is so bad that I should just do a complete reseal job on it. Any info/instructions you provide would be greatly appreciated. I am very mechanically skilled but do not have any special tools that may be required for working on this drive.

Regards
Paul

Re: volvo aq131a with 275 outdrive

Sounds like the first thing to do is adjust the shift cable IAW the manual. That may resolve the shifting issue.

There is an oil o-ring on the return pipe in the vicinity of the lock assembly and that could be leaking but if you don't do a leak test first then you're just shooting in the dark when it comes to seals. And again, once you look at the outdrive oil, water, and exhaust flowpaths, you'll see that the exhaust does indeed pass through the outdrive. It's possible that exhaust could be coming from the intermediate area into the oil return pipe but it would be a long shot to call that the source of water. When you split the case to replace the oil return pipe o-ring, you'll be replacing the large o-ring as well so that may fix that possible source.

If you had water in the gearbox at one time, it may take several oil changes to clean it up. Unless you start taking the gears apart, there really aren't any special tools needed.

We're really starting to bounce around from engine to outdrive shifting and leaks on this thread. Specific issues one at a time will help to stay on track.

Re: volvo aq131a with 275 outdrive

I would pull the upper gear box too. If there is water in the bellows, you will get water in the drive. Those bellows are also thinner than you are used to with Mercruiser. The good news, is that removing the upper gear box, and changing the bellows and gear lube (Motor oil for this drive) is takes less than an hour to do.

The 275 is covered by the drive manual I posted according to Volvo. The lower housing may look like a 270, but it's still assembled and repaired like a 280.

You can also download an owners manual for your engine and drive directly from Volvo
http://www.volvopenta.com/volvopent...lication_search/pages/publication_search.aspx . It has a lot of other info in it now shown in the service manuals.

Re: volvo aq131a with 275 outdrive

Gentlemen

Thanks for the guidance. Will stick with the drive leak in this thread as that is my major concern. Will start with pressure/vacuum check and dropping lower housing first. Will get back to you.

Thanks
Paul

Re: volvo aq131a with 275 outdrive

Why would you want to drop the lower housing?

Re: volvo aq131a with 275 outdrive

Gentlemen,

This is what I have found so far after getting my pressure/vacuum tester rig put together. After initial pressure of 10 psig applied I could hear something faintly around intermidiate housing which faded quickly. Im using a compressor source air so I have plenty of volume. Upon unit isolation (closed air supply isolation valve and removed source) the gauge held at 10psi. So it appears leak sealed it self under casing pressure. So then went to vacuum, using a compressor driven vacuum pump, and unit would not go above 3 inches. Upon closing valve vacuum dropped right off. I know unit is working as I got 20 inches vacuum when I pinched off tube. Tried to seal by spraying soap water around unit but vacuum would not come up.

So my question is what to do next? Looking at the available schematics (not to clear on exhaust water flow path) of the lower and intermidiate housings I only see the o-ring 44 in the lower unit that appears to be near or isolating from the exhaust water path. In the intermidiate housing I see tube 23 and oring 24 which appear to be raw water in and tube 33 and oring 34 which I am not sure of function. Don, you had indicated checking the upper housing but I dont see where exhaust water path comes near it. Im not sure if other items such as washers, ect are sealing surfaces within this drive.

Thanks
Paul

Re: volvo aq131a with 275 outdrive

Gentlemen,

Just to add to my last thread, I reference the drawings so I can purchase all the required seals I would need. For example, between the lower and intermediate housings I only see one oring (the oil pipe oring 44, as pirate referenced previously in #7) and no other large sealing oring (As he also referenced in #7).

So im not sure if im missing something??

Thanks Paul

Re: volvo aq131a with 275 outdrive

Gentlemen

Dropped lower unit and found evidence of water intrusion around oring 44. Surprised at the lack of any additional sealing other then the three orings in there. Dont see any evidence of exhaust water passage damage due to corrosion or galvanic action, actually very clean for its year. Don, do you recommend using any RTV when reassemblying to give additional sealing?

Going to pull upper which I assume comes out as an assembly and will perform bellows replacement while im there as I do see minor cracking. Any recommendations would be appreciated?

Again your help is greatly appreciated.

Regards
paul

Re: volvo aq131a with 275 outdrive

The o-ring you're referencing seals the opening for the shaft. That's the large one I was talking about. Now that I look at the drawings, I see I was mistaken. It doesn't appear that there is an o-ring on top of the strainer. I could have sworn there was an o-ring there and it was the same as the one on top of the tube but can't seem to find it now. On the top of the tube it's #34 on the drawing and P/N 125017.

Re: volvo aq131a with 275 outdrive

Pirate

I agree its very hard to make out some of the oring and seal placements from the schematics from this drive. Im sure its hard to find good working drawings for the Titanic also...LOL.

From the disassembly of the lower to intermidiate there are three orings or seals. One is #44 on the lower unit drawing which is the large oring, The second is # 24 on the intermidiate drawing Oring 125017 which is on the bottom of the intermediate tube which meets the screened oil inlet to the lower assembly. The third is the seal ring which is between the yoke assembly and the lower unit making up the raw water inlet pass thru. I think that washer #25 (897696) or seal ring #13 (181620). This is where im confused part wise from the drawing. This seal is on the raw water inlet so is not the source of my leak and the seal ring looks ok that was in there so I will reuse. Its more of a oblong shaped ring then a round clean oring. Please let me know if you can decifer better then me!!!

Getting ready to remove upper gear and have one question for you there, mine is the two bolt set up. Both cap screws came out fine with a little use of AEROKROIL OIL which is amazing stuff. Do you know if the stainless ring that cap screws go thru is also held in place by two additional small fasteners. I cannot get it to come out of the helmut as of yet and do not want to force it.

Thanks Paul

Re: volvo aq131a with 275 outdrive

Oil in the drive is pumped up from the lower unit via a slinger on the output shaft. The oil travels up through the same chamber as the main shaft to the gearbox and then drains down, through the strainer, back to the lower. Make sure you check that strainer for any debris. Metal shavings or babbit material in the strainer would be a bad thing!

You most definately want to replace the lower water tube o-ring (fork to lower unit). That is a part of the engine raw water supply and any leaks here can cause a loss of suction. O-rings are cheap compared to the time and expense involved in solving and fixing a future problem. Use permatex or grease to hold the o-ring onto the fork while re-installing the lower. Unless absolutely necessary, you don't want to get into disassembly of the water supply tube.

Re: volvo aq131a with 275 outdrive

Pirate

Could you figure out what the part number is for that rear oring seal (fork to lower) that is the raw water in? Hard to tell as I indicated in my last thread. Do you think it is part number 181620 or something else? Thats a $14 oring. OMG

Found nothing in stariner so thats good and tube assemblies in intermediate to lower look fine.

I ordered every except that seal which I cant positively identify. Im sure Don S. knows....

Again many thanks

Re: volvo aq131a with 275 outdrive

Could you figure out what the part number is for that rear oring seal (fork to lower) that is the raw water in?

Click to expand...

Item 24 http://www.volvopentastore.com/Inte...on_id.150340804--store_id.366--view_id.782441

Re: volvo aq131a with 275 outdrive

Don

If #24 is the rear raw water seal then what is the oring number that goes on the tube on the intermediate that meets the oil strainer in the lower (#34? only shown on top of tube)?

Also, got your thread on the helmut removal and link. As I indicated mine has the two cap screws and then the smaller side holes which do take a 1/4- 20 bolt as indicated. But I have put a good amount of force on them and that stainless disk (dont know what else to call it) doesnt seem to want to budge. I have applied some heat as well as let it soak in kroil oil. I assume they are pins in there? Just dont want to break the thing so thats why im being causious.

Re: volvo aq131a with 275 outdrive

24 is the oring that goes between the water tube at the base of the H fork and the lower unit.

Ask the helmut question in your other thread. Or no one will be able to find anything later on.