While I've got the outdrive off... shift cable?

Background Info:
My boat has a 175hp 262 4.3L v6 and an alpha 1 gen one (1990). My yoke/carrier seal started leaking the last trip out to the lake and got gear lube in the bellows and the bilge area. I have the clymer manual for my boat and have done a lot of outside reading about doing that job. My family has a combine machine shop, so I am mechanically inclined. I'll need a spanner wrench for that and the hinge pin tool. I know the bellows haven't been replaced in 7 or 8 years, so I bought that kit as well and plan on replacing those. I got the kit with an exhaust boot to save me some headache. I'd like to replace everything that will need it at one time rather than breaking down and then tearing it apart later.

Question:
The two things I am unsure whether to replace are the shift cable and the shift shaft bushings. I don't think my bellows were leaking which would ruin the shift cable, but the boat was hard to shift out of gear (into neutral) sometimes last summer. Once I got the lever to move into neutral from forward, sometimes the boat would still be slowly going forward until I shifted into reverse and back to neutral again. The boat wouldn't be moving much in neutral, but just enough to irritate a skier trying to get in position. Does this sound like linkage adjustment issues on the engine, or a sticky cable?

The reason I might do the shift shaft bushings/seals is because my gear lube was a little thinned from water intrusion when I drained after last season. Once I pulled the outdrive and got a good look at the oil mess, I could see a small amount of oil which had seeped through the top shift shaft bushing on the bellhousing, and I imagine if oil got through water certainly could. I am making a pressure tester design from here to be sure where my leak is, but if that bushing/seal, or the one below it are leaking, would water mix with my gear lube? Or just get to the shift cable?

Re: While I've got the outdrive off... shift cable?

If it was hard to shift, you should do the cable for sure. Not sure about the bushings though.

Re: While I've got the outdrive off... shift cable?

If you had a tight cable or shaft bushings the engine would be cutting out as you tried to change gear... Being stiff to get out and not coming out properly are symptoms of a shift interrupter switch not working, or out of adjustment...

Do yourself a favour and burn the clymer... (and the seloc if you have one of those too)...

Here's a real manual for your engine -> https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1TAvwZ3TjhfNWFyczBmVUE4Wlk
and one for the drive -> https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1TAvwZ3TjhfOVRUNEk0anBUR3lQYTkwcUh5RElUQQ

Chris......

Re: While I've got the outdrive off... shift cable?

Thanks for the manuals and the replies guys! Ya the engine doesn't die when I shift, so the shift interrupter switch at least isn't over grounding the engine out. I know a stiff shift cable could cause that. It may be true that the interrupter isn't getting enabled properly and therefore not slowing down the rpm's enough to disengage the gears. I am under the impression that the shift interrupter switch seldom ever goes bad? How can I run some tests on the cable and interrupter switch? Achris, are you do not see a need to do the shift shaft bushings?

Re: While I've got the outdrive off... shift cable?

If you can deppress the shift interupt switch while the engine is running it should stall. You can press on the assembly (not the swith arm or roller) to verify the switch mechanism is in adjustment as well. ( you can also use a dvm with electriacal power off set to ohms from ground to the + side if the switch if thats easier due to things beeing dissassembled) ) If the switch is out of adjustment or not working it will be hard for the drive to disengage which does sound like the problenm you described above.

The cable tends to run wet on the lower end and that is the reason for the shift shaft bushing ugrade. I am not sure how much it helps.

Pehaps the experts can add to this. I saw Don S. post a good image of this a while back & Achris has more experience than I do on most of these things as well.

Re: While I've got the outdrive off... shift cable?

For an update, I got all the old bellows off, along with the bell housing. I found a tiny hole in my shift bellows and the cable actually had gear lube about 2 feet up the core. I ordered a new quicksilver shift cable last night and also rented an axle bearing puller and slide hammer from O'Reilly auto. It looks much like the one many people have used in the threads from similar stores. My new question is about the seal behind the gimbal bearing. I cannot fit the puller ears between the bearing and seal. If I just pulled on that seal would it pull up against the bearing and come out together? I realize it would probably ruin the seal if I did that. Does anyone have similar experience?

Here is what I rented http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/PFM0/W89326.oap?pt=N0714&ppt=C0374

Re: While I've got the outdrive off... shift cable?

SeaRayKindaDay said:

For an update, I got all the old bellows off, along with the bell housing. I found a tiny hole in my shift bellows and the cable actually had gear lube about 2 feet up the core. I ordered a new quicksilver shift cable last night and also rented an axle bearing puller and slide hammer from O'Reilly auto. It looks much like the one many people have used in the threads from similar stores. My new question is about the seal behind the gimbal bearing. I cannot fit the puller ears between the bearing and seal. If I just pulled on that seal would it pull up against the bearing and come out together? I realize it would probably ruin the seal if I did that. Does anyone have similar experience?

Here is what I rented http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/PFM0/W89326.oap?pt=N0714&ppt=C0374

Click to expand...

There is no seal. That's the inner transom plate itself, and you dont want to pull on that. You rented the exact same outfit I've used in the past. Keep trying.

Re: While I've got the outdrive off... shift cable?

duped said:

There is no seal. That's the inner transom plate itself, and you dont want to pull on that. You rented the exact same outfit I've used in the past. Keep trying.

Click to expand...

Sorry, wrong... #8 is the seal he's referring to (#9 is the gimbal bearing)...



Chris.......

Re: While I've got the outdrive off... shift cable?

Maybe it wasn't the conventional method but I pulled the seal and bearing out together. Surprisingly the seal came out pretty unscathed. I may reuse it since that is a dry area and from what I gather, the seal just stops excess grease. Am I far off?

Re: While I've got the outdrive off... shift cable?

Not far off... But it also tries to keep water out if the bilge fills up...

Re: While I've got the outdrive off... shift cable?

I installed my new gimbal bearing last night and couldn't for the life of me figure out why the bearing wouldn't take grease. Every pump of grease was squeezing out between the gimbal housing and the outside of the bearing race. The bearing was seated fully. I pulled the bearing and confirmed that everything was lined up. I found the answer so I'll post the solution was for the next unlucky guy. It was an aftermarket bearing, and whoever installed the bearing in the outer race/ housing did it backwards; the grease hole in the bearing wasn't installed in the grease track. I punched the bearing out of its housing (carefully), and spun it around. Most OEM bearings sold now are sealed, and you wouldn't have this problem. Here is just one more reason why to buy OEM mercury parts. Also, most times when it won't take grease it IS because you didn't line everything up, but this is one other possibility.

As far a perfect seal goes... I know merc/quicksilver brands some that is hard to come by, and roughly $30 a can. Is this the same stuff but not re-branded and marked up? Who owns the rights to "perfect seal"?
http://www.google.com/products/cata...a=X&ei=ycO1T9vkMsaC2wWzpZXSCQ&ved=0CHcQ8wIwAw

Re: While I've got the outdrive off... shift cable?

Not a great fan of Perfect seal.. .It tends to go dry and harden.. (Maybe that's what it should do, I don't know).. I prefer a grease called 'Aqua-lube'... I've put brake caliper bolts in with it and pulled them out 6 years later (to change brake pads) and it was like they were put in the day before!

Chris.......

Re: While I've got the outdrive off... shift cable?

Some use Permatex Aviation Form a Gasket from NAPA (that's where I've seen it, anyways) as a replacement for the perfect seal.

Re: While I've got the outdrive off... shift cable?

Well I finally got the time to test the boat, and I've got a problem yet. I don't think my u joint bellow is seated and sealing properly because I watched as water dribbled into the bilge. The water was coming from about the middle of the boats aft end behind the motor. I never really could feel when I had the bellows notch and the groove on the bell housing seated during the install. I pushed that thing on a long ways when I installed it. Can you go too far on with the u joint bellows?

I pulled the outdrive about 6 hours after it was in the water yesterday and took a bunch of pictures I am hoping someone can better understand than me. Maybe water is coming through the shift cable threads. I used permatex aviation on those. The rubber outdrive o ring gasket in the bell housing was still in place like I glued it with bellows adhesive (It made quite the mess). The o-ring for the water passage is there, which I don't think was to blame, as water came in without the motor running. As waves splashed the back of the boat the trickle acted in direct correlation. I also don't have any loose hose connections on the engine or drain plug leaks as I ran the engine on muffs several times before heading to the lake. What was odd is that I could find no moisture inside the u joint bellows rubber, but there does appear to be some on the shaft where it goes into the gimbal and around/on my shift slide. All I know is that in around a half hour I took on a gallon or two of water...

Re: While I've got the outdrive off... shift cable?

More pictures:



There appears to be milky gear lube in the pictures, but I believe this may have been in the crevices of the outdrive since my original carrier seal leak and it found its way to my clean pieces. I'm not sure, but after replacing the seal the drive held pressure pretty well. In 15 hours it lost 1.5 lbs (out of 15) and after 24+ hours it was still around 13 lbs. I couldn't get any bubbles spraying with soapy water either

Re: While I've got the outdrive off... shift cable?

SeaRayKindaDay said:

More pictures:
View attachment 150981View attachment 150982

Click to expand...

Trying to click on these 2 attachments results in an error message and can not see them.

Might want to try and re-post a different way.

Mark

Re: While I've got the outdrive off... shift cable?

Bump. Could someone please chime in?

Re: While I've got the outdrive off... shift cable?

Just by looking at the pictures and not seeing any evidence of water in the u-joint bellows or any evidence of water mixing with the gimball bearing grease that the problem is not with the u-joint bellows. From the shift cable picture it does look like there is water in there. I believe the Merc manual says no more than 2 threads showing. Is that what you have? Also, how did you crimp the clamp for the shift cable bellows? Is it crimped nice and evenly?

Re: While I've got the outdrive off... shift cable?

My suspicion of the u joint bellows is dwindling. The milky color liquid was never cleaned out of the outdrive where the shift slide goes and when put in the trailering position it would run into the shift cable area on the bellhousing. The shiny stuff is the grease I coated things with. My exhaust bellows still have some water in them two days later and the u joint bellows never seemed to 6 hours after being out of the water. I didn't thread the shift cable in because I was on the other end of the cable, but my buddy said it got tight and there were about two treads left. The big end of the shift bellow has bellows adhesive and a hose clamp. The small end has a fuel line type zip tie that makes full contact. If not the shift bellows leaking I'm starting to wonder if it's leaking where the water hose comes into the boat. I am getting ready to start spraying water around the area and see if any enters the boat. Thanks for the reply

Re: While I've got the outdrive off... shift cable?

Sorry to drag this tread on, especially since the subject has changed from the title... I'm continuing on about the water leak. Here is what I found. The boat leaks when in the water, not running, and only when completely floating. A hose or pressure washer won't cause water to get in the boat. It doesn't leak around the water inlet hose thru-hull fitting. It appears dry where the steering goes to the outdrive. The leak isn't anything to do with any bellows, but the gimbal housing. I followed the leak down to where my trim pump hydraulic hoses go through the hull. Is there a gasket besides the main seal around the housing?